Is my battery on its way out?

[Waterboy]

I have an action line Raleigh Motus Hybrid about 4.5 yrs old, 3000 miles, 42 full charge cycles.
When I bought it I was encouraged to full charge each time so as to allow the BMS to "work its magic". Since I was using bike almost daily for short eco trips and charging once a week, I don't suppose it mattered.
But about 18 months ago I was suddenly unable to use it, and it sat in its shed unused for 12 months with a full charged battery.
Intermittant light use, but mainly tour rather than eco, began last April. Recently I have started doing a lot of hill work on tour (and above) using 3 or 4 leds worth each trip.
Last couple of charges (with the bosch standard charger) I've noticed that whilst the battery charges to 4 leds quite quickly, it is taking about 6 hours to fill the last led.
At start of the month it showed 40.9volts on 97% charge. Is it trying to tell me something?

 

[Ebiker01]

If it’s a 2amp charger and a 800wh or higher is okay 6hours. For a 4amp charger should be 3hours or 1-1.5 for a 4-600wh bat
- the Bms is balancing the charge for each cell in the end. 20-45min usually

-i would fully discharge it/charge it fully 3-4x and then should revive itself.
-if not , maybe a cell is bad , i’m not yet skilled in the .
- if the battery has a power on button(that shows you how many Leds of charge) , keep that one pressed for 7-10seconds to reset it or wake up the bat. ( but this varies from battery to battery, for some it can be 30seconds or different on/off protocol) . I would play with that ON button as that is most likely to revive it. And then the discharge/charge cycles.

If all fails :

Fthpower is a great co. (Good price also) That fixes lithium batteries amongst other things.

 

[webcurl]

I've heard that if you try to "fix" some of the newer Bosch batteries and the BMS loses any power it bricks itself.
6 Hrs for a Bosch 'standard charger' (4A) is a bit long, ok for the 'compact charger' (2A).

 

[Waterboy]

Thanks for your replies. It's the change in charging behaviour, and the six hours just to fill the final led on top of the two hours or so to fill the first four, that has me worried its time to start saving my pennies for a new battery.

 

[dblhelix]

I have an action line Raleigh Motus Hybrid about 4.5 yrs old, 3000 miles, 42 full charge cycles.
When I bought it I was encouraged to full charge each time so as to allow the BMS to "work its magic". Since I was using bike almost daily for short eco trips and charging once a week, I don't suppose it mattered.
But about 18 months ago I was suddenly unable to use it, and it sat in its shed unused for 12 months with a full charged battery.
Intermittant light use, but mainly tour rather than eco, began last April. Recently I have started doing a lot of hill work on tour (and above) using 3 or 4 leds worth each trip.
Last couple of charges (with the bosch standard charger) I've noticed that whilst the battery charges to 4 leds quite quickly, it is taking about 6 hours to fill the last led.
At start of the month it showed 40.9volts on 97% charge. Is it trying to tell me something?

This has been discussed here before:

Battery stopped charging at four bars

Hi I've had my Bosch system for about two years now maybe a year and a half. Its been working flawlessly but my 400 battery all of a sudden stopped charging at 4 bars which I can live with. But the problem is now its dead and won't work on the bike. Has anyone else experienced this? Can...

electricbikereview.com

The battery replacement sounds like bad news but perhaps there’s some useful info here for you. The situation is not identical but possibly related. Not clear what you meant by suddenly unable to use the battery but the 4-bar charging seems to be the same issue.

 

[tomjasz]

4.5 years with some abuse by sitting full for a year and I’d expect issues. No problem at all with 4A charging. As long as the BMS is setup for 4A charging. I’d do several “monitored” long, 8 hour charges. I’d prefer at a 2A rate. But after 4.5 years I wouldn’t be surprised if you now have a sagging pack. Do monitor any charges. It is possible to have one or more bad cells. I charge in a latched ammo can with the water seal gasket removed. Careful not to pinch the wires and short out the pack. Best to drill a hole and lead the wires through a hole protected by a rubber gasket.

 

[dblhelix]

I have an action line Raleigh Motus Hybrid about 4.5 yrs old, 3000 miles, 42 full charge cycles.
When I bought it I was encouraged to full charge each time so as to allow the BMS to "work its magic". Since I was using bike almost daily for short eco trips and charging once a week, I don't suppose it mattered.
But about 18 months ago I was suddenly unable to use it, and it sat in its shed unused for 12 months with a full charged battery.
Intermittant light use, but mainly tour rather than eco, began last April. Recently I have started doing a lot of hill work on tour (and above) using 3 or 4 leds worth each trip.
Last couple of charges (with the bosch standard charger) I've noticed that whilst the battery charges to 4 leds quite quickly, it is taking about 6 hours to fill the last led.
At start of the month it showed 40.9volts on 97% charge. Is it trying to tell me something?

Out of curiosity, how did you obtain the voltage reading? Did you do the 5V on pin 3 thing?

 

[Waterboy]

Thanks Thomas, I was afraid of that. Here in the UK the Bosch 4 amp charger is supplied with the bike - never occurred to me to use anything else.

Dblhelix, I did look through the forum before I posted, but mine hasn't stopped charging at 4 bars; I still get 5, but only after an interminable final bar. For what it's worth, I suddenly couldn't use the bike on health grounds; a raging chest infection that put me in bed for a couple of weeks and pecipitated continuing COPD that wasn't diagnosed and treated for twelve months - unfortunately it was just after I'd fully charged it, expecting to use it the week I fell ill. The voltage reading came from the Bosch service report - I had the bike serviced (front cog and chain changed & update run) at the beginning of September; I discounted the update because it charged normally a couple of days after the service.

 

[webcurl]

4.5 years with some abuse by sitting full for a year and I’d expect issues. No problem at all with 4A charging. As long as the BMS is setup for 4A charging. I’d do several “monitored” long, 8 hour charges. I’d prefer at a 2A rate. But after 4.5 years I wouldn’t be surprised if you now have a sagging pack. Do monitor any charges. It is possible to have one or more bad cells. I charge in a latched ammo can with the water seal gasket removed. Careful not to pinch the wires and short out the pack. Best to drill a hole and lead the wires through a hole protected by a rubber gasket.

Talking about a Bosch here, there's 3 wires (CAN bus).

 

[tomjasz]

Talking about a Bosch here, there's 3 wires (CAN bus).

And...?

 

[dblhelix]

continuing COPD that wasn't diagnosed and treated for twelve months - unfortunately it was just after I'd fully charged it, expecting to use it the week I fell ill. The voltage reading came from the Bosch service report - I had the bike serviced (front cog and chain changed & update run) at the beginning of September; I discounted the update because it

I’m sorry to hear this and hope your health is much better now. The voltage reading at 97% looks normal to me. When fully charged, it should be around 42V IIRC. Check the easy stuff first. The battery BMS or the charger may be choking the charging rate as a protective measure. Do you have a friend with a charger you can use? Perhaps at your dealer? Also, at time of service, did they run the diagnostic tests on your battery?

 

[Waterboy]

Thanks dblhelix - lets say I'm learning to fight back!

I went down and had a chat with my fully accredited Bosch Bike dealer. Apparently they only do a full diagnostic on the battery when the initial figures justify it - which mine didn't. He kindly lent me a spare charger. Result! 2 hours 30 min from one solid bar and no 2 bar flashing, to fully charged -all off. I was monitoring it every 30 minutes so am happy it behaved "properly". He says that Bosch are still recommending full charge; apparently they reckon the benefits of equalisation outweigh the disadvantages of full charge storage, even in a case like mine. As far as they are concerned the absolute No-No is uncharged storage. One of the interesting things to come out of the chat was an indication of just how deep (at least in Europe) the Bosch back-up available to dealers is; with increasing levels of technical support available to dealers and even a pan European engineers forum. Oh, and here in the UK they reckon that normal use (which amazingly is less than 10 charging cycles a year - I can only think that they have a preponderance of "wrinkly" users, OK I plead guilty) will give up to 8 years battery life.