Juiced Support - No more chat?

[Tora Harris]

So basically we figured most people will buy the 48V 13Ah version because it was cheaper. Orders are made 4-6 months before the first customer sees the bike. Effectively we have to guess what people want.

Already from the pre-orders it became clear that everyone wanted the 48V/19.2Ah and 52V/21Ah version which we made less of. These are among the biggest battery packs produced fore e-bikes and no one is making them in these kinds of numbers.

The result is production is very slow and there were some delays getting them made. But we did make more packs to catch up, and making them as fast as possible. however the actual bikes arrived before the packs.

To catch up we flew in the packs by air which is very inconsistent way to move lithium packs around and difficult to tell the customer exactly when it will arrive as it could have many delays and we do not know exactly our selves.

We decided to go ahead and ship the 13Ah version before some of the 19.2 although some some of the 13Ah versions were ordered later. Otherwise we will have too many bikes stacked up when they could be getting out.

Other things causing delays is the rack supplier making the custom rack a little lower than spec which would not normally be a problem, but we do include the fenders so the fender made noise over bumps when it hit the underside of the rack. This is unacceptable to have the bike to go out to the customers like that.

The part to address the issue was manufactured and sent from china to be installed on every bike which caused some delays and bogged down customer support and shipping of service parts.

Additionally customer support got pounded with processing canceled orders, stressed out customers calling and cursing out our reps and also posting nasty stuff on social media and else where.

Another issue is some of the bikes got damaged in shipment due to the way they are packed, the big size, and the rough nature of UPS package shipments. We adjusted the packing to be right at the limit of the UPS size, but some bikes dinged for over size charge of over $300/unit. So for some shipments we used freight carriers which are much more gentle on the product and do not have limitations on size, but are very inconsistent on the delivery dates and poor tracking capability relative to UPS.

This lead to the shipping department getting pounded with filing claims and call after call with stressed out customers cursing out our reps and also posting nasty stuff on social media and else where.

We recently pushed back estimates on the ship dates for 19.2Ah and larger bikes for new orders. We also disabled the ability to even pre-order even if you want to pay in full. We provided the stock notification signup and will send out the mail to all the customers when the particular version that they want becomes available.

This lead to the sales department getting pounded with call after call with stressed out customers cursing out our reps and also posting nasty stuff on social media and else where.

We have now several thousand bikes on order, but ramping up takes 4-6 months to see the result regardless of how much cash is thrown at the problem. The wait times will get shorter and faster until you can just order the bike you want and it ships next day. And we are reducing the pre-orders accepted until we are sure the bike can arrive and be delivered in a timely manner with our desired specifications. Some customers already got the bikes and all indications is that it lives up to the hype and is an incredible product without any equal at the moment.

Some parts used on our bikes are difficult to get. To increase the production speed and reduce lead times we could switch to more generic off the shelf components, battery packs, pedal sensors etc. But that will not result in a great product for the Juiced brand.

Juiced Bikes is a very controversial and open company so every single thing is dissected on the internet often times with incomplete information. People have extreme interest in not only our products, but also the business in general. Everything we do is to make the best possible product and deliver it to the customer successfully so that they have an amazing time on the bike.

The recent trend is to first post on social media any question or issue BEFORE contacting customer support then repost every response from the rep. This is very stressful to the person trying to do the service especially if they are new, but that is just the nature of the internet and we are in the process of upgrading the tools and infrastructure to better handle the new way people like to communicate.

 

[NeilCruz]

@John from Connecticut

Regarding "Juiced has shown little":
Juiced did offer those who ordered before mid march the option of getting their bike but with a temporary 13ah battery. Its not like they haven't tried to work with us. And when large car companies such as Hyundai have trouble with getting batteries - is it really so unbelievable that there are significant supply chain complications.

There have been posts here of people, recently, who had minor issues. They documented the issues and had fast support (either local bike shop and juice reimbursed or directly with juiced).

Regarding the delivery date -
I don't know enough about Lenny's ordering time or such (other than some recollection about him being upset that he could no longer order the Hyperfat) to be able to intelligently comment but surely Lenny was told this was a pre-order BEFORE he ordered.

 

[Bruce Arnold]

I fully agree with you and juiced Bikes needs to fix things immediately or pack it in. My order was for a RCS late May delivery but that’s not happening the email I received was when the batteries and bikes arrive than my bike will ship out, That is Such a Pathetic reply from Juiced Bikes. I paid in full with a shipping date of late May and I expect Juiced to keep their promise! No More Excuses. Juiced is a Crowd Funded Company and not operating in a professional manner. The customer is under par and so is the tech support. Juiced can’t delivery paid for bikes to their customers and forget about needing tech support with a bad part ! You won’t get the defective part replaced for months just by the fact that they don’t even have bikes to fill orders. Juiced got in over their head and they don’t treat their customers with respect. Like you said @Rooster juiced bikes won’t have any customers. We need more dissatisfied customers to speak out so Juiced gets their blank together.

Ask for your money back, leave Juiced in your rear view mirror, move on. There are other bikes nearly as good for the same money. I think I'd rather have a bike than an ongoing source of frustration.

 

[Bruce Arnold]

So basically we figured most people will buy the 48V 13Ah version because it was cheaper. Orders are made 4-6 months before the first customer sees the bike. Effectively we have to guess what people want.

Already from the pre-orders it became clear that everyone wanted the 48V/19.2Ah and 52V/21Ah version which we made less of. These are among the biggest battery packs produced fore e-bikes and no one is making them in these kinds of numbers.

The result is production is very slow and there were some delays getting them made. But we did make more packs to catch up, and making them as fast as possible. however the actual bikes arrived before the packs.

To catch up we flew in the packs by air which is very inconsistent way to move lithium packs around and difficult to tell the customer exactly when it will arrive as it could have many delays and we do not know exactly our selves.

We decided to go ahead and ship the 13Ah version before some of the 19.2 although some some of the 13Ah versions were ordered later. Otherwise we will have too many bikes stacked up when they could be getting out.

Other things causing delays is the rack supplier making the custom rack a little lower than spec which would not normally be a problem, but we do include the fenders so the fender made noise over bumps when it hit the underside of the rack. This is unacceptable to have the bike to go out to the customers like that.

The part to address the issue was manufactured and sent from china to be installed on every bike which caused some delays and bogged down customer support and shipping of service parts.

Additionally customer support got pounded with processing canceled orders, stressed out customers calling and cursing out our reps and also posting nasty stuff on social media and else where.

Another issue is some of the bikes got damaged in shipment due to the way they are packed, the big size, and the rough nature of UPS package shipments. We adjusted the packing to be right at the limit of the UPS size, but some bikes dinged for over size charge of over $300/unit. So for some shipments we used freight carriers which are much more gentle on the product and do not have limitations on size, but are very inconsistent on the delivery dates and poor tracking capability relative to UPS.

This lead to the shipping department getting pounded with filing claims and call after call with stressed out customers cursing out our reps and also posting nasty stuff on social media and else where.

We recently pushed back estimates on the ship dates for 19.2Ah and larger bikes for new orders. We also disabled the ability to even pre-order even if you want to pay in full. We provided the stock notification signup and will send out the mail to all the customers when the particular version that they want becomes available.

This lead to the sales department getting pounded with call after call with stressed out customers cursing out our reps and also posting nasty stuff on social media and else where.

We have now several thousand bikes on order, but ramping up takes 4-6 months to see the result regardless of how much cash is thrown at the problem. The wait times will get shorter and faster until you can just order the bike you want and it ships next day. And we are reducing the pre-orders accepted until we are sure the bike can arrive and be delivered in a timely manner with our desired specifications. Some customers already got the bikes and all indications is that it lives up to the hype and is an incredible product without any equal at the moment.

Some parts used on our bikes are difficult to get. To increase the production speed and reduce lead times we could switch to more generic off the shelf components, battery packs, pedal sensors etc. But that will not result in a great product for the Juiced brand.

Juiced Bikes is a very controversial and open company so every single thing is dissected on the internet often times with incomplete information. People have extreme interest in not only our products, but also the business in general. Everything we do is to make the best possible product and deliver it to the customer successfully so that they have an amazing time on the bike.

The recent trend is to first post on social media any question or issue BEFORE contacting customer support then repost every response from the rep. This is very stressful to the person trying to do the service especially if they are new, but that is just the nature of the internet and we are in the process of upgrading the tools and infrastructure to better handle the new way people like to communicate.

Thank you for the informative update on the situation, @Tora Harris.

 

[dean1]

So basically we figured most people will buy the 48V 13Ah version because it was cheaper. Orders are made 4-6 months before the first customer sees the bike. Effectively we have to guess what people want.

Already from the pre-orders it became clear that everyone wanted the 48V/19.2Ah and 52V/21Ah version which we made less of. These are among the biggest battery packs produced fore e-bikes and no one is making them in these kinds of numbers.

Of course that does not explain delays for bikes with 12.8 Ah battery

 

[Asher]

Great to hear a frank and open discussion of the situation. I'm sorry to hear about your workers being cussed out and abused. When there is some downtime, fleshing out the FAQ section may help, as I know I've gotten somewhat unhelpful responses from customer support on minor issues before. You could even crowdsource FAQ responses - @Reid alone could answer them all . An owner's manual is also needed.

One thing to remember is that people are angry precisely because the alternatives are so scarce, expensive, or inferior. It's like someone angry that the free parking spot they want is taken, but they won't pay $10 for an equivalent spot. You pay one way or another, with time and uncertainty or with money, at least until Juiced ramps up its supply.

It's pretty incredible how Juiced is offering a product that almost no one else (except Stromer at ~3x the price) is offering. With a ~1 kwh battery like Juiced offers, range anxiety, for most use cases, is simply a non-issue. To Tora's point about underestimating demand for bigger pricier batteries, I think Juiced would also do well to offer more premium parts, like a Deore drivetrain, as it does more volume that can sustain a bigger model range. People want a good value, but it need not be low in price.

 

[Lenny7118]

Your points seem valid. The fact that you and others have pre-paid in full and the delivery date is 'uncertain' would trouble me greatly. Depending on one's location, some folks will lose significant nice weather cycling time. That would be a deal breaker for me. What happens
should the bike arrive with a component damaged or not working ?

From what you and others have said Juiced has shown little incentive to retain you as a customer during this difficult period. At this
point I'm assuming you and others still have the option to cancel your credit card payment ? Thus I'd think you still have some leverage. That does not seem to appreciated by Juiced.

Once the deal is done and the bikes are delivered, what incentive is left to provide quality customer/technical service should it be needed based on the pre-sales situation ? Just my two cents.

John from CT

I fully agree and to let all customers that are waiting on orders , well Juiced Bikes just released a new video showing a New Bike called the Scambler... Juice Bikes get your Act together! You can’t even fill current customers orders including mine for the RCS that was promised mid May !!! and you are working on a new model bike ! What the heck man.

 

[Lenny7118]

So basically we figured most people will buy the 48V 13Ah version because it was cheaper. Orders are made 4-6 months before the first customer sees the bike. Effectively we have to guess what people want.

Already from the pre-orders it became clear that everyone wanted the 48V/19.2Ah and 52V/21Ah version which we made less of. These are among the biggest battery packs produced fore e-bikes and no one is making them in these kinds of numbers.

The result is production is very slow and there were some delays getting them made. But we did make more packs to catch up, and making them as fast as possible. however the actual bikes arrived before the packs.

To catch up we flew in the packs by air which is very inconsistent way to move lithium packs around and difficult to tell the customer exactly when it will arrive as it could have many delays and we do not know exactly our selves.

We decided to go ahead and ship the 13Ah version before some of the 19.2 although some some of the 13Ah versions were ordered later. Otherwise we will have too many bikes stacked up when they could be getting out.

Other things causing delays is the rack supplier making the custom rack a little lower than spec which would not normally be a problem, but we do include the fenders so the fender made noise over bumps when it hit the underside of the rack. This is unacceptable to have the bike to go out to the customers like that.

The part to address the issue was manufactured and sent from china to be installed on every bike which caused some delays and bogged down customer support and shipping of service parts.

Additionally customer support got pounded with processing canceled orders, stressed out customers calling and cursing out our reps and also posting nasty stuff on social media and else where.

Another issue is some of the bikes got damaged in shipment due to the way they are packed, the big size, and the rough nature of UPS package shipments. We adjusted the packing to be right at the limit of the UPS size, but some bikes dinged for over size charge of over $300/unit. So for some shipments we used freight carriers which are much more gentle on the product and do not have limitations on size, but are very inconsistent on the delivery dates and poor tracking capability relative to UPS.

This lead to the shipping department getting pounded with filing claims and call after call with stressed out customers cursing out our reps and also posting nasty stuff on social media and else where.

We recently pushed back estimates on the ship dates for 19.2Ah and larger bikes for new orders. We also disabled the ability to even pre-order even if you want to pay in full. We provided the stock notification signup and will send out the mail to all the customers when the particular version that they want becomes available.

This lead to the sales department getting pounded with call after call with stressed out customers cursing out our reps and also posting nasty stuff on social media and else where.

We have now several thousand bikes on order, but ramping up takes 4-6 months to see the result regardless of how much cash is thrown at the problem. The wait times will get shorter and faster until you can just order the bike you want and it ships next day. And we are reducing the pre-orders accepted until we are sure the bike can arrive and be delivered in a timely manner with our desired specifications. Some customers already got the bikes and all indications is that it lives up to the hype and is an incredible product without any equal at the moment.

Some parts used on our bikes are difficult to get. To increase the production speed and reduce lead times we could switch to more generic off the shelf components, battery packs, pedal sensors etc. But that will not result in a great product for the Juiced brand.

Juiced Bikes is a very controversial and open company so every single thing is dissected on the internet often times with incomplete information. People have extreme interest in not only our products, but also the business in general. Everything we do is to make the best possible product and deliver it to the customer successfully so that they have an amazing time on the bike.

The recent trend is to first post on social media any question or issue BEFORE contacting customer support then repost every response from the rep. This is very stressful to the person trying to do the service especially if they are new, but that is just the nature of the internet and we are in the process of upgrading the tools and infrastructure to better handle the new way people like to communicate.

You said the rack was a problem now ! Well you sent out bikes that have that rack and no complaints have been read from customers that have the RCS with supposedly a rack problem.

 

[kev312]

We recently pushed back estimates on the ship dates for 19.2Ah and larger bikes for new orders. We also disabled the ability to even pre-order even if you want to pay in full. We provided the stock notification signup and will send out the mail to all the customers when the particular version that they want becomes available.

Thank you Tora for the updates. Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but it looks like the RCS is still available for pre-order with the larger battery, on the website. I ordered an RCS w/the 48v 19.2Ah about three weeks ago and was charged the full amount. I chatted with a CS rep on the site and was told that everything was on schedule and that I could expect my bike to ship in mid to late June - just wondering if this is an accurate statement?

If orders are that back-logged, why not just create a waiting list with a small deposit? I think folks will be more understanding and accepting of a TBD order & ship date, if its presented that way. Hopefully things are getting a little more under control at Juiced, and all June pre-orders will ship in June.

 

[NeilCruz]

@Lenny7118

Um, I read Tora saying the word "Pack" .. did he also say the RCS's have a problem with the RACK? Huh?

I said that "I cant't intelligently comment" -- myself , not you.

And can you link the video to the scrambler - I didn't find such.

Thanks

 

[Barry S]

And can you link the video to the scrambler - I didn't find such.

Thanks

Here's the Scrambler link.

 

[Lenny7118]

@Lenny7118

Um, I read Tora saying the word "Pack" .. did he also say the RCS's have a problem with the RACK? Huh?

I said that "I cant't intelligently comment" -- myself , not you.

And can you link the video to the scrambler - I didn't find such.

Thanks

Hi, I’ll try to get the link. It’s on YouTube. I got an email from Juiced about 2 hours ago when they posted the video. It under Juiced Bikes videos on you tube.

 

[milliamp]

One thing I learned after working tech support is people rarely head to the forums with "all is well, nothing to report here" kinds of posts. Forum posts on a specific brand inherently skew negative. I read posts but rarely jumped into the mosh pits of stewing anger for the same reasons employees at game companies rarely identify themselves as employees on forums

I have a couple Juiced bikes and I'm happy with them. I'm honestly just reading the forums to see how things are going because I get a lot of comments about my HF1000. I let people drive it and a lot of people ask me about getting one. I haven't seen anyone get off it without a smile. I love the HF1000 but my current answer is to tell them the RipCurrent is pretty close and get one of those instead because the HF1000 is sold out.

Those racks for the RipCurrent that were a bit too low could be useful for the HF1000 folks that don't have to worry about clearing fenders if you want to keep a batch of them around for that purpose. In terms of funding I honestly think Tora would have a chance of getting on shark tank if he needed the financial capital for bulk orders to help catch up with demand.

I can't speak for why other people are interested in Tora and Juiced rather than just the products they sell but I can say I'm partly in the fanboy camp largely because I think what Tora is doing with Juiced has more potential to disrupt the ebike industry than almost anyone and the huge volume of RipCurrent Pre-orders is evidence of that.

 

[dean1]

,,,, Juiced Bikes just released a new video showing a New Bike called the Scambler... Juice Bikes get your Act together! You can’t even fill current customers orders including mine for the RCS that was promised mid May !!! and you are working on a new model bike ! What the heck man.

"All built on our 'class-leading' 52 Volt battery platform..." Need I say more? At least they can say with accuracy it is a pre-order:
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/the-scrambler-choose-your-e-bike-adventure/coming_soon/pies

 

[Asher]

Totally agree about disrupting the ebike industry. If Juiced can solve it's supply and support issues, it will force everyone else to put batteries worth a damn on their bike, without charging $6k for it.

We're also at a point where most people have never used ebikes before, so any decent one will feel amazing. Over time as people get educated, they'll see the value in a bigger battery bike.

 

[dean1]

One thing I learned after working tech support is people rarely head to the forums with "all is well, nothing to report here" kinds of posts. Forum posts on a specific brand inherently skew negative. I read posts but rarely jumped into the mosh pits of stewing anger for the same reasons employees at game companies rarely identify themselves as employees on forums

I have a couple Juiced bikes and I'm happy with them. I'm honestly just reading the forums to see how things are going because I get a lot of comments about my HF1000. I let people drive it and a lot of people ask me about getting one. I haven't seen anyone get off it without a smile. I love the HF1000 but my current answer is to tell them the RipCurrent is pretty close and get one of those instead because the HF1000 is sold out.

True what you say about forum posts. But it is also true that for every negative post there are a lot more that could be posted that don't get posted. However, I don't think anyone here is knocking the bike itself, or at least there is no pattern of negative opinions of a technical nature. On a personal note, I ordered one precisely because of the technical reviews here. I am confident its a great ebike, especially for the price.

The grumblings you see are due to customer relations and how JB does business. When I placed my order I was ready and willing to wait 6-8 weeks for the bike. I am now beginning to rethink this: With all of the issues surrounding the fulfillment of orders, the next move by JB is to release a new bike, a bike that uses the same parts that Tora blames for the delays delivering the established models. As someone on the outside looking in I believe this to be an unwise decision. Hoping it has no affect on current "pre-orders"

Tick tock

 

[Rooster]

"All built on our 'class-leading' 52 Volt battery platform..." Need I say more? At least they can say with accuracy it is a pre-order:
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/the-scrambler-choose-your-e-bike-adventure/coming_soon/pies

That cracks me up, " our class leading 52v platform " Luna Cycles has had 52v platform for a while now and juiced is taking credit for being the first, typical. Everyone is down on Luna for being all about speed but it's okay for juiced to jump on the bandwagon, juiced bikes is the company that is going to screw up the ebike industry.

 

[Asher]

With all of the issues surrounding the fulfillment of orders, the next move by JB is to release a new bike, a bike that uses the same parts that Tora blames for the delays delivering the established models. As someone on the outside looking in I believe this to be an unwise decision. Hoping it has no affect on current "pre-orders"

Tick tock

It sounds like it's mostly a matter of the batteries. I'm hoping that Juiced is starting to err on the side of caution in terms of battery supply.

 

[Jtoberbauer]

A lot of people seem to be focused on the pre-order delivery problem. Your real concern should be once you get the bike, and you have a problem, getting support is near impossible right now. I have been sending emails and calling in with very little response other than basic troubleshooting that I've already done, because there are FAQs and Forums. My bike was great for 3 weeks, then the battery started shutting down after a few minutes to few seconds of load. I've done everything I can to troubleshoot myself short of doing something to void the warranty. The bike is completely unridable.

So imagine that once you get your bike after waiting for months, you have to wait for more months to get it fixed.

Don't get me a wrong, I LOVE the CCS. But warranty service to EXISTING customers should be prioritized. Its really not that hard and will go along way towards maintaining customer goodwill and referral business. I want to recommend Juiced, but right now you should buy from your LBS.

 

[Reid]

A lot of people seem to be focused on the pre-order delivery problem. Your real concern should be once you get the bike, and you have a problem, getting support is near impossible right now. I have been sending emails and calling in with very little response other than basic troubleshooting that I've already done, because there are FAQs and Forums. My bike was great for 3 weeks, then the battery started shutting down after a few minutes to few seconds of load. I've done everything I can to troubleshoot myself short of doing something to void the warranty. The bike is completely unridable.

So imagine that once you get your bike after waiting for months, you have to wait for more months to get it fixed.

Don't get me a wrong, I LOVE the CCS. But warranty service to EXISTING customers should be prioritized. Its really not that hard and will go along way towards maintaining customer goodwill and referral business. I want to recommend Juiced, but right now you should buy from your LBS.

My CCS did that within the first week, early January of this year.

The battery started shutting off within a very short time. And within a couple more days the battery would not work at all.

Juiced quickly sent out a replacement. Won't they do that for you? I don't get it! A battery cutting out, and mine showed NO BARS on its status indicator as soon as any load was put to it, and the battery shut off, is clearly a defective battery.

Have not had any issue at all with the second battery.

FWIW...