Looking for step thru, crank forward, PAS + throttle

[elarson]

I am looking for a step thru, crank forward, torque pedal assist that also has a half-twist or thumb throttle and the battery on the frame. I need to ride the bike in the city on paved bike paths where I will be assisting my husband who uses a wheelchair with a power add-on. I want step thru and crank forward to be able to quickly assist him if it is needed, hopefully without needing to jump off the saddle.

I want a throttle so that I can startup at low speed and maintain a very low speed without pedaling. When I am not assisting my husband I want a normal pedal assist that can handle some high bridges and city riding. I have tried a few pedal assist only bikes, i.e., Trek, Giant, Qwic, etc., but I found it difficult to startup from a stop and go as slow as I needed to.

Where I live in the Netherlands they only allow pedal assist up to 15 mph (25 kph) without a throttle. I’m fine with the speed limitation, but really think I need a throttle. I have been told that I won’t get hassled for having a throttle and using it for the purpose of assisting my husband in a wheelchair. A friend in the bike industry has offered to purchase it in the US on his next visit over, but it will make it difficult for me to test ride them. The only other option I can think of is to get a bike I can add a throttle to.

I’m not yet sure about mid- or rear-drive, suspension, etc, but do want it to be fairly light weight. I want the battery on the frame and not the back rack because I use a Burly Travoy trailer that has a hitch on the seat post. I’m not really looking for fat tires, and hope to eventually to put Schwalbe Airless tires on it. I plan to do most maintenance myself, but prefer a bike that there might be some support for in Europe for parts. I don’t really have a firm budget, and getting a bike that works for me (and my husband) is the most important thing.

Any input would be appreciated.

 

[Dewey]

What is your budget? You will also want an ebike where the speed and current limits can be changed either by the display or by reprogramming the controller, most US market ebikes are set to 20mph/32kmh or more and the current setting can help keep peak power within reasonable limits. You will also want the battery charger to work in your country, US domestic voltage is different so you will need to get a power converter and/or adapter plug. Finally what is the top speed of your husbands electric wheelchair? I know in the U.K. they are legally limited to either 4mph or 8mph, is that true for the Netherlands as well? I ask because some US market ebikes require you are already pedalling before the throttle kicks In, and some use a simple power on/off button and it seems like you need a true zero cadence start throttle.

My suggestion would be to consider converting a bicycle you can test ride in the Netherlands to make sure it fits you comfortably. Any step through from a Dutch brand like Gazelle, Batavus, Sparta, Azor etc, could be converted, or for a crank forward design consider an Electra Townie or KHS Smoothie, add balloon tires and a suspension seatpost or sprung saddle, you might need to drill the frame to mount the battery or consider putting it on a front rack or basket. Try to avoid a bike with a coaster brake like the Smoothie unless you also go with a front hub motor, but feel free to choose a donor bike with an internal gear hub as you can convert those with a front hub motor like a Bafang mini or a mid-drive kit motor with a throttle like a Bafang BBS01, both motors are widely available or can be ordered from China, reprogrammable with a laptop and USB-to-HiGo data cable, and you can choose whether or not to plug in the throttle - I rode my BBS01 for 18 months without the throttle as a pedelec before I chose to fit it recently so you can always unplug it and sell it later as a pedelec. Bafang mid-drive motors are cadence sensor only, the Tongsheng TSDZ2 has a basic torque sensor and a similar form factor to the BBS motors, or get a Bafang mini front hub motor and your choice of simple cadence PAS sensor or a bottom bracket advanced pedal torque sensor from Grin Tech ebikes.ca will thread the motor into a wheel and sell you a controller and display that will work with a throttle. If you select a Bafang mid-drive kit motor you will replace the front chain ring with a single ring which may be another reason to go with an IGH over a derailleur, or the Tongsheng has a dual chain ring option. With a mid-drive motor you also lose an enclosed chain case but could replace it with an SKS chain board, or a Hebie chain glider if you don’t need a chain tensioner. Bafang have their European Service center in Wijchen near Nijmegen.

For a pre-built cruiser with a throttle consider asking your friend to obtain in the US a Luna Smoothie, a Biktrix Stunner, or a Day 6 Journey. None of these ebikes is light weight, they all weigh roughly 50-60lb. If you can find a KHS Smoothie or Electra Townie to test ride in the Netherlands before you buy it will give you an approximation for what riding those bikes would feel like plus about 12-15lb extra weight for the motor and battery. Those ebikes all use the Bafang BBS02 mid-drive motor that can be reprogrammed but as I said is a cadence only PAS sensor. They are direct to consumer brands so your friend will have to have it delivered to him or her, which will take time, then shipped to you. Note your friend will not be permitted to bring or ship the battery by air so perhaps he/she can cut a deal on the bike minus battery and you can pay any import tax and obtain a battery and charger in the Netherlands.

 

[elarson]

Thanks for all of the good input Dewey. You have given me a lot to think over.

My budget is probably around $3000. My husband uses a Spinergy ZX-1 power add-on and a Rio Mobility Firefly power handcycle. Both can go reasonably fast, but due to visual problems we go pretty slow at a fast(ish) walking pace of about 5-6 kph, which gets a bit too much for me walking over a long distance.

I like your idea of converting a bicycle, but I think it is beyond my current capabilities. Although I can manage power mobility equipment and bicycle maintenance, I really don't want to dive that deep on the power side of things. I think adding a throttle to a setup that was already configured for it is about as far as I would want to go.

A dual voltage battery charger is on my list of requirements. I had not thought about restrictions of flying with a lithium battery though. We just flew with lithium batteries for mobility equipment and it really was a hassle. I don't think I want my friend to go through that, even if it is possible, e.g., under 300Wh. Your idea of ordering without the battery would get around this hassle.

I don't think any of the bikes I tested were with torque pedal assist. Do you think there would be any chance of it making it easier to startup at low speed and maintain a very low speed than cadence pedal assist? If so, maybe I could get rid of the idea of a throttle.

Just as a note, because this bike will be a gift from my friend in the bike industry, I want to make this as easy as possible on him. I also want to be careful about not being a jerk and getting a lot of help at a shop locally, and then not ordering it through them.

 

[Dewey]

I don't think any of the bikes I tested were with torque pedal assist. Do you think there would be any chance of it making it easier to startup at low speed and maintain a very low speed than cadence pedal assist? If so, maybe I could get rid of the idea of a throttle.

I wish I could tell you but my experience is limited to regularly riding a cadence PAS ebike and taking a short test ride on a Bosch Active Line equipped Gazelle Orange (great system). Later this week I get the chance to borrow a Gazelle Ami for a month with the Shimano Steps system, so if you ask me one month from now I could probably say for sure how I feel about a torque pedal assist system. What little I know from Justin LeMire-Elmore’s excellent description is the best systems combine sensors that read pedal pressure with multiple magnet pole’s to identify as soon as you pedal when to apply power. One thing you might like to try is Bosch ebikes have a button under the thumb selector to activate walk assist, this is much simpler than the Shimano Steps system that obliges the rider to select power level 0, hold down a button for two seconds, release, then press the button again to activate walk assist. I have used walk assist on my Bafang BBS01 to help push my bike up a ramp when I am towing a loaded trailer, I wonder if it might provide just enough pressure to help you start then you can take over pedalling, have you already taken a test ride on a Bosch ebike? Gazelle use more than one motor in the Orange, the Bosch ones have the letters HMB after them.

 

[elarson]

Interesting idea about the walk assist. I wanted it for the same reason as you when walking with a loaded trailer, but if it helps starting, that would be great. I haven't yet tested the Bosch Active Line, but it seems like a good motor. A few of the bikes I am interested in fromTrek and Cube are using it also. I really need to go test ride them.

 

[Dewey]

If I have time on Saturday at the Gazelle dealer when I pick up the Ami I'll ask if I can take a quick spin on the Orange and report back if walk assist works when riding.

 

[elarson]

That would be very nice of you -- thanks. I think even more important is if it works while sitting and not riding

If I have time on Saturday at the Gazelle dealer when I pick up the Ami I'll ask if I can take a quick spin on the Orange and report back if walk assist works when riding.

 

[elarson]

I tried a Victoria eTrekking 11.4 today with the Bosch Active Line Plus with walk assist. I was not able to use the walk assist while sitting on the bike, but was able to use it walking next to it. I'm not sure if this was because of my lack of understanding or it being calibrated for only going walking speed of 6 kph with no extra weight on the bike.
(Link Removed - No Longer Exists)

 

[Dewey]

I tried a Victoria eTrekking 11.4 today with the Bosch Active Line Plus with walk assist. I was not able to use the walk assist while sitting on the bike, but was able to use it walking next to it. I'm not sure if this was because of my lack of understanding or it being calibrated for only going walking speed of 6 kph with no extra weight on the bike.

Hmm, I read on another forum Bosch walk assist might need reprogramming to deliver the required power, but that would involve finding a sympathetic shop with the required permission to access the advanced programming settings of the controller.

Another alternative might be to acquire a Wisper 705 Torque ebike, they have a distributor in North East France if you contact Wisper in the UK they can give you details. The Wisper Torque uses a combined torque and cadence sensor plus the UK market ebike uses a throttle that is limited to 6kmh without pedalling or up to 25kmh when you pedal, you may wish to confirm that is also true for the EU market version though I suspect it is.

 

[elarson]

Interesting. I've reprogrammed mobility equipment motors, and it makes sense to me that it could be. Me thinks I could find someone willing to help me, given the reason I want to do this, and not wanting to go fast.

Also interesting about the Wisper. I have not looked into the UK market as much (the friend helping me with this is in the US). There seems to be different interpretations on the EU limitations with throttles (EN 15194), which unfortunately, most of the industry seems to be going for the lowest common denominator for risk.

The throttle ‘dilemma’

Harmonisation with EU law has had an important effect on electric bikes with ‘twist and go’ throttles that can take the bike to full speed without any pedalling at all.

From January 1 2016, the only throttles legal within the UK’s EAPC legislation are those that assist the rider without pedalling up to a maximum speed of 6 km/h (3.7 mph) – ie starting assistance only.

If the rider is rolling – but not pedalling – faster than 6km/h, the throttle cuts off. If the cyclist pedals at the same time then the throttle can still assist up to the general limit of 15.5mph.

Read more at http://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/product-news/electric-bikes-uk-law-234973#7IQi2gk7cZHQ6wyZ.99

A 6 km/h ‘twist and go’ throttle is exactly what I would like – ie starting assistance, and rolling at very low speed without pedaling.

I find no throttle laws very frustrating. It is like saying that you can not own an automatic car that goes faster than the lowest posted speed limit!

 

[Dewey]

An American brand that has twist throttle ebikes is Pedego, their nearest distributor to you is in Luxembourg. The Comfort Cruiser model comes in a step through frame style with the seatpost angled back and allows you either to lower the seat quite far down or add a seatpost suspension. It is more of a crank forward design than the Wisper but has a basic magnet PAS sensor. The handlebars are American style beach cruiser bars that are wide and sweep back and the saddle is wide and padded. However I cannot tell if their ebikes exported to Europe are fitted with a throttle or if not whether they would be prepared to retrofit one to meet your need but it might be worth talking to their European HQ in Leeds, UK, and explaining what you want and maybe they can work with the Luxembourg dealer to make it happen, the US market ebikes have a true zero cadence full power throttle so they might want to reprogram it like the Wisper if that’s possible to comply with EU regulations. Alternatively Pedego have 60 dealers across the US so your friend could buy a US version with throttle and ship it without the battery that you could then obtain through the Luxembourg dealer, top speed is a setting you can change in the display so you could tune it down to 25kmh, and your friend would have access to a wider selection of models including the 24” Comfort Cruiser that is a good height for shorter people around 5’ compared with the standard 26” wheeled Comfort Cruiser.

 

[Dewey]

I picked up the Gazelle Ami today but Metro delays made me late for work so I was unable to ask about Bosch walk assist. My first impressions of the Ami are that it is much lighter than my steel bike and the torque + cadence pedal assist does start the motor quickly once I began pedalling, the Nexus 8 IGH is very well set up, much tighter and more precise shifting than my bike's Nexus 8, I attribute this to the Ami's frame being designed for this type of drivetrain and the well engineered axle torque arm bolt tensioners on either side of the rear drop outs vs my bike's lash up using a derailleur style Alfine chain tensioner to compensate.

 

[elarson]

I appreciate all your input Dewey. I like the Pedego Comfort Cruiser, but I really think I need the battery on the frame (not the back rack) because I use a Burly Travoy trailer that has a hitch on the seat post. With a cruiser style that is low enough to stand with my feet on the ground without full dismounting I don't think there would be room on the seat post for the hitch. The trailer is something I use on almost a daily basis. I don't own a car and haul a lot of groceries, building supplies, boat gear, etc. I'm not sure what to do, other than to give up on the idea of any kind of throttle assist. It's a bit frustrating.

 

[Dewey]

I understand and agree it is frustrating given the benefit I get from being able to use the throttle at low speeds. I've been contributing a US perspective to the lively debate on the UK pedelecs forum about this.

Another suggestion I have is to consider a folding bike with an EU compliant 6kph throttle. A shop in London, Fully Charged, sells the A2B Kuo+. The description says the thumb throttle is programmed for 6mph but ask and they can probably reprogram the controller to make the throttle cut out at 6kph. With small 20" wheels there is a low stand over height, the battery is mounted behind the seatpost, so there is plenty of clearance over the rear rack to attach your Travoy trailer. Court Rye reviewed the US market version of the Kuo+ and he visited Fully Charged earlier this year and it looks like a nice shop and they provide international shipping and VAT/Tax free shopping for international customers.

 

[elarson]

I have thought about a folding bike, but find it too limiting for when I want to go distances with hauling a lot. Though I have to say, the GoCycle G3 is intriguing. Maybe I would be better to get the bike I need for most things, and then consider a scooter for when assisting with my husband using the wheelchair.

 

[Dewey]

Kymco mobility scooters look alright, I bought a used Pride mobility scooter for my Dad in the UK before he passed away, I had to replace the lead acid battery and wiring harness and I bought a front basket but Pride have been around for quite a long time so replacement parts were easy to get. I recall the top speed was a sedate 4kph and the 6km range was not great but hopefully they're better now with lithium batteries.

Re: GoCycle, I've only seen one other designer use a MonoBlade fork Mike Burrows on his 8freight cargo bike and his olympic carbon bike he co-designed with Lotus so it does look different, but I can see the appeal by making it easier to change flat tires.

 

[elarson]

Am I correct in understanding that the UK does allow ‘Twist and gos’ (throttles) as long as the power cuts out at 15.5mph? Just asking because I have not researched there so much.

 

[elarson]

Kymco mobility scooters look alright,...

My meaning was a standing scooter. Not sure what they are called, as 'scooter' seems to be used for so many vehicles in different places.

 

[elarson]

I'm a bit leary of single sided forks 'monoblades', but probably it has more to do with ignorance than reality. I know on my husband's wheelchair, that takes a lot of hard knocks with a power add-on, I just have not trusted any that we have demo'd. I also know how I ride, carrying a lot of kit, along with a dog and sometimes being wobbly that I might not be able to handle them. Yes, I smash up against curbs and do other things that probably are not so wise .

Re: GoCycle, I've only seen one other designer use a MonoBlade fork Mike Burrows on his 8freight cargo bike and his olympic carbon bike he co-designed with Lotus so it does look different, but I can see the appeal by making it easier to change flat tires.

 

[Dewey]

Am I correct in understanding that the UK does allow ‘Twist and gos’ (throttles) as long as the power cuts out at 15.5mph? Just asking because I have not researched there so much.

Yes and no...sorry, the confusion even from some British ebike companies on the U.K. pedelec forum makes it difficult to determine what is legal over there.

My understanding is that technically throttles are supposed to have a 4mph speed limit if not pedalling and perhaps up to the 15.5mph speed limit if you have to pedal as well...but Woosh, Wisper, and Brighton ebikes all sell throttle ebikes that have various controller settings to work around the regulations, in part because of the limitations of the technology specifically from the Chinese manufacturer Bafang, I would argue you won’t run into trouble with a U.K. spec throttle ebike from one of those three companies as you intend to stay at low speed.