Is this a good deal? / Seeking Recommendations and Questions

[CoolHandLuke]

I moved to a new state with nicer weather, and I have discovered my love for biking. I haven't biked in years, been biking on an old cruiser bike since I've moved.

Purposes and what I'm looking for:

• Mostly for exercise not commuting, I plan to pedal with assist off until I get tired.
• I moved to a state with sometimes rough winters. I might want to bike in the winter. I tried a fat bike at a LBS, and I wasn't a fan I must say. Really too big for my liking. So, I'm thinking thicker tires but not fat and get studded or something if I want to ride in the winter.
• Mid-drive - I live in a mostly flat area, there are some hills that I may want to go on though that being said.
• Torque sensor
• 75% Road - 25% Trail I would estimate.
• I like to tinker with electronics(software). So, a bike with an app that can customize sensitivity etc. is a plus.
• Budget 3k, willing to go more if convinced.
• Throttle a plus not necessary.
• Open to building a bike down the road but not right now, right now I want to exercise and not spend a lot of time doing that.
• Probably bring it to LBS for maintenance until I learn how/open to learning how to maintain it myself.
• Maintenace minimal.
• Comfortable for exercise

Yes, there are LBS around me and I have gone to some but not all. I plan on going to two more this weekend to try some more bikes. 1 shop has already told me they will work on any bikes if I buy it online. I want to try as many as I can.

That being said I found this bike:
https://www.avadar.com/product/avadar-c3-sport - Apply $300 coupon and you're at $1680.00 - Sale ends end of month. Is this a good deal?

My questions are:

1. If I get this bike, can I convert it to a belt and IGH down the road? Or any bike for that matter? Sounds like I want a belt and IGH for winters.
2. Is this bike https://lunacycle.com/x2-enduro-rockshox-edition/ overkill for a beginner? I ask because I like the customization aspects of it, the app, controller, etc.
3. Can I put a Hammerhead Karoo 2 on any bike?
4. The bikes down below good for winter?

Other bikes that I like and are considering:
vvolt Proxima
vvolt sirius
evelo atlas
Luna Stealth - I like the idea of light. I know these other bikes are heavier
Voltbike Enduro - (I tried a full suspension for the first time at a LBS and I loved it even for the road. I know FS not the most efficient for speed but I'm looking for comfortable while exercising.)
Other bikes that have a belt and IGH.

Thanks for your time and appreciate any input.

 

[Cody_Powerbikes.com]

Hello! I an usually not a good salesman but I can try to offer a few pointers. To your interest in Mid-Drives, I would agree that those would be a great option, not necessarily that they are better than hub drives, however in my line of work, I found they handle heavy loads better. This is because you can utilize the cassette gears to limit the stresses on the motor while it's turning that rear wheel (kind of like you would shift into your granny gears on a normal bike for steep hills). A major consideration is which ever brand you end up choosing, make sure to call your local bikes shops to verify that they will work on and can repair common issues with that brand.

I know I didn't touch on all your questions, but I hope those couple of points help you out!

 

[WattsUpDude]

That Avadar looks like a nice value if you're not taking it off jumps. The components aren't great but they're serviceable and can be upgraded as they wear. It looks to have the Bofeili middrive that the Luna Stealth and some of N+ bikes use.

 

[indianajo]

Avadar is too new to have a brand forum so who knows what the non-electric components are? Same as a $200 Diamondback or Pacific kiddie bike? I broke a rear axle on the Diamondback at my enormous 180 lb. I don't jump curbs or picnic tables. Stupid cheap 6 speed shimano axle The Pacific the rear axle came unscrewed & dropped the balls on the road. Push home time. Stupid cheapo design, shimano 7 speed, no lock nut. the Pacific crank wore out in 4000 miles and would not come off for replacement. Both bikes threw me on my chin multiple times. avadar has a 250 w motor. I really liked 1300 w geared hub motors, ebikling, and 1000 w mac12t, that would carry me & 80 lb groceries up 15% grades without pedaling @ 8 mph. Now due to Shanghai shutdown I have a used 500 w bafang motor that will assist me up the grades at 1 mph if I pedal really hard in 32:28 ratio. I'm 160 lb now.
You Need a mid-drive if you are climbing more than 1000' in an hour. Mac said that would burn the windings in a geared hub motor. I climb 80 hills in 30 miles twice a week in summer, some up to 15% grade, in 2.4 to 5 hours. With 60 lb groceries on the uphill leg. Put your money in the steel and aluminum rims, spokes, cables, cranks, so you won't have to adjust & replace them all the time. Mid-drives can also last >15000 miles, $200-300 hub drives need replacement at ~5000 miles. My most recent hub drives were $35 + freight, from the scrapped Uber fleet. Cost of mid drives, chain replacement 2-5 times as often as hub drive, a display that keeps you from turning the bike upsides down to change a tube, patented batteries that cost $$$$ if one is stolen. Most mid-drives you drag the motor with your foot pedaling unpowered: exception yamaha & brose, top of the line (4th increment) bosch. Mostly no throttle on mid-drives except bafang. I have to have a throttle for those months when I can hardly walk due to knee damage by the US Army. You may be healthier and fine without one.
Voltbike with dealer support sounds like a starter. They have 105 posts on known problems thread. Better than larger Rad or Aventon. Internet bikes you are on your own unless the driveby service can reach you. One internet hub drive bike with only one known problem today is blixbike. They are at least 5 years old.
I received a good battery from Luna in 2018. I received a dead variable charger in 2019 with a Mac12t motor that the clutch slipped 1 time out of 10 out of the box. Warrenty return? Deteriorated to 2 times out of 3 in 4000 miles. As the mac12t was the last one in the USA I didn't argue with them. Mac12t was really fun while it lasted, torquey, fast acceleration through short green lights (I cross 6 lanes with a divider 2 times) , no drag when i wanted to pedal unpowered.

 

[TrevorB]

Bikes have to be design for beltdrive so it's not thing you can retrofit to any bike. IGH with single speed chain and tensioner can be fitted to any derailleur bike. While exposed single speed chain isn't maintenance free it's lot more forgiving of neglect. Besides lasting considerably longer than multispeed chains, they are very strong and cheap. The sprocket that goes on IGH are also very cheap <$10.

 

[AHicks]

Avadar opinion: small battery, small motor, many color displays wash out when ridden in direct sunlight, relatively unknown company with no track record (thinking warranty and support).

There's enough already written on the Lunacycle. You should have no trouble finding research on that. Other than that, I would struggle with the extra layer of complexity and weight by the rear suspension on a bike that will be ridden mostly "on road".

Can't stop looking at the Evelo Atlas myself. Biggest complaint there is they've been putting off delivery, a month at a time, for quite some time now. It would seem to me like a bike they're serious about producing would be on a little more solid ground when it comes to production/delivery dates? That and they want it fully paid for to put you in line.....

A bike you haven't mentioned would be the Rize RX

Rize RX: Unleash the Ultimate Power with the Most Powerful E-Bike Mid-Drive Motor

Discover the Rize RX, the e-bike with the most powerful mid-drive motor on the market. Experience unmatched torque, comfort, and extended range up to 80 miles. Embark on unforgettable off-road adventures with our robust 52v system and 1000w Bafang motor. Your journey to the wild starts here...

rizebikes.com

Or the Rize MD

Master Every Terrain with Rize MD eBike | Ultimate Adventure Companion

Unlock the full potential of your adventures with the Rize MD eBike. Designed for stability, comfort, and versatility, it's perfect for conquering any terrain. Double your exploration range with our Dual Battery. Start your limitless journey today!

rizebikes.com

Pretty much the same bike with the difference being in just how much power would you like?
You mentioned you are familiar with controller programming. That being the case, you should also want to come up to speed making yourself familiar with the differences in the CANbus and UART communication proto call if you haven't already. This is a giant rabbit hole so not going to get into it here. Plenty available elsewhere. I THINK the Rize MD is still UART, but you would want to make sure.

Also, the M600 powered Evelo Atlas is CANbus, but a few guys are pretty close to having that code cracked to the point where they are able to make some changes FWIW.