Interesting Brose, Bosch, Yamaha, Shimano Comparison

WinterKill · Sep 23, 2020

Interesting video comparing 2021 emtb motors.

Dallant · Sep 23, 2020

Trek wins! It’s a CX, right?

I’m not impressed. As a ”test” its weak on a number of levels. Seat of the pants opinions. No info on gearing, tires, battery, yada, yada. The rider makes 4 runs before the final so he could be gassed or finally warmed up properly. Absolutely no real measurement to compare except nM.
They need to take a lesson from car testing and get a dynamometer sort of testing rig while measuring wattage output under stress.
The noise is limited by the mic/recorder sensitivities.

Stefan Mikes · Sep 23, 2020

Super interesting!

@Dallant, of course these tests were not scientific, and every e-MTB make/model is made differently. No need to draw conclusions. Any e-MTB motor has its pros and cons. For example, the Yamaha PW-X2 in my Giant Trance E+ seems to be a very powerful motor, yet I suffer from the motor noise (exactly same as recorded in the video). It this respect, the new Shimano EP8 is the winner, yet the motor is clunking on descents... Compromise has to be accepted.

Interestingly, Specialized 2.1 (Brose S Mag) motor used in e-MTBs is noisy, while the 1.2/1.3 (all versions) as used in Vado and Como is silent, which cannot be said about the motor in the bike you own, right?

Not that I say anything wrong about your Allant+, no. A very good e-bike indeed. (But you have the Purion, hehe).

Akrotiri · Sep 23, 2020

Stefan Mikes said:
Super interesting!

@Dallant, of course these tests were not scientific, and every e-MTB make/model is made differently. No need to draw conclusions. Any e-MTB motor has its pros and cons. For example, the Yamaha PW-X2 in my Giant Trance E+ seems to be a very powerful motor, yet I suffer from the motor noise (exactly same as recorded in the video). It this respect, the new Shimano EP8 is the winner, yet the motor is clunking on descents... Compromise has to be accepted.

Interestingly, Specialized 2.1 (Brose S Mag) motor used in e-MTBs is noisy, while the 1.2/1.3 (all versions) as used in Vado and Como is silent, which cannot be said about the motor in the bike you own, right? Not that I say anything wrong about your Allant+, no. A very good e-bike indeed. (But you have the Purion, hehe).

Dallant is right though, the test lacked scientific data but was awash in histrionics,hyperbole and heavy breathing. I've never seen anyone get so out of breath in 20 seconds up a 30 degree incline on an e-bike like that before. Nonetheless the Bosch seemed the best all-rounder.

As for the display on the allant line it's compatible with the Purion, Intuvia, Kiox,Nyon and smartphone hub.

Dallant · Sep 23, 2020

Stefan Mikes said:
Super interesting!

@Dallant, of course these tests were not scientific, and every e-MTB make/model is made differently. No need to draw conclusions. Any e-MTB motor has its pros and cons. For example, the Yamaha PW-X2 in my Giant Trance E+ seems to be a very powerful motor, yet I suffer from the motor noise (exactly same as recorded in the video). It this respect, the new Shimano EP8 is the winner, yet the motor is clunking on descents... Compromise has to be accepted.

Interestingly, Specialized 2.1 (Brose S Mag) motor used in e-MTBs is noisy, while the 1.2/1.3 (all versions) as used in Vado and Como is silent, which cannot be said about the motor in the bike you own, right? Not that I say anything wrong about your Allant+, no. A very good e-bike indeed. (But you have the Purion, hehe).

I’d just like to see a more professional/thorough testing regimen so prospective buyers can have something to really compare them by. I really don’t care which one wins and, as I’ve said here several times, the CX motor in my Allant is quite noisy.

Stefan Mikes · Sep 23, 2020

Frankly saying, all motors demonstrated are perfect e-MTB ones. It is not only the motor that makes the e-MTB, and it is not the motor that makes the MTB. All in all, rider's skill is the most important, that's why Specialized 1.1 (Mahle) motor used in Levo SL is winning acclaim, despite of low torque and small battery...
Just saying.

Deacon Blues · Sep 23, 2020

I'm just glad someone made this video. I enjoyed watching it.

Akrotiri · Sep 23, 2020

Deacon Blues said:
I'm just glad someone made this video. I enjoyed watching it.

These days the world seems to be full of complainers, but has very few doers. I know, I know it's just your opinion, but what have you guys (Dallant & Akrotiri) done that's better?

Well the guy made a product comparison on YouTube. Presumably anyone who watches it will appreciate, like, dislike, learn, be entertained or even critique it. YouTube has a thumbs down option for a reason. I'll speak for myself and say that I was mildly entertained and critiqued his critique. Don't know why that bothers you and why you would ask a fellow EBR member what I or someone else on this forum has done better?? And I'm not sure what your even asking tbh. But in any case I can assure you I've accomplished a lot more than simply posting a few videos on youtube.

SoCalDave · Sep 23, 2020

Akrotiri said:
I've never seen anyone get so out of breath in 20 seconds up a 30 degree incline on an e-bike like that before.

I didn't see or hear anywhere in the video that it was claimed to be a 30 degree incline. Maybe I missed that. From some of the side shots, it looked more like 30% instead of 30 degrees. 30% is still plenty steep. I'm thinking if most of us put out an all out effort sprinting up a hill for 20 s, we'd be breathing hard, whether we were pedaling an ebike or an acoustic bike. I assume in the tests the rider put out an all out effort, but being on an ebike, he completed the climb in something like 20 s or so, instead of something like maybe 40 s or so on an acoustic bike.

Stefan Mikes · Sep 23, 2020

We don't need to quarrel on this usually friendly Forum, especially as there's nothing to quarrel about. I simply enjoyed the video, same as I enjoy watching the Electric Mountain Bike Network videos although I'm not and won't be a true MTBer, eh?

Deacon Blues · Sep 23, 2020

Akrotiri said:
Well the guy made a product comparison on YouTube. Presumably anyone who watches it will appreciate, like, dislike, learn, be entertained or even critique it. YouTube has a thumbs down option for a reason. I'll speak for myself and say that I was mildly entertained and critiqued his critique. Don't know why that bothers you and why you would ask a fellow EBR member what I or someone else on this forum has done better?? And I'm not sure what your even asking tbh. But in any case I can assure you I've accomplished a lot more than simply posting a few videos on youtube.

Will that be cheese with that whine?

Latitude · Sep 23, 2020

I found the video interesting and entertaining. If not scientific, it increased my knowledge about e-bikes another little bit.

Dallant · Sep 23, 2020

Deacon Blues said:
I'm just glad someone made this video. I enjoyed watching it.

These days the world seems to be full of complainers, but has very few doers. I know, I know it's just your opinion, but what have you guys (Dallant & Akrotiri) done that's better?

Dallant said:
I know, it’s just your opinion...you think that some guy rides 5 ebikes up a hill and tells us what he thought and that neither Akrotiri or I have done anything better in our lives?

So you’re complaining about me offering constructive criticism?
As a retired government and corporate marketing communications/training curriculum developer, Ive personally produced more than a hundred technical training videos for nuclear plants and process control testing for training, etc, etc. Any one of them was a ton more useful than the worthless bubble gum you got to chew on today but then the world seems full of people who waste time chewing gum.

Deacon Blues · Sep 23, 2020

Dallant said:
Deacon Blues said:
I'm just glad someone made this video. I enjoyed watching it.

These days the world seems to be full of complainers, but has very few doers. I know, I know it's just your opinion, but what have you guys (Dallant & Akrotiri) done that's better?

Dallant said:
I know, it’s just your opinion...you think that some guy rides 5 ebikes up a hill and tells us what he thought and that neither Akrotiri or I have done anything better in our lives?
So you’re complaining about me offering constructive criticism?
As a retired government and corporate marketing communications/training curriculum developer, Ive personally produced more than a hundred technical training videos for nuclear plants and process control testing for training, etc, etc. Any one of them was a ton more useful than the worthless bubble gum you got to chew on today but then the world seems full of people who waste time chewing gum.

One more time........would you like some cheese with that whine?

Dallant · Sep 23, 2020

Weak, very weak.

Taylor57 · Sep 23, 2020

RandallS · Sep 23, 2020

For a video that was mainly about uphill, this thread went downhill in a hurry.

Dallant · Sep 23, 2020

RandallS said:
For a video that was mainly about uphill, this thread went downhill in a hurry.

Yup

ElevenAD · Sep 23, 2020

Dallant said:
Trek wins! It’s a CX, right?
I’m not impressed. As a ”test” its weak on a number of levels. Seat of the pants opinions. No info on gearing, tires, battery, yada, yada. The rider makes 4 runs before the final so he could be gassed or finally warmed up properly. Absolutely no real measurement to compare except nM.
They need to take a lesson from car testing and get a dynamometer sort of testing rig while measuring wattage output under stress.
The noise is limited by the mic/recorder sensitivities.

i agree and i think the tester would also agree, but it is great to hear someones real world opinion after riding them back to back, they all feel different and deliver power in different ways and it was nice to hear some details you wont find on the website.

FlatSix911 · Sep 23, 2020

Back on topic... here is a more detailed comparison test from eMTB Magazine.

The best eMTB motor of 2021 – The 8 hottest motors in test

Which ebike motor is best? We tested seven of the most important motors in our group test and tell you what it’s all about on the trail.

ebike-mtb.com

Manufacturer	Model	Torque [Nm]	Motor weight (kg)
Bosch	Performance Line CX (Click for review)	85	2.79
Brose	Drive S Mag (Click for review)	90	2.98
FAZUA	Evation (Click for review)	55	1.92
Shimano	STEPS E8000 (Click for review)	70	2.89
Shimano	EP8 (Click for review)	85	2.57
Specialized	SL 1.1 (Click for review)	35	1.95
TQ	HPR 120 S (Click for review)	120	3.90
Yamaha	PW-X2 (Click for review)	80	3.06

Interesting Brose, Bosch, Yamaha, Shimano Comparison

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