Interesting article from a dino mtn.bike site as to why e-mtb's shouldn't be allowed on trails

[DDBB]

https://www.welovecycling.com/wide/2016/09/23/e-bikes-shouldnt-allowed-mtb-bike-trails/ The article claims the e-mtb's are too fast to fit in w/ dino bikes. It goes on to say e-mtb riders will cheat with Strava and ruin it for everyone and the final point is my favorite; E-mtb riders will get lost and run out of battery far out into the woods.... It also appears you are out of luck entirely if you live in Washington state.https://www.singletracks.com/blog/t...k-trails-according-new-bill-washington-state/

 

[Dionigi]

This reads more like age discrimination and don’t tread on my hipster bike social media group (Strava). The question is can the older rider be protected by the ADA? Can a state or federal trail limit access older riders?

 

[Mr. Coffee]

As I've said in other threads, mountain bikes are just barely tolerated by land managers without even considering electric bikes and it is understandable that mountain bikers are hanging on by their fingernails to what few access options they have.

As for the Washington State Law, that law actually gives far more to e-bikers (and for that matter e-mtbs) than it takes away.

As for the ADA, you'll notice that there aren't wheelchair ramps on the summit of Denali. Or even on chairlifts at ski resorts. It is pretty well understood that the ADA has very little application to recreational activities.

 

[DDBB]

It was my understanding that before the law was passed. E-mtn bikers could ride the same single track trails as dino mtn. bikers and this privilege has now been removed. No-one is suggesting wheelchair ramps on mtn. bike trails.

 

[Mr. Coffee]

It was my understanding that before the law was passed. E-mtn bikers could ride the same single track trails as dino mtn. bikers and this privilege has now been removed. No-one is suggesting wheelchair ramps on mtn. bike trails.

@Dionigi brought up the ADA. I merely pointed out that placing ADA requirements on an outdoor recreational activity was completely ridiculous.

In Washington state, e-bikes were generally banned from the same trails by administrative practice as they are now formally banned by state law. On the plus side, before the recent state law the status of e-bikes on bike trails and bike lanes was ambiguous and that ambiguity was unlikely to be resolved on the side of e-bikes. So overall I think the WA law is an improvement.

 

[DDBB]

Better to ride an ebike legally than worry about the law not being on your side.. It does appear WA has quite a few areas where ebikes are welcome to ride but single track technical trails are out.

 

[Dionigi]

@Dionigi brought up the ADA. I merely pointed out that placing ADA requirements on an outdoor recreational activity was completely ridiculous.

In Washington state, e-bikes were generally banned from the same trails by administrative practice as they are now formally banned by state law. On the plus side, before the recent state law the status of e-bikes on bike trails and bike lanes was ambiguous and that ambiguity was unlikely to be resolved on the side of e-bikes. So overall I think the WA law is an improvement.

The point was not asking for special treatment but an equal treatment. A 25 year old mtber flying down a single track is as much of a concern as a 65 year old cruising up the mountain. Mountain Bike rides, like surfers, are very territorial on land that is not theirs.

 

[FSRBart]

I find it so interesting. I started riding mountain bikes in the late 80s and remember working with local organizations so that Mountain bikes could gain access to the local trail systems. I remember all the animosity from Horse riders/owners and Hikers. The constant work we had to do as MTB'ers to show we weren't any harder on the trail systems and even sponsored and work on "trail repair" parties to show our concern for the trails....

Now years later I find I'm going to have to "fight" the same group who I helped gain and keep access to trails...

With that said, I do get that the letter of the law in most places clearly states "No motorized vehicles" which an ebike is...

 

[Dionigi]

I find it so interesting. I started riding mountain bikes in the late 80s and remember working with local organizations so that Mountain bikes could gain access to the local trail systems. I remember all the animosity from Horse riders/owners and Hikers. The constant work we had to do as MTB'ers to show we weren't any harder on the trail systems and even sponsored and work on "trail repair" parties to show our concern for the trails....

Now years later I find I'm going to have to "fight" the same group who I helped gain and keep access to trails...

With that said, I do get that the letter of the law in most places clearly states "No motorized vehicles" which an ebike is...

In California class 1 ebikes effectively is not motorized with the same rights as non-motorized bicycles. The Wilder Ranch State Park has “no motorized vehicles “ signs yet allows class 1 ebikes per California law.

 

[Gator]

Posters have made a lot of great points. As far as the discussion about the ADA goes I have seen at every Nat'l Park that I have been to provide access to some parts of the park for individuals with disabilities. IMHO there will have to be a stronger definition of what an ebike is. I would suggest that if it has a hand or foot throttle that it should be restricted to streets. If you peddle to make it go then let them on the trails and paths.

 

[DDBB]

I agree. If you have to pedal to make it go, it should be allowed.. That being said, there is nothing to stop someone from getting outrageous amounts of assist and not fitting in with other wheeled traffic on the trails and that I think; is the real problem

 

[Dionigi]

I agree. If you have to pedal to make it go, it should be allowed.. That being said, there is nothing to stop someone from getting outrageous amounts of assist and not fitting in with other wheeled traffic on the trails and that I think; is the real problem

Class 1 does just that; limits speed and power

 

[DDBB]

Agreed but there's no way it can be enforced or even checked in most cases. .Sure, if it has a throttle it's not a class one but when I test rode a class 2 pedego I specifically asked and was told "just disconnect the throttle right here and presto! it's now a class one"... I think we all know where this is going and there are no easy answers

 

[Bruce Arnold]

With that said, I do get that the letter of the law in most places clearly states "No motorized vehicles" which an ebike is.

It's a legal definition, not a technological one. Here in NC, an ebike is a bike. A motorized vehicle is a different classification. So when it says "no motorized vehicles" here, we cycle merrily on...

 

[Gator]

I agree. If you have to pedal to make it go, it should be allowed.. That being said, there is nothing to stop someone from getting outrageous amounts of assist and not fitting in with other wheeled traffic on the trails and that I think; is the real problem

Yes limits to assist would have to be set. speed limits may also be needed,... and, of course, enforced. I read a review of an ebike with a hand throttle that has a top speed of 40 MPH. These hot rod ebikes are going to ruin it for all of us.

 

[LimboJim]

It's a legal definition, not a technological one. Here in NC, an ebike is a bike. A motorized vehicle is a different classification. So when it says "no motorized vehicles" here, we cycle merrily on...

That may be true on roads, but unfortunately, the Feds and many states consider paved and "natural" surfaces to have different considerations for motorized vs. non-motorized categorization. I feel strongly that Class 1 ebikes should be considered non-motorized on any surface, but staunch MTBers argue otherwise.

 

[DDBB]

"The first one of these that I see on the local trails I’m taking out. See, you need to cull the heard of weaker less capable bikes (or ones that allow weaker and less capable people on the trails). Remember, it’s much more humane to cull the heard of early in the season than let some fat ass tourist run out of go-go 10 miles from the trail head. ".... Actual post from a dino mountain biker.. YIKES

 

[Bruce Arnold]

That may be true on roads, but unfortunately, the Feds and many states consider paved and "natural" surfaces to have different considerations for motorized vs. non-motorized categorization. I feel strongly that Class 1 ebikes should be considered non-motorized on any surface, but staunch MTBers argue otherwise.

No, it's true everywhere -- in NC. There may be some restrictions in some jurisdictions, but never because an ebike is a "motorized vehicle," because it isn't -- in NC. Feds don't regulate this particular kind of thing (except on federal property), such as where you can ride an ebike or a mountain bike or whatever; they leave it up to the states. What other states do is up to them; I was talking about NC. If you can find law or regulation in NC to the contrary, I will cheerfully admit my mistake.