Is There a Yamaha eBike Comparison Chart Anywhere?

[cryptacle]

Thanks to the kindness and knowledge of this community's members, I have narrowed down my ebike search to a Yamaha.

Does anyone know if there's a handy-dandy comparison chart out there that compares the CrossCore // Urban Rush // Civante? If not, I'll put one together, but I figured I'd ask first before I get started. I usually use EBR or the manufacturer's website for a comparison chart, but I don't see one.

And yes, I need the chart--it will help me make sure I'm spending my $$ wisely-- and get out on the road!

Also, for current Yamaha owners: Once I purchase the bike, I can have it serviced/warranty coverage at any authorized shop, right? Not just the point of purchase? Is this true if I were to buy the Yamaha online at one of their authorized retailers? (i.e. - Crazy Lenny's).

Thanks!

 

[todbar]

No simple comparison chart as far as I know -choice depends on what you want in an Ebike... features, cost, etc. If you have specific questions, this forum is a great place to ask. Yes, the bikes can be taken to any authorized Yamaha bike dealer for service - I bought mine online.

 

[Oski1997]

Thanks to the kindness and knowledge of this community's members, I have narrowed down my ebike search to a Yamaha.

Does anyone know if there's a handy-dandy comparison chart out there that compares the CrossCore // Urban Rush // Civante? If not, I'll put one together, but I figured I'd ask first before I get started. I usually use EBR or the manufacturer's website for a comparison chart, but I don't see one.

And yes, I need the chart--it will help me make sure I'm spending my $$ wisely-- and get out on the road!

Also, for current Yamaha owners: Once I purchase the bike, I can have it serviced/warranty coverage at any authorized shop, right? Not just the point of purchase? Is this true if I were to buy the Yamaha online at one of their authorized retailers? (i.e. - Crazy Lenny's).

Thanks!

It would be better if you bought it from your local bike shop because (at least in my experience) they are a lot nicer/more accommodating with my requests when I purchase it from them directly (and they don’t charge me for many low cost adjustments/corrections) the first 6 months of ownership. As far as comparing them, they all have many of the same components. I believe the main differences of the CrossCore is that it has lower grade “recreational” (Sora) Shimano shifters (9-speed, single chain), derailleurs and mechanical (not hydraulic) disc brakes. And, of course, it has a more upright seating position for comfort. The Urban Rush and the Civante have a better “enthusiast” grade Shimano set called Tiagra. The main difference between these two is that the Civante’s motor supports the rider up to 28 miles per hour (the Urban Rush stops at 20mph). Because the Civante has 2 freewheels, there is no resistance/drag when you reach the motor support limit of 28mph. It rides like a regular bike. The Civantes computer firmware has been programmed to allow the motor to provide riders with enough motor support for them to achieve 28mph as long as they have a 100 cadence in any gear. If you plan on using the bike with road cyclists, the Civante would allow you to keep up and climb steep 3,800ft elevation hills. In my experience, the Civante has a battery range of 57 miles (avg speed of 15mph) using the two highest settings on a 4-hr bike ride with 3,800ft elevation gain. The range is longer using the two lowest settings. If you’re riding the bike mainly for slower (less than 20mph) recreational purposes, the CrossConnect is more comfortable. And, it’s $1,000 cheaper!! In my opinion, only the Civante is worth the extra $1,000 because of the 28mph motor, double chainring, 2 freewheels (for peddling without turning the motor) and the Tiagra group set. The 2nd cheapest class 3 road bike with drop handlebars, a minimum of 70nm of torque and 500w battery (from a major bike manufacturer) with better specs costs $4,700 from Giant. The 3rd cheapest is the Trek for $7,000. Giant and Trek don’t offer class 3 “drop handlebar” road bikes without the more expensive Ultregra components. I wouldn’t pay an extra $1,000 over the CrossConnect for the UrbanRush (IMHO). I’m not sure why anyone would buy the Urban Rush instead of the Civante. The Civante was released July/August of 2020 so people who wanted a drop bar road bike with a double chain ring could only buy the Urban Rush before the Civante was released. The Wabash has a drop bar but it only has a single chain ring so it’s mainly good on speeds less than 20mph and is also limited on steep climbs because of the single chainring but it is great for off road cycling at lower speeds. I just got my Civante a couple of weeks ago so feel free to ask me any questions.

Main difference between the Bosch motor (not sure if this applies to the 4th gen motors) and Yamaha:

Yamaha Zero cadence support with 2 freewheels​

Most mid-drive motors (like the Bosch) have just one freewheel, this is used for pedaling without turning the motor. With just a single freewheel, the motor can never drive the rear wheel without the pedals turning, this requires an extra freewheel.

The Yamaha has 2 freewheels, so we can do both:

• Pedaling without turning the motor
• The motor can drive the rear wheel without the pedals turning

 

[cryptacle]

It would be better if you bought it from your local bike shop because (at least in my experience) they are a lot nicer/more accommodating with my requests when I purchase it from them directly (and they don’t charge me for many low cost adjustments/corrections) the first 6 months of ownership. As far as comparing them, they all have many of the same components. I believe the main differences of the CrossCore is that it has lower grade “recreational” (Sora) Shimano shifters (9-speed, single chain), derailleurs and mechanical (not hydraulic) disc brakes. And, of course, it has a more upright seating position for comfort. The Urban Rush and the Civante have a better “enthusiast” grade Shimano set called Tiagra. The main difference between these two is that the Civante’s motor supports the rider up to 28 miles per hour (the Urban Rush stops at 20mph). Because the Civante has 2 freewheels, there is no resistance/drag when you reach the motor support limit of 28mph. It rides like a regular bike. The Civantes computer firmware has been programmed to allow the motor to provide riders with enough motor support for them to achieve 28mph as long as they have a 100 cadence in any gear. If you plan on using the bike with road cyclists, the Civante would allow you to keep up and climb steep 3,800ft elevation hills. In my experience, the Civante has a battery range of 57 miles (avg speed of 15mph) using the two highest settings on a 4-hr bike ride with 3,800ft elevation gain. The range is longer using the two lowest settings. If you’re riding the bike mainly for slower (less than 20mph) recreational purposes, the CrossConnect is more comfortable. And, it’s $1,000 cheaper!! In my opinion, only the Civante is worth the extra $1,000 because of the 28mph motor, double chainring, 2 freewheels (for peddling without turning the motor) and the Tiagra group set. The 2nd cheapest class 3 road bike with drop handlebars, a minimum of 70nm of torque and 500w battery (from a major bike manufacturer) with better specs costs $4,700 from Giant. The 3rd cheapest is the Trek for $7,000. Giant and Trek don’t offer class 3 “drop handlebar” road bikes without the more expensive Ultregra components. I wouldn’t pay an extra $1,000 over the CrossConnect for the UrbanRush (IMHO). I’m not sure why anyone would buy the Urban Rush instead of the Civante. The Civante was released July/August of 2020 so people who wanted a drop bar road bike with a double chain ring could only buy the Urban Rush before the Civante was released. The Wabash has a drop bar but it only has a single chain ring so it’s mainly good on speeds less than 20mph and is also limited on steep climbs because of the single chainring but it is great for off road cycling at lower speeds. I just got my Civante a couple of weeks ago so feel free to ask me any questions.

Main difference between the Bosch motor (not sure if this applies to the 4th gen motors) and Yamaha:

Yamaha Zero cadence support with 2 freewheels​

Most mid-drive motors (like the Bosch) have just one freewheel, this is used for pedaling without turning the motor. With just a single freewheel, the motor can never drive the rear wheel without the pedals turning, this requires an extra freewheel.

The Yamaha has 2 freewheels, so we can do both:

• Pedaling without turning the motor
• The motor can drive the rear wheel without the pedals turning

What an amazing reply, thank you!

I have done a great deal of research and everything you say is accurate. My issue is finding a Civante in the NY area from a local shop...I haven't had any luck...and the impatient me wants a bike by mid-April.

It seems like so far, you are a fan of your purchase. Congrats!

 

[Saratoga Dave]

I hope I’m not violating any forum rules here, and if I am I’ll delete this, but I got my Civante from Covered Bridge Electric Bikes in Cornwall, Ct. Very nice shop in a beautiful spot, and Bob the owner was terrific. Very much a boutique sort of outfit, and a pleasure all around.

The bike has been great as well... heading out in an hour to climb up the Helderberg escarpment for that nice view of the Albany area and over to Vermont.

 

[cryptacle]

I hope I’m not violating any forum rules here, and if I am I’ll delete this, but I got my Civante from Covered Bridge Electric Bikes in Cornwall, Ct. Very nice shop in a beautiful spot, and Bob the owner was terrific. Very much a boutique sort of outfit, and a pleasure all around.

The bike has been great as well... heading out in an hour to climb up the Helderberg escarpment for that nice view of the Albany area and over to Vermont.

That info helps me...thank you!

 

[Oski1997]

What an amazing reply, thank you!

I have done a great deal of research and everything you say is accurate. My issue is finding a Civante in the NY area from a local shop...I haven't had any luck...and the impatient me wants a bike by mid-April.

It seems like so far, you are a fan of your purchase. Congrats!

You’re welcome. I live in California and when I was calling all the Yamaha authorized dealers within a 2-hour driving radius form me (using this website https://www.yamahabicycles.com/store-locator/ ) I found out that many shops were expecting a 2nd shipment from Yamaha from April - June. Good luck on your purchase and let us know what you end up buying!!

 

[Oski1997]

That info helps me...thank you!

I hope I’m not violating any forum rules here, and if I am I’ll delete this, but I got my Civante from Covered Bridge Electric Bikes in Cornwall, Ct. Very nice shop in a beautiful spot, and Bob the owner was terrific. Very much a boutique sort of outfit, and a pleasure all around.

The bike has been great as well... heading out in an hour to climb up the Helderberg escarpment for that nice view of the Albany area and over to Vermont.

Wow, nice!

 

[Jetsfan901]

What an amazing reply, thank you!

I have done a great deal of research and everything you say is accurate. My issue is finding a Civante in the NY area from a local shop...I haven't had any luck...and the impatient me wants a bike by mid-April.

It seems like so far, you are a fan of your purchase. Congrats!

Have you tried GreenPath in Brooklyn? I picked up my Cross Core there a few months ago. It only took them about a week to get me the bike and they were good to deal with. I am sorry I didn't go with the Civante instead, but I will keep this bike about a year and then upgrade..

 

[Oski1997]

Have you tried GreenPath in Brooklyn? I picked up my Cross Core there a few months ago. It only took them about a week to get me the bike and they were good to deal with. I am sorry I didn't go with the Civante instead, but I will keep this bike about a year and then upgrade..

Yamaha has a new “ST” motor with 4 sensors (the 3 we have plus one for incline/decline detection) which gives the motor more data to determine how much power to deliver on ascends and descends. I would wait until the bikes get the new motor before spending $3,400 on the Civante. Yamaha usually brings new models into the market in July so maybe we’ll hear something this summer.

 

[Tantalus]

I love my Civante and have swapped the stem, saddle and post for fit and to reduce the Darth Vader look of the black OEM parts. I installed 38C tires and a fat Ergon Ebike saddle for increased comfort. The bike loves to cruise at 17-20 mph. From 20-24 mph ithe effort is harder, like riding a regular bike. 24-27 mph requires a sizable athletic effort! Having said all this, I believe the Urban Rush would give you 15-18 mph cruising speed with a 20 mph max which still is fun. (based on my experience with a class 1 Yamaha/Haibike that is less aero etc.)

 

[Oski1997]

I love my Civante and have swapped the stem, saddle and post for fit and to reduce the Darth Vader look of the black OEM parts. I installed 38C tires and a fat Ergon Ebike saddle for increased comfort. The bike loves to cruise at 17-20 mph. From 20-24 mph ithe effort is harder, like riding a regular bike. 24-27 mph requires a sizable athletic effort! Having said all this, I believe the Urban Rush would give you 15-18 mph cruising speed with a 20 mph max which still is fun. (based on my experience with a class 1 Yamaha/Haibike that is less aero etc.)View attachment 81923

Do you happen to know how we can find out if a wheel from DT Swiss is compatible with the speed sensor? Another member has been trying to find a hub that has the grooves required for the speed sensor to work but 3 months later and he’s still at a road block.

I am looking at getting the HE 1800 Spline from DT Swiss for my Civante: https://www.dtswiss.com/en/wheels/wheels-road/hybrid-endurance/he-1800-spline

 

[Asher]

Yamaha has a new “ST” motor with 4 sensors (the 3 we have plus one for incline/decline detection) which gives the motor more data to determine how much power to deliver on ascends and descends. I would wait until the bikes get the new motor before spending $3,400 on the Civante. Yamaha usually brings new models into the market in July so maybe we’ll hear something this summer.

Thanks for the tip. Do you think Yamaha is dedicated to staying in the US? Their presence isn't very strong, one shop I called is no longer a dealer, and their overall network isn't very strong. I just don't get the sense they're very committed here.

However, maybe that's because a) their supply is low so they're focusing on more established markets for now and b) they want to have more Class 3 vehicles before going hard in the US.

Right now, it just seems impossible to tell whether they're coming or going in the US, and perhaps even if they want to become more of a brand or a supplier. Selling a flat bar commuter model with their integrated 500/600wh batteries and Class 3 would definitely help their cause, and go toe to toe with the big brands. Their own-brand models can seem like an afterthought in terms of their market presence (the models themselves seem fine).

 

[Oski1997]

Thanks for the tip. Do you think Yamaha is dedicated to staying in the US? Their presence isn't very strong, one shop I called is no longer a dealer, and their overall network isn't very strong. I just don't get the sense they're very committed here.

However, maybe that's because a) their supply is low so they're focusing on more established markets for now and b) they want to have more Class 3 vehicles before going hard in the US.

Right now, it just seems impossible to tell whether they're coming or going in the US, and perhaps even if they want to become more of a brand or a supplier. Selling a flat bar commuter model with their integrated 500/600wh batteries and Class 3 would definitely help their cause, and go toe to toe with the big brands. Their own-brand models can seem like an afterthought in terms of their market presence (the models themselves seem fine).

Only time will time. The ebike market is supposed to exponentially grow in the next 5 years so I believe they’ll be around at least the next 5 years. But, I do believe it’ll depend on the health of the ebike market in 5-10 years.

 

[Zekiel]

Actually, the Wabash gear spread is almost the same as the range of Yamaha bikes I tested. The cross core Gain ratio goes from 2.3 - 9.2, the Wabash is 2.3 - 8.9 and the civante is 2.2 - 9.2. So as you can see not really all that different. If using 90 RPM as a constant, that’s a difference of only 2 mph on the top end between Wabash and Civante.

 

[Oski1997]

Actually, the Wabash gear spread is almost the same as the range of Yamaha bikes I tested. The cross core Gain ratio goes from 2.3 - 9.2, the Wabash is 2.3 - 8.9 and the civante is 2.2 - 9.2. So as you can see not really all that different. If using 90 RPM as a constant, that’s a difference of only 2 mph on the top end between Wabash and Civante.

Do these numbers mean that the Civante can climb hills faster than the Wabash and Cross Core bc of the 2.2 gain ratio?

 

[Zekiel]

Do these numbers mean that the Civante can climb hills faster than the Wabash and Cross Core bc of the 2.2 gain ratio?

lol, yeah! By 0.1! At the same 90 rpm rate that’s climbing 0.3 mph faster.

 

[Tantalus]

Actually, the Wabash gear spread is almost the same as the range of Yamaha bikes I tested. The cross core Gain ratio goes from 2.3 - 9.2, the Wabash is 2.3 - 8.9 and the civante is 2.2 - 9.2. So as you can see not really all that different. If using 90 RPM as a constant, that’s a difference of only 2 mph on the top end between Wabash and Civante.

Yes gearing is all about the same - but I think the practical differences between all these models (besides 20 mph/28mph) are aerodynamic and riding position, which affects comfort and range etc.