Interesting Company

George S.

Well-Known Member
I got auto-linked to this company on Amazon, thinking they made basic one-speed bikes. But they also offer basic ebikes. Company is in Detroit. They claim to 'assemble' in the US. That seems like a good idea, for quality control.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B016F5C15K?redirect=true&ref_=s9_im_co_g468_i1

The company must be paying for the page on Amazon.

Website:

http://www.ridescoozy.com/

There's been a lot of attention given to mid-drives and Bafang at the value end. The fact remains that for basic riding without major hills, a hub is simple. Direct drives are simpler still. A single speed works really well, from my experience, but it's harder to get exercise. They offer a throttle and a cruise control, which is a nice combo and, again, simple.

Company seems to be doing a few things right.
 
You'd have to ask.

They are offering a 27% discount over the weekend. Around $1200 for the 500w.

Keeping it simple, steel road bike frame, tires, single speed, basic hub, makes sense to me.
 
The maximum amount of simplicity is a good thing, but I would never ride a single speed around here. I am almost constantly shifting my gears as I go up and down hills. But I can see how it would work well for someone who rides more on flat ground, or is willing to let the motor do most of the work on the uphills.
 
Choice is always a good thing...provided one chooses thoughtfully. When I see claims like 'the first electric bike designed for commuting' and the claim 'lightweight' (with a steel frame) but no weight spec - nor any specs made readily available - I realize I'm not their intended customer.

It appears 'Scoozy' is simply another distributor who picked a price point and found a contract manufacturer that could produce a product's pieces at a cost which allows a reasonable return with a no-dealer, direct-sale, web-retail operation. Not an unusual business model tho' not a recommendation in favor of the product per se. Sorry to sound grumpy about this but, whatever these bikes are like, it's also hard to imagine this business model making a healthy contribution to the ebike industry, longer term.
 
Sorry to sound grumpy about this but, whatever these bikes are like, it's also hard to imagine this business model making a healthy contribution to the ebike industry, longer term.
They list it at 41 pounds on Amazon.

It's hard for me to imagine this business model not being the one that wins out in the end. You are basically saying Amazon isn't going to win.

I actually like the fact it has no gears. Nothing to spec there. A lot of times the tires are going to have to be replaced, no matter what bike. A steel frame is a steel frame, and it's not a heavy bike. The thing that always impresses me is that you have a bike, a motor, and a battery. It looks like a Golden motor, so the controller is in the motor, and that's a good motor. Samsung cells. That's it. Those are the parts. I don't know what the frame is. Court reviewed a cheap kit recently, said you could put it on a Walmart bike. I bet it's a bit better than a Walmart bike.

All the big guys have done a great job of keeping America a third tier ebike market, way down the list from Europe. Everything is Chinese anyway, until you get to Haibike and Stromer. They assemble this cheap bike here. That is more than the giant European companies do.

It's pretty clear that the way things are now, the model that prevails, will never turn the tide for ebikes in the USA. If these guys have a plan and an Amazon page, have at it. I like the bike, on paper. I hope they succeed.

I think you have hit on something. It's like there are people who want complexity, a fancy bike, a status bike, something like that. They want dealers and high margins and fancy shows where everyone is on an expense account. (Has it worked?) And there are people who just see the parts, who know that most bikes can be ebikes because this is easy to do. I give these guys credit because they took a basic frame, added a motor, added a battery. Full stop.

We just fundamentally disagree, Jack, which is what these forums are all about.
 
This morning I was reading some of the reviews of electric scooters over on Court's sister site: http://electricridereview.com/ and I was trying to wrap my head around how you can get a scooter like this one: http://electricridereview.com/jetson/bike/ that includes fenders and body fairings, cast wheels, integrated lights, turn signals, horn, mirrors, kickstand, built in storage, capacity for second passenger, front and rear suspension, rugged tires, 48 volt 17 amp-hour lithium battery, 500 watt hub motor, backlit display, and 1 year warranty for just $1800.

How is it that this thing only costs $1800 and a ebike with a lot fewer features can cost $3-4000 and up? I think George is correct that there is something about the business model that might be hard to sustain. I think there will be room in the marketplace for a lot of different niches, but the direct online sales option is going to be a big part of the mix for those who are willing to do some repairs themselves. The cost savings are too dramatic to overlook. Although, there will also be dealer sold ebikes in a more reasonable range like our Magnum's which have a list price of $1700 and which are going to be sold through bike stores.

And as I keep mentioning, I think another approach that has great potential is something like the ShareRoller: http://igg.me/at/shareroller/x/12713097 If it works well, you can put this on a basic but solid $400-500 bike and have an ebike for around $1500-2000 (much less if you already own a bike and/or pre-order the ShareRoller before Dec.2nd and/or take advantage of their current special on a bundle that includes a Schwinn mountain bike and ShareRoller for $799). You would end up with a 30-40 pound ebike that is very ride-able as a pure pedal powered bike with or without the motor mounted, can be worked on in any bike shop, and has a motor/battery unit that could be easily shipped back for repairs.

If options like this take off and work well, it is going to be harder and harder to find a large market for $3-4000 and up ebikes. They will be like the $4000 and up bikes sold to serious racers and fanatics who will pay anything for the best. But just like with a top of the line Lexus or Mercedes which is not twice as much car as a basic Toyota or Ford even though they can cost 2-5 times as much or more, the vast majority of buyers are going to try and find the sweet spot for both price and quality. My guess is that will be more in the $1000-2000 range for ebikes. This Scoozy company is hitting that range and seems to offer a lot for the price if that type of single speed ebike suits your needs, especially at the sale prices.

I will also add that the hub motor approach is ideal for a bike company that sells direct, especially if the controller is inside the motor. If something does fail under warranty or even out of warranty, it is pretty easy to ship out another wheel/motor and just swap them on the bike and the customer is back on the road again. This happened with one of our Magnum bikes and two days later, we had a new wheel and after moving the freewheel, brake disc and tire over, I was back out riding again. The Scoozy bikes would be even simpler with their one-speed gears and rim brakes.
 
Last edited:
Well, I agree there is more than one way to view this kind of product, George. When I smell marketing hyperbole and generic assurances over product detail, I know I'm not their intended customer. But will this initially be embraced by new-to-ebike buyers? Perhaps...but aren't there many other ebikes at this price point already? I'm not sure how this one models a new paradigm.

I don't think that questioning a product Amazon can source, at this one moment in time, is a 'bet against Amazon'. Amazon will carry whatever sells. With no reviews posted yet, we don't know how the Amazon marketplace will respond to the Scoozy. I didn't grasp the logic that 'the big guys', who presumably have the biggest vested financial interests, want to suppress one slice of their market. Admittedly I'm new to ebikes, but the product development and broadening of the supplier base I have been reading about here and elsewhere over the past few years looks quite healthy to me. Nor did I follow that my wanting a dealer is at odds with wanting a healthy ebike industry. I'd say the opposite is true. Lamenting the absence of local ebike dealers seems to be a constant theme here.

Will a cheap ebike, available through a major, transnational retailer and in a bare bones configuration result in more ebike riders, which in turn will help support the aftermarket suppliers? We shall see. But longer term, will Scoozy the distributor also be able to provide the support expected of Scoozy the retailer? Or provide the post-sales supply chain that the buyer expects? Or be around in a few years? My hunch is that the customer who wants a simple, cheap ebike also wants to depend on a seller who can resolve problems when/if they surface. That's where I worry about Scoozy being good for the ebike industry longer term.
 
If a newbie shows up here and wants to try ebiking with zero experience, there is not much choice but to send them to a dealer. It’s too risky to point to a CF campaign or an online dealer, for someone who may not be able to assemble a front wheel.

The people who live in Seattle or San Francisco, and say how wonderful dealers are, represent the ‘one percent’ of ebikers. The dealer close to me let me ride a bike or two. I bought a bike he was discontinuing. I went and looked at another bike, 6 months later, and a year later he was no longer a dealer for that bike. In what sense was he a dealer for the product line?

Most people, in most parts of the country, are forced to accept the fact that ebike dealers are worthless, that it is a completely failed concept. Most people will never see a dealer, or the product line will be shifted, or the dealer will go broke. There are fine dealers, but it’s not a functional model for a product with sales around 200k per year. Yeah, I should wait to buy an ebike until there is a Haibike dealer in my metro area of 30,000 people. I’d love to defend the dealers, pay their high margins for executive levels of service. But I ain’t got no dealer.

So you (anyone) buy online. I buy parts and match the parts to a bike. It’s an afternoon’s work, basically, until you need another part to finish. If you buy a bike online, I’d say keep it simple. As Nirmala points out, the business model that matters is basically what Dell calls “Depot Service”. You send back a part and get another. If you can reduce the replacement parts to a motor and a battery, life is good. If the company goes broke, well, most basic bikes are made from generic parts. You can swap to another battery. Hub motors are somewhat interchangeable. If you don’t buy a fancy bike, with proprietary parts and ludicrously complex electronics, most parts are either 1) the bike any LBS can fix, and 2) parts you just sub out.

I’m not going to defend this bike because I don’t know much about it. The two parts that matter, the motor and the battery, seem to be high grade. They made some good design decisions. They kept the bike simple. They understand that a throttle is a pedal assist, while the big Euro companies demonize throttles, and pretend that pedal assist has some magical value. It doesn’t, and throttles are a great type of pedal assist.

You could argue that the Mega ebike company has guaranteed failure for itself. The product line is too expensive for volume sales. They have dealers where there is wealth. If you live far from their dealers, you can buy from an online discounter, basically. But the online discounter is destroying their dealers where the market supports enough sales. In other words, pretend there is a ‘great’ dealer in the Bay area, Nostromoto. I’m not driving to Frisco, so Nostro is SOL with me. I could buy from a dealer in the Great Lakes region, Nutty Nelly, and she will give me a great deal, but not much else. Her bike is going to be proprietary, so every part will have to come from Nelly.

This sucks. If Haibike doesn’t have a dealer near me, then screw Haibike. I’d go with the online Haibike discounter, but you know that’s not a model that works for Haibike and all those other dealers. The seller that anyone can depend on does not exist. I would say depend of EM3ev, Luna Cycle, and Lectric Cycle, and they basically sell parts. But they have phenomenally good reputations. There are other companies, but I follow these companies.

So, I am going to buy parts that are just out there, build a bike, or buy something basic like this. I’m impressed that this company is trying to make it seem like they don’t just get a few bikes from China and slap their logo on it. If they buy parts, frames, and motors, and assemble the parts, they will have better quality control.

I don’t know who the newbie is going to find, if they want an ebike. They might find a dealer. They might find online forums and reviews. They might just go to Amazon. Walmart and Costco may start to screen bikes and look for a volume bike. In the past, their efforts have been pathetic. What you say about Amazon is correct. Eventually someone may find the right mix and start selling bikes, through Amazon, in high volumes. Why guess who that will be? But I think the simple bike has advantages for warranty issue, parts, etc, and I know that a basic bike works very well.
 
As often happens on these kinds of discussions, the points being made by everyone have value and relevance. And I would guess there are more areas of agreement than disagreement. It is a complex world and so not one approach fits everyone. Interesting that all three of us seem to live in small towns where there are no local ebike dealers, so that option is not easily available (although I recently found out that a bike shop about 45 minutes from here does sell and install Bionx systems, and I think they have electric Electra Townies for sale).

I think the article linked to in another thread on here is instructive about how the ebike market is going in China: https://www.electricbike.com/geoby-one-of-chinas-biggest-suppliers-of-generic-e-bikes-for-export/
Some of the companies mentioned are selling millions of ebikes a year, and from what I could gather, these are not high priced or high quality ebikes, although I think it includes electric scooters which are popular in China. I saw a comment somewhere by someone who lives in China, and he suggested that almost all ebike riders in China never pedal their bikes and just use the electric assist 100% of the time. So the market might be very different than in the West where people are more exercise conscious. But the availability of low priced electric bikes and scooters led to there being 120 million ebikes in China in 2010!
 
Seems I have unintentionally tapped into some pent-up frustration and I don't wish to go there. But these points might take us into more fruitful ground...

"If a newbie shows up here and wants to try ebiking with zero experience..."
'Newbie' is not synonymous with mechanically inept or risk averse. Having nursed a sailboat around 53 countries for 11 years or after keeping airplanes flying, I can turn a wrench...and I'll bet there are many others who are new to ebikes but have similar abilities. So it's 'perspective' - applying existing skills and knowledge in a new setting - that brings me here.

"Most people, in most parts of the country, are forced to accept the fact that ebike dealers are worthless..."
Nirmala made an interesting observation when noting that George, he and I are all oriented around small communities. A lot of the ebike 'sale's pitch' speaks to high density metro areas with traffic congestion...but in smaller communities, the softer vehicular traffic pattern is often matched up with trails and easier commutes. So ebikes could be more relevant in those settings than how they are marketed. I have two ebike dealers 'in my neighborhood'...which admittedly is an elastic concept when located in the Rockies. They are both within a couple of hours flight time in a small plane or a 3-5 hr drive by car, so accessible to me but hardly LBS's. Blue Monkey in SLC, UT and the Spoke Shop in Billings, MT. Tho' both require some effort to visit, both have already been very helpful to me and evoke a fun, supportive style of engagement that I've found affirming to my interest in ebikes. I'm thankful they are both there, even if they aren't just around my particular corner. Perhaps this suggests a third alternative that fills the gap between 'big city ebike dealer' and 'online discount vendor'.
 
I could buy from a dealer in the Great Lakes region, Nutty Nelly, and she will give me a great deal, but not much else. Her bike is going to be proprietary, so every part will have to come from Nelly.

Just so you know.
Our out of state sales only make up 20% of total sales. I suggest you visit the shop before saying someone is "online discounter" ...
How many dependable E-bike dealers out there can assemble 150 local customers?
Customer Appreciation.jpg
 
The article about the Chinese market mentions another business model where you buy a large quantity of Chinese ebikes rebranded to your brand and sell them over here in the US. I discovered a ebike dealer in Phoenix (about 2 hours from me) that is taking this approach: (Link Removed - No Longer Exists)

The prices actually seem high for what you are getting, but I have not looked at the bikes carefully. (Actually I looked a little more closely at this one and it does seem extremely overpriced: (Link Removed - No Longer Exists) )
 
Last edited:
@Crazy Lenny Ebikes

I guess what you are saying is that you don't have lists of discounted prices of the big brands, like Haibikes, on a web page? Maybe if you had a high profile, there would be repercussions? People say you give great deals, but maybe these are people on this Forum, and other well informed ebike buyers. I'm glad you can sustain a dealership. We should all wish for dealers with decent bikes in every price range.

There is a lot of room for ebikes around $1500 that are either simple, or very modular, so that parts can be exchanged for warranty and replacement service. US marketing is going to be what @harryS and @Nirmala have been saying. That is, parts or products from China. Maybe they assemble here, maybe not. Most of the kit market is Bafang mid-drives, which is a bit of a premium. If I just take a nice $400 Bikes Direct bike and put a MAC or Golden or even Bafang hub on it, then buy a $350 battery from LunaCycle, that's about $1000. And that's a good bike. I can't buy a Haibike, because there are no dealers. Haibike makes a damned nice frame. I give them that. I don't know why I care.

Mr. Sondors gave us a multi-week tour of how Chinese factories work. It may be something that requires a presence, at least for a while, to get the specs you want. But clearly the Chinese will build Ali Express into something like Ebay, and surely quality will rise with some degree of accountability (things like reviews and ratings). Amazon will want to sell 'direct'. People will sell on Ebay, on Aliexpress, though websites, through dealers. Simple bikes will just be a basic bike frame with parts, a motor, and a battery. Even the fancy electronics may end up as a bluetooth receiver and a smartphone app. Golden is doing that. Kit manufacturers like LectricCycles sell ready to go ebikes, based on common brands. That should expand.

What, me worry? It's been a great year for ebikes. Not sales, but energy. Many of us finally learned what an ebike is, and it wasn't really what the dealers said. I hope Jason in Detroit has the guts and the stamina to break into the marketplace, but if it isn't him, it will be swarms of others.:D
 
Hi George,

Thanks for the heads up! Just to clear up a few things about our bikes...

#1) We did not go to a contract manufacturer. We designed the bike ourselves, we do not use an off the shelf steel frame, we sent drawings to our manufacturer overseas and use 4130 chromoly steel with reinforced dropouts and some other small changes for mounting the motor and battery which you can't do with pretty much every other single speed/fixed gear bike on the market.

#2) I would prefer to call our bikes "less expensive" instead of cheap :) Most chromoly steel single speed bikes retail for $500-600+ alone. We use velo ergonomic grips which are one of the highest rated grips on amazon, tektro R539 brakes, use our own brake levers and cruise control switch (instead of the 'cheap' ones that come with the GM kits), use kinlin anodized double wall rims, fyxation session tires, etc.

One of the problems in the electric bike market is that electric bikes seem to be judged by their wattage and their battery unlike in the roadie community where people value different levels of component groups. There have been a few other singlespeed e-bikes on the market but they have used cheap components with off the shelf frames and didn't adhere to CPSC guidelines (which many ebikes don't which surprises me).

#3) Right now we are only offering a singlespeed design and there is a reason for that. After interviewing dozens of people who rented pedego bikes every one of them said they enjoyed the bike the most after they put it in the middle gear and left it there. I will admit our bikes aren't for the hilliest places in the country, but they have no problem going up 10-12% grades if you pedal along with the bike. There is also an indescribable enjoyment that comes from riding single speed bikes - you feel more connected with the bike. Our design also doesn't require much maintenance at all, I have been commuting semi regularly with mine for over a year and haven't touched a thing.

#4) I know golden motor isn't the trendy motor, but it does have its benefits. I like the reduced clutter of an internal controller, you can program the controller to whatever voltage and current you want. Using the standard bottle battery mount people can upgrade it with the new 13.6Ah batteries or a 48V battery and get more power out of the motors. Regenerative braking if you so choose.

While our bikes look simple, that is by design. It is difficult to highlight the features over the internet but whether or not people are willing to pay significantly more to see the bikes in person and cover the dealer margin is debatable.

We plan on releasing a few more models in 2016 based on the feedback we have received that will also be our own design and assembled and shipped out of Detroit. There is a lot of change happening in the city right now and we are working alongside many others to make sure the resurgence of cycling here continues and spreads.

If anybody has any questions don't hesitate to ask!

-Jason
 
If I just take a nice $400 Bikes Direct bike and put a MAC or Golden or even Bafang hub on it, then buy a $350 battery from LunaCycle, that's about $1000. And that's a good bike.

Hi George,

Interesting thread. For my $.02, I think the ideal cost efficient method would be an online company...like Bikes Direct that sold "kits" that included a bike/motor and electronics/battery with detailed assembly instructions and product support. If people are willing to buy Ikea furniture and assemble it, they would certainly be able to retro a bike.

Court J.

PS. for what it's worth, unless you want a very specific bike that can't be retrofitted, or you don't mind spending the money, $2,000 is about the outer limit on what someone should pay for a very capable "kit" ebike.
 
Hi Court,

Last year, when you posted your installation of the BBS02 on the Elite, it didn’t seem quite real. I looked at bikes and at reviews, and saw an integrated object, an ebike. Once you see parts, it’s something completely different. I have a couple of thousand miles on an Elite, with a front MAC, and it’s hard for me to find any fault with the motor or the BD bike as an ebike.

If people could configure the bike a bit more, with a frame, a motor, and a battery, that would take things to another level. I like hub motors, more upright frames, big batteries, a Brooks style seat, and good meters. All I want is a right hand twist throttle. I’m leaning toward the 8 speed internal hub, which pushes the motor off the rear. I wish I still had hydraulic disk brakes.

The hubs are not showing up very much with the kit companies. There are different issues, than the Bafang, maybe gear clusters, disk caliper clearances, torque load safety issues, wiring, battery locations, arranging things on the handlebar, etc. If you knew the parts would fit and you knew how the wiring would work, how stuff would fit on the handlebar, the line between basic built e bikes and kits would blur. I could take my Elite and find a completely compatible rear hub, make sure the gears/brakes would work, supply a bottle battery, and indicate how to lay out the handlebars. Maybe supply a box for the controller, or use an integrated controller like the Golden or Bafang MD’s.

The advantage of hub motors is clearer when you just build one bike. You just need one wheel, not different sizes, widths, disk and no disk. And hub motors are cheaper.

If you could tell the total Newbie (who could assemble an Ikea bunk bed, at least) you would get ALL the parts and it would all fit together, it would make a difference. At $1500, it's a lot easier to just buy a Scoozy or a Cross Current, right now.
 
I would agree with George and highlight the cabling problems. Many do not come with waterproof housings, the lengths are absurd, and you have to pair them with batteries and what not which may require crimpers etc. We have special cables made for us that you would not otherwise get with a standard kit (amongst other modifications). I don't think myself or any of the other companies similar to mine have anything against people building their own e-bikes - that is how I started. If we want e-bikes to grow in popularity and really make a difference in solving urban transportation problems we need easy to use, low maintenance, and fun bikes that appeal to people that have no understanding of basic electronics or working with their hands.
 
Back