Is there new speed regulations coming???

[Ken M]

I just noticed this statement on Juiced Cycles website for the Hyperfat 1100 (an ebike with an "unlocked" assist mode capable of upwards of 35mph): "Due to the high power motor and high speeds, this bike is designed for non-public roads only." Their earlier disclaimers use to single out the "unlocked" assist mode as not being allowed but not it seems to apply to any use of the bike. Many ebike brands sell models with "unlocked / offroad" modes that assist to speeds higher than 20mph and even the class 3 speed of 28mph (albeit with a disclaimer that it's not a legal mode on public roads / bike paths / bike lanes in most states.

I'm sure most of the buyers of this bike are riding this bike for commutes on public streets / bike paths / bike lanes and typically in the regulation compliant modes. On open as safe sections of roads I think anyone would likely "unlock" the top speed so they could save time on their commute.

I'm just wondering if anyone knows if new regulations are coming because it was always my understanding the federal pedelec regulation allowed for no assist speed limit so long as the rider was pedaling (I know some states have gone outside of their "usage" only regulations for ebikes and set assist speed limits which will eventually result in some form of litigation).

 

[Ken M]

Similar topic was discussed here: https://electricbikereview.com/forums/threads/thinking-strongly-about-ordering-the-ccx.26177/

Also, I don't think there is a regulation that says no assist limit as long as rider is pedalling.
That's like saying assist can be up to 100 mph as long as rider is pedalling. Although if the limit is 750W, that's highly unlikely.
But the limit (750W) is usually nominal power, not maximum.

I think everywhere you go, the limit is normally 20mph or 28mph.

Except in the Province of Manitoba, Canada
https://pedegoelectricbikes.ca/are-electric-bikes-legal-in-canada/
As long as the bike does not reach 50km/h (31mph) and the rider is 16 years old, you do not need a license (it also says the rider should be in a process of getting a license)

The "750W motor max" federal regulation is nebulous because it's merely a motor rating (not the actual drive system wattage...although that may have been the intent but lawmakers don't know the difference). With many of the companies selling bikes with drive systems with peak power above 750W I have no idea how this call / will be corrected. It should not be "corrected" because we need human scale transportation and in some cases (like for cargo bikes) having more power is an allowance that makes them feasible and effective. For just personal ebikes it's unlikely we'll see any drive systems over 2000W because more power is not needed and would just drive up the battery capacity/cost with very little added merit (a 2000W direct drive hub motor and a lower power geared hub motor will provide enough assist for a sustained speed around 35mph for most riders and few will ever want/need a faster ebike). The issue with many of the current mid drive Class 3 ebikes is that it takes a lot of rider effort to sustain 28mph because the gearing is a factor with mid-drives at high speeds (a lot of mechanical inefficiency going from a large front to a small rear chain ring).

I suggest everyone read and truly attempt to understand the federal ebike regulation (as written, not the biased interpretations you can read .... like mine) because I believe it totally leaves open the assist speed on pedelecs (it does limit the assist on throttle controlled assist to 20mph). I believe the 28mph pedelec limit that is part of People for Bikes recommended "model" state legislation that many states have adopted or are in the process of adopting came from Europe (probably pushed by the mid drive motor producers as much as anything).

I believe the CPSC does not allow states to redefine an ebike (it's part of the regulation) so they are essentially supposed to focus on use. But the way I read it, if they allow ebike usage then so long as the bike is compliant with the federal regulation it can't be restricted from the usage allowance (some states are not allowing Class 3 ebikes on some paths which I think is ??? legislation).

I tend to think all bike riders (except for professionals when racing) automatically limit their riding speed to something safe. The "comfortable" top speed is not the same for everyone but most riders on traditional road bikes do hit speeds probably into the mid 30s on most rides (going downhill for sure and I've hit that speed on flats without assist). What I'm trying to say is that 99% of the time top riding speeds are merely regulated by the rider because they don't want to get hurt. I have a robust hybrid ebike with Schwalbe Moto X 27.5 x 2.4 urban tires that is very stable at speeds in 28-35mph range when I'm riding but in reality all it does is allow me to retain those speeds that I simply can't on a traditional bike - my top speed is not faster, I just do it for a longer time on an ebike when the conditions are safe of coarse.

 

[Ken M]

Here's what I believe is the actual CPSC ebike regulatory text:

The Consumer Product Safety Commission’s (CPSC) definition of a “bicycle” to include “low speed electric bicycles” which is defined as a “two- or three-wheeled vehicle with fully operable pedals and an electric motor of less than 750 watts (1 h.p.), whose maximum speed on a paved level surface, when powered solely by such a motor while ridden by an operator who weighs 170 pounds, is less than 20 mph.”

I know many people seem to claim that ebike speed when the rider is pedaling is also limited to 20mph, but I have no clue how they can just pull that context / interpretation out of thin air - it's simply not in the definition.

Note: Notice how the definition references "an electric motor of less than 750W." In reality virtually any motor can be specified to be 750W depending on the test / use conditions (temp., speed, load, etc.). The good news for riders in the US, this poor definition of motor power is allowing all manufactures to claim 750W nominal and have much higher peak drive system power. It's also happening in Europe but I'm not sure how iron clad their regulations are regarding motor and/or drive system power limits.

 

[Ken M]

I want to add more confusion on this specification. The speed limit when powered solely by the motor (i.e. essentially a throttle ebike commonly referred to as a Class 2 ebike in many states) does not state how much additional loading could be on the bike. If I tested the bike with a 170lb rider with 150lbs of additional load (let's say I'm on a loaded cargo bike) and it only achieves 20mph is that a compliant ebike if the weight is removed and it achieves a faster speed.

Lawyers are just sitting around waiting for the litigation on the ambiguity of the CPSC definition and the way states are implementing the allowance for ebike usage. I say just ride rationally and safely and don't worry if you have an ebike that can assist to 35mph so you can actually use it for effective human scale transportation.

 

[Ken M]

I pulled this text from a legal opinion article published back in 2013. It clearly implies that the 20mph CSPC speed limit does not apply to ebikes / pedelecs that are also being pedaled by the rider (obviously leaves open the door to ghost pedaling):

"As pointed out above, the CPSC’s definition of an electric bike centers around a 20 mph limit, with the caveat that this 20 mph must not be exceeded if the electric bike is solely powered by its motor. Accordingly, this definition permits an electric bike which is powered by its rider (with the possible assistance of a motor, making the electric bike what some call a “pedelec”) to travel faster than 20 mph. The distinction is key to a correct interpretation of the CPSC’s definition."

Note: there is no 28mph Class 3 clarification in this opinion and I do not believe states can do anything but regulate the use of ebikes. Anyone that thinks all this is settled law is probably making a bad assumption.

Here's the complete article: https://www.bicycleretailer.com/opi...n-over-electric-bike-regulations#.XC_GNmhKg3E

 

[6zfshdb]

Young or old, there will always be an element in society of those who want to "push the envelope" and a great many manufacturers who design products to help them do it. Many of us do it every day when we exceed the speed limit in our cars. Virtually every vehicle manufacturer designs products capable of exceeding even the highest posted speed limit. All that legislators & law enforcement can do is pass stricter speeding laws and enforce them. The industry is simply too large and well entrenched in society to regulate by just banning vehicles from the road.

This is not the case with the emerging and relatively fragile e-bike industry. At this point, lawmakers are relying on manufacturers to design products to operate within the law. By their very nature, these laws are inconsistent, confusing and difficult to enforce. If enough e-bike makers skirt these laws enabling owners to break them , it will be quite easy for legislators to simply ban ALL e-bikes or regulate them into oblivion.

There are those who say this will never happen. Maybe not but I say, why take the chance? Why risk spoiling the sport for everyone? Wait a couple of years until there is an e-bike in every garage before "pushing the envelope". When enough voters own e-bikes, legislators will think twice about over regulating them.

 

[BrocLuno]

In "progressive" Cali, any bike with a motor (including electric) is a motorized vehicle and excluded from most trails ...

 

[Ken M]

Young or old, there will always be an element in society of those who want to "push the envelope" and a great many manufacturers who design products to help them do it. Many of us do it every day when we exceed the speed limit in our cars. Virtually every vehicle manufacturer designs products capable of exceeding even the highest posted speed limit. All that legislators & law enforcement can do is pass stricter speeding laws and enforce them. The industry is simply too large and well entrenched in society to regulate by just banning vehicles from the road.

This is not the case with the emerging and relatively fragile e-bike industry. At this point, lawmakers are relying on manufacturers to design products to operate within the law. By their very nature, these laws are inconsistent, confusing and difficult to enforce. If enough e-bike makers skirt these laws enabling owners to break them , it will be quite easy for legislators to simply ban ALL e-bikes or regulate them into oblivion.

There are those who say this will never happen. Maybe not but I say, why take the chance? Why risk spoiling the sport for everyone? Wait a couple of years until there is an e-bike in every garage before "pushing the envelope". When enough voters own e-bikes, legislators will think twice about over regulating them.

Honestly that is a bit of a Pandora's Box argument. It's not a fragile industry and traditional bikes have been going faster than the ??? assist limits for decades. I frequently approach 40mph when going down just moderate grades on my road bike that doesn't have a motor and I don't see anyone out to ban all bikes because they are capable of such fantastic speeds. I rode an ebike over 6,000 miles last year and not once did I see a hot ride bike traveling at crazy speeds ... but you may think my 22-25mph cruising commute speeds are recklessly fast.

Posted speed limits for automobiles in general make sense and the vast majority of drivers peak out pretty close to those speeds - rare is someone just driving nuts in a fast car. I see no reason the speed limits for bikes and ebikes can't be regulated the same way so I struggle to understand where the Class 1 and Class 3 assist limits came from except from the manufacturers of mid drives wanting to sell the same bikes here that are most popular in Europe.

Very few ebike riders have taken the time to read the federal ebike regulation. If you read it carefully you will notice it limits the speed of assist for a throttle to 20mph but there is no assist limit if the rider is pedaling. That is because they know traditional bikes were already traveling at speeds greater than 20mph with human power alone. I just think common sense will prevail long term as we need effective human scale transportation and ebikes are arguably the most efficient form of transportation there is.

 

[Mr. Coffee]

In "progressive" Cali, any bike with a motor (including electric) is a motorized vehicle and excluded from most trails ...

Citation please. This article directly contradicts your claim. According to the aforementioned article, class I and class II e-bikes are allowed everywhere a vanilla bike is allowed (unless local ordinances specify otherwise) and class III e-bikes can use bike lanes.

 

[6zfshdb]

Honestly that is a bit of a Pandora's Box argument. It's not a fragile industry and traditional bikes have been going faster than the ??? assist limits for decades. I frequently approach 40mph when going down just moderate grades on my road bike that doesn't have a motor and I don't see anyone out to ban all bikes because they are capable of such fantastic speeds. I rode an ebike over 6,000 miles last year and not once did I see a hot ride bike traveling at crazy speeds ... but you may think my 22-25mph cruising commute speeds are recklessly fast.

Posted speed limits for automobiles in general make sense and the vast majority of drivers peak out pretty close to those speeds - rare is someone just driving nuts in a fast car. I see no reason the speed limits for bikes and ebikes can't be regulated the same way so I struggle to understand where the Class 1 and Class 3 assist limits came from except from the manufacturers of mid drives wanting to sell the same bikes here that are most popular in Europe.

Very few ebike riders have taken the time to read the federal ebike regulation. If you read it carefully you will notice it limits the speed of assist for a throttle to 20mph but there is no assist limit if the rider is pedaling. That is because they know traditional bikes were already traveling at speeds greater than 20mph with human power alone. I just think common sense will prevail long term as we need effective human scale transportation and ebikes are arguably the most efficient form of transportation there is.

My point was not about the speed capability of a bike but rather the laws & regulations that govern them. Bicycles and e-bikes are two different animals in the eyes of some lawmakers. These laws are still emerging in many states and my point was, we should tread lightly on abuses by owners and manufacturers which could affect the nature of these laws. All of us here want e-bikes to be treated the same as bicycles. Let's not give lawmakers a reason to separate them.

 

[Ken M]

My point was not about the speed capability of a bike but rather the laws & regulations that govern them. Bicycles and e-bikes are two different animals in the eyes of some lawmakers. These laws are still emerging in many states and my point was, we should tread lightly on abuses by owners and manufacturers which could affect the nature of these laws. All of us here want e-bikes to be treated the same as bicycles. Let's not give lawmakers a reason to separate them.

Agreed, but we don't want the lawmakers being solely influenced by the mid-drive OEMs (Bosch, Yamaha, Brose, etc.) to establish regulations that benefit that specific motor configuration (without gearing a simple direct drive hub motor tends to need more power at lower speeds than a geared mid drive and regulations should not really dictate the best technology when both are truly efficient compared to alternatives). I understand the OEMs wanting to sell the same ebikes world wide for better economies of scale but variances in country to country regulations should be possible via programming (allowing the mechanical platform to be the same).

Note: I have heard that Bosch does make an effort to push legislation that benefits mid-drives on commuting/transportation ebikes even though they produce direct drive hub motors for emopeds.

It's not that hard to assess what the speed range was/is for traditional bikes without motorized assist and I see no reason why that data can't be rationally used to establish to upper limit on either assist speeds and/or bike path/lane speeds. All that would do is allow the "average" commute speed of an ebike to be higher and the rider exertion to be lower which are both factors for people considering an ebike for transportation.

As some have pointed out, the aerodynamic drag of sustaining speeds above the Class 3 28mph speed becomes significant so ebikes intended for say top assist speeds to say 36mph/55kph need both more powerful drive systems (something in the range of 1000-2000W continuous) being fed by somewhat significant battery capacity (1000wh or even more) to have good range. This level of performance would allow most riders to sustain a speed over 20mph/32kph up something like a 10% grade which is helpful for commute times and less fatigue (if they don't want to sweat that much going to work). This is very viable technology and the ebike would still be human scale transportation without being a hot rod in my opinion (at some point the assist does put ebike into moped class which really needs to meet DOT standards to be sharing lanes with cars).

One last note. I have no idea how legislators expect enforcement of the current 20 or 28mph assist limits when it's pretty easy to just have a mode switch on the ebike that toggles between a compliant mode and a non-compliant mode. How can you possibly expect a police officer to establish if the speed the ebike was traveling was due to non-compliant assist or the rider? It's much easier for them to enforce an actual speed limit of the path/lane just as they do for automobiles on different streets/highways/interstates. This just seems to ignored all too often when there is a discussion on ebike assist speeds.