Is anyone trying to solve charging on the road?

[GypsyTreker]

Looking at this with serious interest. Seems to me that having a consistent capacity to go 125-140 miles opens up a lot of choices for routing a big trip. Im only thinking about folk like me, I did a 50mi out and back (100 total) on a road bike more than once or twice in my 30's but the thought of that now is possible only with PAS. Some of you guys doing the field testing should consider a book, blog. I am probably wrong, but it seems like there might be a readership willing to pay for that info if it was done in a DIY fashion and was specific.

 

[dblhelix]

Looking at this with serious interest. Seems to me that having a consistent capacity to go 125-140 miles opens up a lot of choices for routing a big trip. Im only thinking about folk like me, I did a 50mi out and back (100 total) on a road bike more than once or twice in my 30's but the thought of that now is possible only with PAS. Some of you guys doing the field testing should consider a book, blog. I am probably wrong, but it seems like there might be a readership willing to pay for that info if it was done in a DIY fashion and was specific.

I have solar working on a Bosch bike. I offered to put something up but there were zero responses. That said, I am not sold on solar as the best option. I’ve done this ride (last year) with a much smaller panel, and after Santa Barbara it’s going to start getting windy. I have access to a wind tunnel at home so my original plan this year was to test “how large” for my set-up, but this is on hiatus as the wind tunnel is closed at the moment for obvious reasons. I’m currently working on swapping a logic controller for mppt to divert “extra charge” to a useful purpose.

My current challenge Is to be grid-free by September for some safer travel. I wish to limit myself to at most using an outdoor outlet with fast (6A) charging in a pinch.

 

[Hectors Ghost]

Looking at this with serious interest. Seems to me that having a consistent capacity to go 125-140 miles opens up a lot of choices for routing a big trip. Im only thinking about folk like me, I did a 50mi out and back (100 total) on a road bike more than once or twice in my 30's but the thought of that now is possible only with PAS. Some of you guys doing the field testing should consider a book, blog. I am probably wrong, but it seems like there might be a readership willing to pay for that info if it was done in a DIY fashion and was specific.

Knowing that you have the ability to move 100+ miles (fully loaded) is very reassuring and way easier psychologically if it's not an out-n-back ride. But it isn't something people are going to want to do much, especially if there are 4 or more hours of charging time added during the heat of the day to the time spent on the bike. And that's only if you have enough solar ability to charge at 300W or more, a single 100W panel isn't going to do the trick even if you attempt to have it collecting while riding which I don't recommend to anyone because of wind. The biggest advantage is that when I do find an outlet during the day to use my charger I can pull the panel out and charge both packs simultaneously. Just remember that the second you rely on a solar panel for charging it will rain for a week straight. There is never a lack of people trying to capitalize (money, sponsors, recognition, thumbs-up, or even silly little emojis from strangers) by putting their experience down in a book like its gospel, just look at YouTube and drop a quarter into the Pateron slot and drink in the myopic wisdom. Knowing the base requirements is what's most important, like if you are building an eTouring Bike a frame that can hold a 30Ah pack is essential in my opinion. Knowing what the minimum wattage required to minimize charging time is the most important thing in selecting a panel. Stay safe.

 

[dblhelix]

Knowing that you have the ability to move 100+ miles (fully loaded) is very reassuring and way easier psychologically if it's not an out-n-back ride. But it isn't something people are going to want to do much, especially if there are 4 or more hours of charging time added during the heat of the day to the time spent on the bike. And that's only if you have enough solar ability to charge at 300W or more, a single 100W panel isn't going to do the trick even if you attempt to have it collecting while riding which I don't recommend to anyone because of wind. The biggest advantage is that when I do find an outlet during the day to use my charger I can pull the panel out and charge both packs simultaneously. Just remember that the second you rely on a solar panel for charging it will rain for a week straight. There is never a lack of people trying to capitalize (money, sponsors, recognition, thumbs-up, or even silly little emojis from strangers) by putting their experience down in a book like its gospel, just look at YouTube and drop a quarter into the Pateron slot and drink in the myopic wisdom. Knowing the base requirements is what's most important, like if you are building an eTouring Bike a frame that can hold a 30Ah pack is essential in my opinion. Knowing what the minimum wattage required to minimize charging time is the most important thing in selecting a panel. Stay safe.

I agree with many of the points made here. I’ll add a few more.

The proprietary nonsense*. An example: ‘fast’ charging Bosch in the US. Luckily 6A is enabled in software. I do have the Bosch 6A charger which is non-switching (and came to me with an AUS plug). So I can only use it with a 7lb transformer which is too heavy and bulky to take out on the road. I am adapting a Satiator instead, but that brings me to my next point. This is an expensive hobby.

I worry about our friend above with his flexible Renogy, which is so easy to crack but not cheap. Framed panels are structurally sounder but you get the additional weight. Folding panels are nice but expensive and heavy. I have a 40w folder that weighs more than a 120w flexible.

SoCal is ideal for solar experiments. Most of the rest of the US is subject to the week-long rains. I think it was summer ‘13 when I took off on a longer ride on a non-e bike. It rained continuously from DC-MD-PA-OH-IN-IL-WI, overcast in eastern IA, finally some regular sun about midway through the state. I could imagine solar meeting most of my needs in SoCal but not, for example, In the northeast.

*To avoid going down the Why Proprietary? rabbit hole, I’ll say there are benefits to thePowerPacks as well. Everything is a trade-off.

 

[Hectors Ghost]

The proprietary nonsense*...

Framed panels are structurally sounder but ...

I could imagine solar meeting most of my needs...

I’ll say there are benefits to thePowerPacks as well.

My advice to everyone is to ditch the chargers that come with the undersized batteries production ebike are sold with. They are designed to fully charge a pack as fast as possible without noticeable damage to the pack but cut the number of recharge cycles by as much as 2/3rds... think that's not planned? Don't take that turn to start with and you won't have to try and correct it "down-the-road". Rigid panels are not the way to go for touring on a bike. They are great for RV camping when you can easily carry 3 or 4 but have too many downsides to use on a bike. My 300W panel is only about 2 lbs more than 3 100W rigid panels and is way more durable. Rain can be an issue but you don't need full direct sun for a good panel to collect a full charge just more time. By PowerPack do you mean a solar generator system?

 

[dblhelix]

My advice to everyone is to ditch the chargers that come with the undersized batteries production ebike are sold with. They are designed to fully charge a pack as fast as possible without noticeable damage to the pack but cut the number of recharge cycles by as much as 2/3rds... think that's not planned? Don't take that turn to start with and you won't have to try and correct it "down-the-road". Rigid panels are not the way to go for touring on a bike. They are great for RV camping when you can easily carry 3 or 4 but have too many downsides to use on a bike. My 300W panel is only about 2 lbs more than 3 100W rigid panels and is way more durable. Rain can be an issue but you don't need full direct sun for a good panel to collect a full charge just more time. By PowerPack do you mean a solar generator system?

PowerPacks are the super portable Bosch batteries with built-in handles. Excellent range:weight ratio. Easiest pack to stealth charge. Regarding discharge cycles: my oldest PowerPack is > 3yo with hundreds of full cycles. No discernible range hit yet. I would not be surprised if it outlasts my need for it.

I understand your argument for larger pack - 80% w/o suffering small pack penalty - extend life of battery. Here’s the thing - I charge to 80% for everyday use. I only go to 100% on long rides and am discharging right away after a full charge. I am satisfied with its longetivity and love the easy mobility of these packs. So this isn’t an area where I‘m looking for a workaround.

Note: Bosch has no issue with in-your-face premature obsolescence. I don’t subscribe to a strategy around selling more PowerPacks by having us deplete them rapidly via excessive charging. Poor strategy, as free will is involved. Why do they need to do this when they just blew off 2019 owners with less than a year in by providing more torque via software for only 2020+ owners? They could at least have provided actual assist to 28mph as advertised. When Bosch loses me, it won’t be over the PowerPack. Just sayin’

 

[Hectors Ghost]

PowerPacks are the super portable Bosch batteries with built-in handles. Excellent range:weight ratio. Easiest pack to stealth charge. Regarding discharge cycles: my oldest PowerPack is > 3yo with hundreds of full cycles. No discernible range hit yet. I would not be surprised if it outlasts my need for it.

I understand your argument for larger pack - 80% w/o suffering small pack penalty - extend life of battery. Here’s the thing - I charge to 80% for everyday use. I only go to 100% on long rides and am discharging right away after a full charge. I am satisfied with its longetivity and love the easy mobility of these packs. So this isn’t an area where I‘m looking for a workaround.

Note: Bosch has no issue with in-your-face premature obsolescence. I don’t subscribe to a strategy around selling more PowerPacks by having us deplete them rapidly via excessive charging. Poor strategy, as free will is involved. Why do they need to do this when they just blew off 2019 owners with less than a year in by providing more torque via software for only 2020+ owners? They could at least have provided actual assist to 28mph as advertised. When Bosch loses me, it won’t be over the PowerPack. Just sayin’

PowerPacks... got it. A name for a proprietary battery pack... with a handle. Why's that good? Unless you want to do some curls during the ride. How is it any more or less "easy" to stealth charge a battery with a handle? And do you find the need to be stealthy when you Are charging? I either charge somewhere or I don't, but I don't feel the need to sneak around to do so. Another huge advantage of using large capacity packs is that they can be charged at higher amps (faster) and without damage.

Google Search: Bosch PowerPack - "With 36 volt, 13.4 Amp hour capacity, the PowerPack 500 provides 25% more range than the previous 400 Watt hour PowerPacks and only weighs a few ounces more.

$865.00 WTF!?!?!?!? 482Wh for $865.00? 5.9 lbs. for 482Wh? For the most expensive disposable part (that they design to need replacement as quickly as possible) on the bike? One of my li-ion packs, 58.8V X 35Ah = 2058Wh weighing 17 lbs., less than $700.00 with 1200+ recharge cycles. That gives me 21Ah (60%) of charge to use (per-pack) without any stress on the cells. A PowerPack 500 is less than 1/4 the capacity of a single large pack and 1/3 the weight. You are right... Bosch isn't worried about their customers much even if they are satisfied with so little for so much. "PowerPacks are the super portable Bosch batteries with built-in handles. Excellent range:weight ratio. "... so say, Bosch anyway.

The way you talk about the manufacturer of the ebike you ride yourself is exactly why I tell people there is a far better way to own a high-quality ebike for less money. Even more so when they want to have full assist up to and way beyond 28 mph. The best thing is that anytime I want I can remove or replace the motor and batteries.

As long as you're happy with what you have there isn't a problem I guess. Stay safe.

 

[dblhelix]

PowerPacks... got it. A name for a proprietary battery pack... with a handle. Why's that good? Unless you want to do some curls during the ride. How is it any more or less "easy" to stealth charge a battery with a handle? And do you find the need to be stealthy when you Are charging? I either charge somewhere or I don't, but I don't feel the need to sneak around to do so. Another huge advantage of using large capacity packs is that they can be charged at higher amps (faster) and without damage.

Google Search: Bosch PowerPack - "With 36 volt, 13.4 Amp hour capacity, the PowerPack 500 provides 25% more range than the previous 400 Watt hour PowerPacks and only weighs a few ounces more.

$865.00 WTF!?!?!?!? 482Wh for $865.00? 5.9 lbs. for 482Wh? For the most expensive disposable part (that they design to need replacement as quickly as possible) on the bike? One of my li-ion packs, 58.8V X 35Ah = 2058Wh weighing 17 lbs., less than $700.00 with 1200+ recharge cycles. That gives me 21Ah (60%) of charge to use (per-pack) without any stress on the cells. A PowerPack 500 is less than 1/4 the capacity of a single large pack and 1/3 the weight. You are right... Bosch isn't worried about their customers much even if they are satisfied with so little for so much. "PowerPacks are the super portable Bosch batteries with built-in handles. Excellent range:weight ratio. "... so say, Bosch anyway.

The way you talk about the manufacturer of the ebike you ride yourself is exactly why I tell people there is a far better way to own a high-quality ebike for less money. Even more so when they want to have full assist up to and way beyond 28 mph. The best thing is that anytime I want I can remove or replace the motor and batteries.

As long as you're happy with what you have there isn't a problem I guess. Stay safe.

1. I actually have done curls w/ 2 PowerPacks. Useful little devils.
2. They fit in places where nobody will see them charging. Nice not to be in-your-face about it, although I usually ask first. That’s the olden days when you could go inside for lunch and hang around.
3. They used to be $939+ tax. Yes, they are spendy.
4. I’ve never needed 2058Wh between charges. Or 80% of that.
5. Yes, next large expenditure is far less likely to be Bosch under the current ownership model.

 

[Hectors Ghost]

1. I actually have done curls w/ 2 PowerPacks. Useful little devils.
2. They fit in places where nobody will see them charging. Nice not to be in-your-face about it, although I usually ask first. That’s the olden days when you could go inside for lunch and hang around.
3. They used to be $939+ tax. Yes, they are spendy.
4. I’ve never needed 2058Wh between charges. Or 80% of that.
5. Yes, next large expenditure is far less likely to be Bosch under the current ownership model.

"As long as you're happy with what you have there isn't a problem ..."

 

[dblhelix]

"As long as you're happy with what you have there isn't a problem ..."

Exactly. Life is about trade-offs. I look forward to bumping into you on the road and checking out your set-up. Who knows? You might find something you like about my Bosch set-up. Could happen.

 

[GypsyTreker]

I get the difference of panels on RV's and Sailboats when it comes to wind, weight. On our Rv or the sailboat we cruised in, Solar was a secondary or auxiliary to our generator or shore power. On eBikes, my thinking was along the lines of a min 20ah battery x2 and a range of 100mi so I could do 50 out 50 back. I would plan to have a place to charge( 110v) along the route. Years ago there was a device you could get to let you tap into street or parking lot lights for stealth camping. Anyway back to you guys doing it. Great info.

 

[Hectors Ghost]

Exactly. Life is about trade-offs. I look forward to bumping into you on the road and checking out your set-up. Who knows? You might find something you like about my Bosch set-up. Could happen.

They're pretty. Stylish. New. Like a wife before you get married.

 

[Hectors Ghost]

I get the difference of panels on RV's and Sailboats when it comes to wind, weight. On our Rv or the sailboat we cruised in, Solar was a secondary or auxiliary to our generator or shore power. On eBikes, my thinking was along the lines of a min 20ah battery x2 and a range of 100mi so I could do 50 out 50 back. I would plan to have a place to charge( 110v) along the route. Years ago there was a device you could get to let you tap into street or parking lot lights for stealth camping. Anyway back to you guys doing it. Great info.

If a 30Ah pack fits get it. That will give you the out-n-back range you want with a single pack that you don't have to abuse. Plans are ok but.... better to be prepared for anything. I saw a large RV that the whole top was covered in solar panels, couldn't even see them from the ground.

 

[dblhelix]

They're pretty. Stylish. New. Like a wife before you get married.

Always a Borscht Belt around here.

Take my bike. PLEASE.

 

[Hectors Ghost]

Always a Borscht Belt around here.

Take my bike. PLEASE.

You're showing your age man. Stay safe.

 

[Eric Kuyper]

I worry about our friend above with his flexible Renogy, which is so easy to crack but not cheap. Framed panels are structurally sounder but you get the additional weight. Folding panels are nice but expensive and heavy. I have a 40w folder that weighs more than a 120w flexible.

I tried to split the difference in my mounting. I used aluminum bar for the front and back, allowed the panel to bend in the middle, and am using 550 cord to maintain tension so that vibration and stress is transferred mostly to the aluminum. These were designed for sailboats and other installations where vibration would be near constant, and from all appearances they seem fairly sturdy. Now, if internally any of the stresses cause issues, well that's where I guess I just have to rely on the warrantee, and the company is in bicycle distance for me.

Ck your charge controller. That particular unit shuts off whenever you have no current — even if temporary due to momentary shade. It doesn’t turn back on without manual intervention.

Where did you get that Aevon in the US?

For the MPT, if you save your setting in position 00, and you set it to start in the on position, then when power is restored it starts back up (albeit with the MPPT ramp up time). Had to watch a few tutorials to learn that. On the trailer, I got it from someone who attended a show they were at, they had issues for years getting it to work with their bike (because like mine, it has an extended rear deck) so they wound up giving it to me. Built a hitch for my deck, worked out getting it motorized so now I have two motors working while I'm on the road.

 

[dblhelix]

I tried to split the difference in my mounting. I used aluminum bar for the front and back, allowed the panel to bend in the middle, and am using 550 cord to maintain tension so that vibration and stress is transferred mostly to the aluminum. These were designed for sailboats and other installations where vibration would be near constant, and from all appearances they seem fairly sturdy. Now, if internally any of the stresses cause issues, well the company is in bicycle distance for me.


For the MPT, if you save your setting in position 00, and you set it to start in the on position, then when power is restored it starts back up (albeit with the MPPT ramp up time). Had to watch a few tutorials to learn that. On the trailer, I got it from someone who attended a show they were at, they had issues for years getting it to work with their bike (because like mine, it has an extended rear deck) so they wound up giving it to me. Built a hitch for my deck, worked out getting it motorized so now I have two motors working while I'm on the road.

I see, the “auto-on” is still leaving you with 10-15s gaps, though. Any feel for how often that might be happening? I recall now that when I researched it, I passed bc I was told it cuts out a lot. Might be a different story where you are. How far are you going?

That’s an interesting story about the trailer. It’s the one I wanted last year but could not find a dealer.

 

[Eric Kuyper]

I see, the “auto-on” is still leaving you with 10-15s gaps, though. Any feel for how often that might be happening? I recall now that when I researched it, I passed bc I was told it cuts out a lot. Might be a different story where you are. How far are you going?

That’s an interesting story about the trailer. It’s the one I wanted last year but could not find a dealer.

I've not tried using the charger while moving (charging the standby battery), I've only used it so far when stationary and clear, and under those conditions, there have been no cutoffs. When I get back on the road I'll get some more real world numbers (bringing a multimeter and some other tools). One of the things I have on order is a display screen with a shunt that will tell me exactly what volts and amps are flowing, I'll hook that up to monitor the charging while I'm moving.

How far? If I hit Oregon, I'll turn around . I'm doing this Forrest Gump style, just sorta riding.

 

[Hectors Ghost]

I'm doing this Forrest Gump style, just sorta riding.

That's the best way to find interesting things and places.

 

[webcurl]

I have solar working on a Bosch bike. I offered to put something up but there were zero responses.

I'm curious about your Bosch setup, are you safely using an inverter setup or hacked the Bosch bms / 5VDC requirements or other?