Is it worth the cost to buy a spare battery?

[Ebiker01]

invaluable time of the travel

In 35min, i can get another 300wh by charging for the price of a coffee, no need to freeload and just get free elecricity. Most of the times another 150-200wh is sufficient which takes about 22min.
Can leave earlier and with a lighter ebike.

 

[Ebiker01]

hat to convey 200 Wh of charge- 34 minutes and that is under ideal circumstances.

Nope, your math is wrong. At 6.5amps in 17-18minutes i get almost 180wh ! 200wh in about 21min.

 

[bikeman242]

I am thinking about picking up an extra Yamaha battery, though I would probably carry it on top of the rack, inside a protected case, in case I crash the bike it should be protected. These cases look like a good fit for my battery dimensions (14.5" x 3.25" x 3.75")

(Link Removed - No Longer Exists)

(Link Removed - No Longer Exists)

This of course adds further to the price of the battery.

 

[Ebiker01]

separate hard limits for amps, volts, and watt hours which take effect depending on where you are in the charge cycle.

Again , you're misinformed when it comes to the proprietary programming capabilities of the Satiator.
I can custom program a profile for 48bv to top it up to 55.2volts instead of 54.6v and it will run a full 8amps or 6.5ah in my case all the way up to 95-97%. But @95% i stop it , no need for 100%.

With the cheap Bosch chargers or others at around 85% the charge drops to 2-3amps. But you can't even start at 6amps to begin with.

 

[Ebiker01]

For longer rides of 80-120 miles

I take both for a long ride like that. B/c once the packs drops to less then 35% , the ebike gets a little slower, esp. on hills.
Best would be to have 1 to 3 types of battery for All class 3 ebikes and just swap it from a station along the road. Like a station with 30# batteries and you scan , pay 1-2$ max . (1kw is 0.15$ here in Nj/Ny ) take a fresh battery and go.
That would be ideal.

 

[Mulezen]

I am dithering about a second bike...either Vado5 or Allant9s...generally my rides are less than 30 miles but I am thinking of getting on the Allant the extended extra battery...so if the extra 500w battery sits idle a month at a time is this bad?

 

[Scott Adams]

Nope, your math is wrong. At 6.5amps in 17-18minutes i get almost 180wh ! 200wh in about 21min.

I wish I were.

The Satiator has a hard limit of 360 watts in all three versions.

200 Wh in 20 minutes requires a 600 watt device.

 

[Scott Adams]

Again , you're misinformed when it comes to the proprietary programming capabilities of the Satiator.

Now you've missed the point entirely. The Satiator has hard limits for amps, volts and watts.

This has nothing to do with the ability to create charge profiles. These are the electrical limitations of the device.

The best place to learn about this is on Grin's website, here's a link-

Satiator - Grin Products - Product Info

The Satiator is a fast and powerful universal battery charger that can be configured to charge a multitude of different battery types and voltages. It allows for partial charging to increase battery cycle life and has an OLED display screen to show realtime charging statistics. This is one of...

www.ebikes.ca

 

[opimax]

Carrying a spare batterries on is only way I can guarantee to get home without planning my route on my long trips. i also value my me time when riding, I avoid people. I don’t Like stopping long enough to make charging effective. I keep my panniers tight when riding unlike that picture

I always have 2 batteries in the bags, balanced

Everybody has different needs and wants

 

[Stefan Mikes]

so if the extra 500w battery sits idle a month at a time is this bad?

It can be left idle. Just re-charge it every 1-3 months. Store at room temperature.

 

[Explorer-1]

I think this question has been pretty much more than answered, and since it is really a personal thing, with some possible correlation with particular models. There is not much more to say on the mater without some more specific parameters to work with, so this is just what works for me personally.

Spare batteries are a must.

1. I travel further than I can go on my e-bike with a 625Wh battery.
2. When returning sometimes I like to go faster and a fresher battery helps a lot with that, as the speed increase with a full battery is about 30% faster, maybe a bit more.
3. I'm very often not quite sure how far I will go, or what the actual terrain will be like in my trips, I often explore places and routes I've never been on, and often the maps are out of date and detours are required, or new options have opened up.
4. Charging can take a while, especially after a long trip, I may have another trip to do before I can fully recharge, I always like to leave with a full battery.
5. Battery failures are possible, and I would not want to be without my bike; it's become essential.
6. For my 625Wh bike I have 3 batteries, 1 has a lot more miles on it than the other 2. I may increase the capacity of one of the batteries to 825Wh at some point.
7. I've only ever need all 3 batteries once, maybe twice but it was likely only essential the one time and it was planned before leaving. So one is more of a real backup than a regular user.
8. Yes carrying extra batteries can be an issue I put them in my Panniers, but I usually only carry 1 spare, and that leaves me plenty of cargo room with my setup.
9. Batteries can go obsolete forcing a battery rebuilt if the precise battery is not longer available. A real pain, and I see as one of the biggest issues with e-bikes. A lot of early adopters have felt the pain. There are options, but sometimes it's just more cost effective to buy a new bike. I'm happy with my first bike, it is easy to keep running no worries about it being made obsolete or really expensive to fix.

That said, I bought my second bike with a larger battery specifically so I could make 'known trips' with only 1 battery. However I don't know yet how far that battery on that bike will take me in my usual terrain with my usual pace. That will be hard to determine with only one battery, so I'm working on a solution to that. I don't like having one battery and since the second one is not just expensive, I'm OK with that, it's a rip-off and I'm not OK with that; So I'm working on other solutions.

With a second bike though, some of the reasons for the second battery don't apply because I can always use the other bike if the one is charging, or can't comfortably make the distance. Having more than one bike can help. The second bike having worse battery support from the vendor is a concern, we'll see how it goes. The rebuild option os always there, but can be a hassle. It's some what ironic that they complained the 'standard-batteries' were too expensive and driving up the price of the bike, and then their own battery is more than 50% more expensive, and their early versions were significantly flawed. Luckily it's a pretty good bike for me I think, but I can see more research would have been a good idea to get past the publicly presented 'pretty-picture' and see the BS.

Happy Trails, Power to the People! (and the bikes!)

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Maybe.

View attachment 45751

Is not the pannier secured at the carrier stay?!

 

[Stefan Mikes]

That said, I bought my second bike with a larger battery specifically so I could make 'known trips' with only 1 battery. However I don't know yet how far that battery on that bike will take me in my usual terrain with my usual pace.

I very much agree with you on all points. Now, I had a "know trip" completed just several minutes ago. Bad surprise! The headwind was so strong the battery was drying up much faster than usually. I had to switch to the Eco mode, shift down and fight the wind at puny speed. Reached home with 6% battery left. It is usually 14%, whole ride in Sport mode (PAS 2).

There are surprises even on known trips. Had I the second battery for my Vado, I would have completed my trip all in the Turbo mode.

 

[opimax]

I believe rotating 2 batteries will last longer the using 1 til a 2nd is needed and using then 2nd up...all-other things the same.

the dual battery set up as Bosch does , use 5% of one the go to the other , repeat is for most is a better way to use 2.

harder to do when you manually switch . It is not hard to change on my bikes, 2 minutes from stopping the bike to riding off. I don’t swap at 5% but if I stop and get offf my bike for something else can be done then, use 3 battterries at 50% rather wear 1 down and then switch

 

[Explorer-1]

....

There are surprises even on known trips. Had I the second battery for my Vado, I would have completed my trip all in the Turbo mode.

Very good point! I've had a similar experience just a couple weeks ago on SuperBowl Sunday.

 

[6zfshdb]

Note: Some batteries are large. The Vado battery snugly fits in the Ortlieb E-mate pannier (as well as most of batteries from big brands); that's why so many e-cyclists love that bag.

Would you guess I'm carrying a large battery in the Ortlieb Backroller here?
View attachment 45746

A word of caution when carrying batteries in a pannier. They can be vulnerable to damage during a spill. I met a guy on the trail a while back who cracked a battery case when riding between two vehicle barrier pylons. As a result, I now use padded protective cases when carrying batteries in my panniers.

 

[Ebiker01]

The best place to learn about this is on Grin's website, here's a link-

Like i said first referring to your inaccurate statement :

"Satiator has hard limits for amps, volts, and watts which take effect depending on where you are in the charge cycle"



- you either took the wrong assumption about it or you haven't studied good enough the articles in the above website about this device.

The limit is OVER RIDDEN using the custom profiles.

Read this again and let in sink in:

Once the voltage limit is changed for say the 48v (54.6 up to 55.2 or 55.6v) , it can keep charging at a high rate(6amps) all the way up to 95-97%.
NO hard limits anylonger at a certain voltage !

Do it on yours and you'll understand what i'm talking about.

But you must know your cells for the 48v pack and don't let them go over 4.3V. Some are 4.1v.


ex: in pic pack is @95% , profile set for 55.2v for a 48v (is fine as long as you know what specific cells your pack has and stop charge once it reaches 97-100%) . It could be set as high as 55.6v for a 6.2ah rate all the way up to 100%.

Had i not adjusted the profile and let it use the common 54.6voltage, those hard limits you've mentioned would have taken precedent.
As soon as it reached 80%, charge rate would have been 4ah , compared to 6.2ah.
And as you know it would have dropped down all the way to 2amps at 90%. No good !!

That's why they made this charger with many settings. But you must know what you're doing.

 

[Explorer-1]

Like i said first referring to your inaccurate statement :

"Satiator has hard limits for amps, volts, and watts which take effect depending on where you are in the charge cycle"



- you either took the wrong assumption about it or you haven't studied good enough the articles in the above website about this device.

The limit is OVER RIDDEN using the custom profiles.
......

Whatever your display is telling you, I see no way of exceeding the 360W limit of the charger. They would not be selling it as a 360W charger if it could do 600W or more, and very likely if they could their high-voltage model would not have a current limit lower than their standard one. I doubt even great cooling would allow their device to reach 600W output. (ps. I have their high voltage one).

The example you show is only doing 342W, so that does not exceed the specs of the charger and does not invalidate anything Grin or Stefan has said about their Charger. It just disproves your statement of 180Wh in 18min.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I believe rotating 2 batteries will last longer the using 1 til a 2nd is needed and using then 2nd up...all-other things the same.

Very important point. On longer loop routes, it makes sense to swap the batteries when reaching the farthest way-point, so neither battery gets dry. It is good for battery longevity. Also, swapping batteries between two consecutive "single battery" rides is good.

 

[Explorer-1]

While swapping between two batteries at 50% of the route or cycling batteries between rides is a valid strategy I specifically chose not to do this, I'd rather have 1 battery with 75% capacity and another one with 95% capacity and eventually replace the 1 battery and get a new fresh battery than at some point replacing both batteries. This is really just my personal strategic choice based on how long I expect the batteries to last, how long I will need them, and how long they will be available for. Although I don't strictly adhere to the 1 strategy because different trips have different requirements, it is my base strategy to use one battery more than the others.