Is that new electric bicycle your looking at legal?

[PedalUma]

The limiting factor is gearing and wind resistance. Not programing. The two with motors and batteries do about 32 Mph. But you couldn't comfortably maintain that cadence on the flats. That is about 51 or 52 Kph. Good enough for safely clearing an intersection with cars. Bikes feel stable at 20 Mph. They really are not designed for high speeds. 45K is about the limit of the comfort zone in my opinion. I just now purchased two new bikes to convert. His and hers. The total for both with matching racks and after tax was $1120 US. That is about 986 euro for the pair. IPA beer paid for delivery by a kid at the bike shop today after work in two hours. I will upgrade the brakes when I install the mid-drives. I hope this inspires others to take some risks and have fun. The men's white one is getting a black rack.

 

[AHicks]

It's about the mentality that's what it has do with. Inspections are a pain and some of the things that make a vehicle fail them are stupid but being able to drive a unsafe vehicle on the road think about it.

If you are talking about ridiculous rules, I couldn't agree any more!

 

[E biker]

Could we start a spot ,sort of like a review on bikes,but about trials that is actually ridden by us on the site. This should include mountan bike trails also. What is legal on said trail.
We have driven 100 mi.in the past only to find out the pictures were the best part of the trail.
Maybe their is,I missed?

 

[Cowlitz]

Cops seldom enforce traffic laws here. Why would they care about bikes?

There are only a few e bikes in the area. Bicycles are mainly ridden by the local tweakers. The large sized diesel pickup is the preferred transportation. Note all the traffic on a county road that is actually a border crossing into Canada. That was on a Saturday and there were no vehicles at all on it. I heard a few coyotes making noise.

 

[pmcdonald]

Could we start a spot ,sort of like a review on bikes,but about trials that is actually ridden by us on the site. This should include mountan bike trails also. What is legal on said trail.
We have driven 100 mi.in the past only to find out the pictures were the best part of the trail.
Maybe their is,I missed?

Trailforks often specifies if a pathway or track is Ebike friendly. The information isn't always up to date, but I've discovered a ton of local trails through it.

 

[PedalUma]

For me the problem is not with Class 1, Class 2, or Class 3 bikes. It is when you get an inexperienced and inconsiderate rider on what amounts to a motor cycle riding on a path or trail with pedestrians. My elderly aunt was struck while using a walker on a sidewalk and died. This was a few years ago at a Quaker assisted living home in New Hampshire.

 

[E biker]

For me the problem is not with Class 1, Class 2, or Class 3 bikes. It is when you get an inexperienced and inconsiderate rider on what amounts to a motor cycle riding on a path or trail with pedestrians. My elderly aunt was struck while using a walker on a sidewalk and died. This was a few years ago at a Quaker assisted living home in New Hampshire.

I hope someone was arrested, sorry to hear about your loss.

 

[PedalUma]

Thanks, She was very old and had last stage Parkinson's with many other problems. One thing or another would have been the spark. The pyre was already set. But the guy on the bike must feel *hitty. Having a illegal bike could be fun until it wasn't.

 

[Ken M]

To further complicate the issue, e-bike laws vary by state, county and even individual towns. Keeping current with these laws can be a daunting task. Fortunately, enforcement is lax and often non existent in many jurisdictions.

Keeping these laws from getting out of hand is the responsibility of every rider. Those who ride recklessly will only cause more laws to be enacted and enforced.

If People for Bikes would have pushed for the states to lock into policy that the LSEB definition in HR727 was just considered a "bike" for the "use" / traffic laws this would so simple. That is what the intent was of HR727 that passed one vote short of full congressional consensus (keep in mind these were state representatives voting on this federal law and it made perfect sense). For some reason People for Bikes decided the lobby money they could receive pushing the non-nonsensical 3-class legislation state by state (what is clearly an attempt to redefine the "what" a legal ebike is when they knew that the CPSC would still control what is legal for 1st sale) was more important than promoting good bike policy.

Now we have enforcement by stickers and multi-mode ebikes that make it impossible for the local enforcement they thought they were promoting. As LSEB as a "bike" was working fine from 2002 till past 2012 but I realize the number of sales was still low but there would be no issues whatsoever if People for Bikes would have stayed away from ebike definitions (think for a second they literally thought there was some reason to separate a 20mph pedelec and throttle assist system and then they don't allow throttles on Class 3 ebikes that are only allowed on public roads and bike lanes where every other vehicle has a throttle or gas pedal). The fact that some people still praise this system is totally lost on me as it is simple bad legislation.

On the bright side: I had a conference call with the CPSC a couple months ago and they stated that they see the terms "LSEB" and "ebike" as two different products. In other words they claim that an LSEB as defined in HR727 is both a bike (including for use) and safety regulated as a bike and that the class 3 ebike system is something voluntary for the states to regulate. There were many "unclassed" ebike sold prior to 3-class legislation that would have required grandfathering consideration which was not needed because LSEBs remain legal as bikes. This is not easy for most to understand but this came from the CPSC general counsel and who's to argue with the logic of their lawyers.

 

[Ken M]

You Americans and Canadians have it good with your limits. We're stuck with 25 km/h here in Australia, which I believe is too low given our commute and density similarities to the aforementioned countries, and our relative lack of quality dedicated cycling infrastructure.

I've written to our state transport minister laying out an argument for a review of the existing regs. In response I got the most generic form letter back defining existing Ebike regulations. State government at its finest.

It's also legal to sell electronic bikes and scooters here for 'private land use' - escooters are prohibited outright in our state - but from what I've seen around the derestricted ebikes are pretty niche. Blast past a police officer in the wrong mood on one and you're liable for thousands in fines as well.

Id like to see a lot more pressure put on government to change the regulations. They're adopted from the UK virtually wholesale, which themselves I read were foistered on the emerging Ebike community by the unpowered cycling advocacy body. My commute is near parity with travelling by car: 30 min by Ebike vs 25 min by car. Even a small bump up to 32 km/h would see this cut down by up to 20%. Anyway, rant over.

You should look at the history of EU ebike regulation as you'll probably find that the largest car parts producer in the world had a lot of influence on neutering ebike performance. It was Bosch who obviously makes ebike motors but they wanted to have some control to keep ebike in the realm of recreation and leisure and not really great for commuting. The 250W limit was also very effective at keep low priced Chinese hubs out of Europe as without a higher power rating they get killed by mid drives with high reduction ratios.

Sadly the world needs more people willing to get out of cars and ride ebikes for more transportation needs but that is totally ignored when corporate money is going into the pockets of law makers. Some will say I'm into this crazy conspiracy theory but I suggest just reviewing what happened. Then sadly Australia's law makers decided to not think at all and just adopted the trash legislation from Europe. 25kph / 15mph is a joke for commuting it's not compelling whatsoever. I'm not proposing crazy fast powerful ebikes buzzing around cities but there is historical data that proves that 95%+ of riders before ebikes ever appeared would hit speeds of 45-55kph on rides (obviously going down hills but top speeds of bikes were well established to be much faster than 25kph so what is wrong with faster assist to allow higher "average" commute speeds as no one on an ebike is going any faster down hills as that is where 99% of the risk is and accidents happen. Facts just get ignored by lawmakers when corporations tell them what to do. They don't lead.

 

[Ken M]

I know Florida doesn't care, and I believe there's one more state that has it right as well. Utah maybe? Anyway, Florida made a single clean broad stroke when they passed a law (last summer?) that states an e-bike can be ridden anywhere an analog bike can be ridden (regardless of class). Hopefully some clown won't mess that up for us....

Further, they have a very progressive outlook regarding bikes. Perhaps they realize nice trails draw riders, potentially riders that have come a LONG way that are very likely to stay a day or 2? This past weekend the wife and I just rode a brand new multi million dollar connector connecting an existing 46 mile state trail to a more local county trail in a popular tourist area. This project involved a tunnel going under a really busy state highway. SUPER nice! Notable was that the local staging area (there's a bunch of those as well) had cars with plates from several other states....

Funny because that is pretty much what HR727 intended back in 2002 - all LSEBs to be considered bikes. All the states had to do was recognize this federal law as making great sensed but then along came the lobby money going to People for Bikes and 3-class was born to muck up a simple one definition for a compliant legal ebike.

 

[Ken M]

Agree keeping these laws from getting out of hand but more states are in line with each other then people think to a degree. Like what state aren't on board with the 20mph or 28mph assist limmit? I'm not talking about trails but roads.

Ask yourself why a 28mph class 3 pedelec ebike (not allowed to have a throttle) is required to be only on roads or road side bikes lanes sharing space with all the other vehicles that are allowed to have throttles and gas pedals. This alone tells me no one was thinking when the 3-class legislation was drafted. I think it came from EU hand carried by a Bosch executive (Claudia) with lobby money to People for Bikes and they now claim is was the "best system they found." Maybe reviewing HR727 would have helped them make a better decision.

 

[Ken M]

There it is in some places it's just to restrictive but on the other hand there is a point when it's not bicycle anymore and should be treated as such. Emb network just did a thing about this. The numbers here in the states are pretty good thou I like to see just a tiny bit higher but can't honesty justify much higher before it should be considered something else.

Did EmB network even mention the federal LSEB definition in HR727? Probably not as they only think the 3-class system at the state level should be discussed. How about those stickers for enforcement? What an idea.

 

[pmcdonald]

For me the problem is not with Class 1, Class 2, or Class 3 bikes. It is when you get an inexperienced and inconsiderate rider on what amounts to a motor cycle riding on a path or trail with pedestrians. My elderly aunt was struck while using a walker on a sidewalk and died. This was a few years ago at a Quaker assisted living home in New Hampshire.

That's horrible, I'm so sorry to read that.

That's the nightmare scenario for us enthusiasts and regulators alike: a powerful, heavy mass of bike impacting on padestrians.

Similar cases happen here in Australia every few years. The last two I can remember involved illegal-spec bikes riding on pavements. I don't recall the legal outcome but it was obviously devastating for the families of those killed by these cyclists.

Im not sure what the answer is, but adopting Canada's 32km/h regulations while keep prohibitions or speed limits on ALL bikes in busy mixed used areas doesn't seem to come with too many drawbacks.

 

[Ken M]

Up you go$!!!!!!!.

This is like watching fainting goats.

Huh?? Are you a big fan of Duck Dynasty as I don't understand the fainting goat comment. My questioning a class 3 ebike only being allowed on the road on in a bike lane is a fair question because it makes no sense whatsoever that these ebikes can't have a throttle when all the other vehicles sharing that infrastructure do. It's just an example proving how poorly conceived 3-class legislation was. But is was actually conceived to keep ebikes as recreational and leisure products and not effective transportation. The goal should be to make ebikes compelling (while still be safe enough) to get more people out of cars.

 

[pmcdonald]

The goal should be to make ebikes compelling (while still be safe enough) to get more people out of cars.

Agreed. However that would take a mob slightly more forward thinking than we've currently got in power at state and Federal levels here though. Cycleways are those things tacked on to the side of big and costly motorway projects, never the project themselves. There's some good things happening around the country at the LGA level but their hands are bound in terms of regulation.

 

[Ken M]

That's horrible, I'm so sorry to read that.

That's the nightmare scenario for us enthusiasts and regulators alike: a powerful, heavy mass of bike impacting on padestrians.

Similar cases happen here in Australia every few years. The last two I can remember involved illegal-spec bikes riding on pavements. I don't recall the legal outcome but it was obviously devastating for the families of those killed by these cyclists.

Im not sure what the answer is, but adopting Canada's 32km/h regulations while keep prohibitions or speed limits on ALL bikes in busy mixed used areas doesn't seem to come with too many drawbacks.

We don't need Canada's lower power limit and lower assist limit here in the US. They don't need to get anywhere fast as almost everything is free up there.

It is a horrible outcome to hear about someone being killed by a cyclist but it's actually very rare compared to a auto killing pedestrians or cyclists. In general anyone riding on 2 wheels knows they need to ride pretty safe as they are as likely as anyone to be hurt in an accident.

 

[Ken M]

Agreed. However that would take a mob slightly more forward thinking than we've currently got in power at state and Federal levels here though. Cycleways are those things tacked on to the side of big and costly motorway projects, never the project themselves. There's some good things happening around the country at the LGA level but their hands are bound in terms of regulation.

HR727 was written by a Phd Electrical engineer that was very forward thinking. All the states had to do was accept the LSEB definition for use as it was legal for 1st sale in every state and still is.

I'm guessing that less than 5% of ebike riders have even read HR727. It's sad that it passed one vote short of full congressional consensus but states law makers were paid to think 3-class was better.

 

[E biker]

Well, summer is coming, I saw our local police, Ft. Wayne, will have ebikes this year.Good or bad,don't know if it's for safety or class enforcement, I hope safety.
Our bikes have a throttle, but we use to just get started, then peddle. We Enjoy peddling, I found driving a moped boring,sold it.

 

[6zfshdb]

That's the nightmare scenario for us enthusiasts and regulators alike: a powerful, heavy mass of bike impacting on padestrians.

Similar cases happen here in Australia every few years. The last two I can remember involved illegal-spec bikes riding on pavements. I don't recall the legal outcome but it was obviously devastating for the families of those killed by these cyclists.

This has always been true with any bicycle. When I was in my 20's, I was double dating on the boardwalk at Atlantic City. My buddy's girlfriend suffered a broken leg when she was struck by a young kid riding his Schwinn. The problem is somewhat worse with the advent of e-bikes, since most are heavier and likely travelling faster.