Info overload on first ebike help. 4 months of research

[Sharkbait]

just my 2cents...I think half the legal thing is if you are riding like a maniac and drawing attention your gonna get pinched.

Yeah if you ride like a maniac here youre likely to get killed bc not only is it a bad place to try to drive here (think tourists, 102 yr old people, people from all different states, etc....no bueno) but a bike ride is like a game of survival. Beaides that the roads are so bad from salt air and heat and no budget corrupt tourist state govt that any second you could fly into a hole or hurl headfirst into traffic. Im no speed demon anymore sadly i am stricken with age and thoughts of safety and rules . But still, one miscalculation can hurt for days.

 

[GypsyTreker]

I almost stopped at Crazy Lenny's but my wife, as with Guitar Center, hates waiting around while I kick tires. As far as Ecotric. My best range so far is like 32/33. That was literal. I have yet to have my battery shut down and still had acceptable assistance on PAS 1 and 2. Top speed PAS 5 was 23/24 mph ( honestly I am pretty sure your simply "spinning" the crank at that point and the throttle would have provided the same result). These bikes are akin to a Dolomite by beefier. As to all the electric stuff, if this motor craps out I would probably do a 1000w kit using this platform or go to Lenny's and say screw it, what's $4k at my age? I love trick stuff and my natural tendency is to by the high end out of the gate. But as I discovered with bass guitars, they all push the low-end pretty well, it's mostly desire that makes one upscale, and that's not a bad or good thing. So perhaps your overthinking @Sharkbait and it's time to go to Lenny's and let the heart decide.

 

[Sharkbait]

I almost stopped at Crazy Lenny's but my wife, as with Guitar Center, hates waiting around while I kick tires. As far as Ecotric. My best range so far is like 32/33. That was literal. I have yet to have my battery shut down and still had acceptable assistance on PAS 1 and 2. Top speed PAS 5 was 23/24 mph ( honestly I am pretty sure your simply "spinning" the crank at that point and the throttle would have provided the same result). These bikes are akin to a Dolomite by beefier. As to all the electric stuff, if this motor craps out I would probably do a 1000w kit using this platform or go to Lenny's and say screw it, what's $4k at my age? I love trick stuff and my natural tendency is to by the high end out of the gate. But as I discovered with bass guitars, they all push the low-end pretty well, it's mostly desire that makes one upscale, and that's not a bad or good thing. So perhaps your overthinking @Sharkbait and it's time to go to Lenny's and let the heart decide.

Lol oh im DEF overthinking. Thats my M.O. And mamas dont buy anything indulgent like a $3000 bike without lots and lots of research. Even if price isnt an issue i m a tightwad born and raised. Boomer parents. Depression grandarents. Dollar saved, dollar earned, etc... If I didnt know it was going to be used every day and be fun fore and keep me in shape as i enter this, elderly period of life i would def never spend that on a bike id get a cycle again. And i dont mind high end, i just feel the tech is more on the front end right now, lots will change so its not like a car....in 3 years ebikes will be different ...like computers im not big on having a $5000 laptop its just gonna crash eventually if its not obsolete first. I can get another one then.
So the ecotric sounds a lot like the rover basically. Just $500 cheaper.

My daughter started on a cheap ukelele. Still does songs on it while the washburn lays in the corner....

 

[teskow]

I have a Juiced Rip Current that I purchased Nov. 2019. I have have had good luck with it and love the crap out of it. I ride on mostly bike trails and about 1/3 on some pretty rough very steep hilly dirt trails here in Tucson AZ and it performs very well.
The only trouble I have had is the left brake power cut our didn't work. Juiced promptly sent me a new one.
The Rip Current has a cadence and also torque sensor setting. Hydraulic breaks and a 9 speed shifter.
Several times I have tried the cadence but I like the torque sensing system much, much better than cadence. For me I wouldn't even think of buying an e-bike without torque sensing. It just feels smooth and natural.
I tried step through Rads at a local showing when thinking of buying a bike for my wife . I liked the bikes quite well, but not the cadence only system.
For me it has to have torque sensing and a hand throttle.

 

[TomD]

Honestly I think the OP will be fine with an inexpensive rear hub. Even Crazy Lenny says most of his walk in customers prefer rear hub after riding them. I wouldn't spend too much. Maybe consider the entry level Ride1Up for $1099. It will get you started without breaking the bank.

You may want to step up to a Rad if you want fat tires for the beach. I suppose you could also look at M2S if you want hydraulic brakes, but still no torque sensing.

Surface 604? Nice bikes, you get torque sensing, good components, but you'll probably want to go with larger battery and now you're more than twice the price of the entry level Ride1Up. Similarly with Juiced. You get torque sensing, 52V batteries, good components, but how much do you really want to spend on a rear hub?

As far as worrying about flats, just invest $80 in tannus armour. Problem solved .

Tannus Armour Inserts

Tannus Armour protects your tube against 90% of common bike flats using 15mm of multi-cell foam. Say goodbye to pinch and puncture flats.

tannusamerica.com

 

[GypsyTreker]

Lol oh im DEF overthinking. Thats my M.O. And mamas dont buy anything indulgent like a $3000 bike without lots and lots of research. Even if price isnt an issue i m a tightwad born and raised. Boomer parents. Depression grandarents. Dollar saved, dollar earned, etc... If I didnt know it was going to be used every day and be fun fore and keep me in shape as i enter this, elderly period of life i would def never spend that on a bike id get a cycle again. And i dont mind high end, i just feel the tech is more on the front end right now, lots will change so its not like a car....in 3 years ebikes will be different ...like computers im not big on having a $5000 laptop its just gonna crash eventually if its not obsolete first. I can get another one then.
So the ecotric sounds a lot like the rover basically. Just $500 cheaper.

My daughter started on a cheap ukelele. Still does songs on it while the washburn lays in the corner....

I often wondered if one or two Chinese factories were simply cranking out build orders for the online branding firms. As to your speculation on the Rover vs the Snow, Sand, Beach Ecotric .... I think Rad has a better guy naming their fatties lol

 

[Sharkbait]

I have a Juiced Rip Current that I purchased Nov. 2019. I have have had good luck with it and love the crap out of it. I ride on mostly bike trails and about 1/3 on some pretty rough very steep hilly dirt trails here in Tucson AZ and it performs very well.
The only trouble I have had is the left brake power cut our didn't work. Juiced promptly sent me a new one.
The Rip Current has a cadence and also torque sensor setting. Hydraulic breaks and a 9 speed shifter.
Several times I have tried the cadence but I like the torque sensing system much, much better than cadence. For me I wouldn't even think of buying an e-bike without torque sensing. It just feels smooth and natural.
I tried step through Rads at a local showing when thinking of buying a bike for my wife . I liked the bikes quite well, but not the cadence only system.
For me it has to have torque sensing and a hand throttle.

How do you feel about the performance of the fat tires ? I looked at juice closely it was one of my top contenders bc the specs and price are just right. Was torn between the rip and cross current tho bc of tires. I do like it has torque sensing even tho i have no idea the difference in feeling im sure its a big deal or it wouldnt be a spec .
How was toras response with the brake issue or did u just fix it yourself?

 

[Sharkbait]

Honestly I think the OP will be fine with an inexpensive rear hub. Even Crazy Lenny says most of his walk in customers prefer rear hub after riding them. I wouldn't spend too much. Maybe consider the entry level Ride1Up for $1099. It will get you started without breaking the bank.

You may want to step up to a Rad if you want fat tires for the beach. I suppose you could also look at M2S if you want hydraulic brakes, but still no torque sensing.

Surface 604? Nice bikes, you get torque sensing, good components, but you'll probably want to go with larger battery and now you're more than twice the price of the entry level Ride1Up. Similarly with Juiced. You get torque sensing, 52V batteries, good components, but how much do you really want to spend on a rear hub?

As far as worrying about flats, just invest $80 in tannus armour. Problem solved .

Tannus Armour Inserts

Tannus Armour protects your tube against 90% of common bike flats using 15mm of multi-cell foam. Say goodbye to pinch and puncture flats.

tannusamerica.com

oh I ll have to check this product out for sure! Thanks for that info!
Yes i did look at ride1up the 700 series i believe? Nice looking bike but wasnt a pedelec i think? Class 2? There was a downer for me cant remember what. M2S the r750 looks great and has an option for 3 " tires which i thot would be a kind of compromise but im not exactly sure about their response time to issues and theres not a lot of info vidoes for fixing on their stuff i saw. They were on the list tho i just read so many reviews of some of these companies that take 2 weeks to respond by email. Dude whats the point. If i ride every day i cant sit for 2 weeks waiting on a proprietary part or drive to crazy lennys 2 hrs away i need someone to answer and troubleshoot so i can fix it. With instructions i can do it i know how to work on stuff i just dont want to lol.
I will def check out the armour stuff ....i worry bc the hub flat and florida sand spurs.

 

[Sharkbait]

I often wondered if one or two Chinese factories were simply cranking out build orders for the online branding firms. As to your speculation on the Rover vs the Snow, Sand, Beach Ecotric .... I think Rad has a better guy naming their fatties lol

oh they are for sure. Some of these frames and bikes are the dang same they just know where to source and i dont want to deal with china directly. Lots of diyers burned by alibaba and etc. No thanks. And some at least design a frame and put the bike togethet but again your essesntially buying the support. If u need it . and a first timer i do. Once i learn the bike and parts and have all the correct tools for it i ll be ok but i would like to know the first 6 months at least somebodys gonna take this thing back if the motor fails or battery is a dud or i cant get the tire off or on to change it and need a spotter. It would benice to have a shop here but honestly, i took my daughters bike in to this little.hole in the wall shop just to get it tuned.....brakes tightened, whatever. This is just a cheap walmart bike for a 13 yr old basically. Charged me $40 to do 10 minutes of work, got it home and the handlebars fell off (which i had put on but he was suposed to be adjusting and checking everything basically....second set of eyes to make sure kids ok before getting on the road with it ) he didnt even check the steering nut. And it was brand new so thats obv one of the things you have to do is set in the steering tube......smh. Thank God she wasnt riding it. So , in reality i dont really know if i would even trust a lbs with my $2000 bike to charge me prob $75 to change a flat and then mess something up. I m ok with taking a chance its a calculated risk but yeah its all chinese and im not sure why noone makes decent ebikes here by now. Odd. So i could just order a tire or tube or wrench or whatever. I have to depend on some guy in canada as the middleman rumner. Blech. Which is why im researching lol.

 

[Sharkbait]

Honestly I think the OP will be fine with an inexpensive rear hub. Even Crazy Lenny says most of his walk in customers prefer rear hub after riding them. I wouldn't spend too much. Maybe consider the entry level Ride1Up for $1099. It will get you started without breaking the bank.

You may want to step up to a Rad if you want fat tires for the beach. I suppose you could also look at M2S if you want hydraulic brakes, but still no torque sensing.

Surface 604? Nice bikes, you get torque sensing, good components, but you'll probably want to go with larger battery and now you're more than twice the price of the entry level Ride1Up. Similarly with Juiced. You get torque sensing, 52V batteries, good components, but how much do you really want to spend on a rear hub?

As far as worrying about flats, just invest $80 in tannus armour. Problem solved .

Tannus Armour Inserts

Tannus Armour protects your tube against 90% of common bike flats using 15mm of multi-cell foam. Say goodbye to pinch and puncture flats.

tannusamerica.com

Ive also heard issues with these 52v batteries....connectors...contacts...flaking out......something about the fluidity of the motor controller battery combo or something not quite worked out. That made me a little sketchy on that large a battery also. Nice if it works but i read somebody review and say they got more range from their original ccx from 3 or 4 years ago than with the new battery so.......more bugs.....i like the mostest but also i like tried and true.

 

[TomD]

I didn't see a 3" option at M2S just 4" fat. It looks like they take an extra $100 off in cart but they charge $175 shipping so the R750 is about $1675 shpped.

M2S All Terrain R750 - Premium High Performance Electric Fat Tire Bike

The M2S Bikes All Terrain R750 Electric Fat Bike features fast speeds thanks to the throttle and pedal assist, 8-speed Shimano gears, high performance 48 volt battery, rack with integrated lights, air suspension fork, 4.5" rugged off road tires and full color display with USB port.

shop.m2sbikes.com

That bike has the RST GUIDE front fork. Seems their other R750 have RST MOZO. Not sure the difference. They also have a FS R750 for the same price. I'm not sure how well FS works for fat tires and rear hub (lots of unsprung weight) but may be a cushier ride.

All Terrain Series

The All Terrain Series The All Terrain’s name says it all, it is built to handle anything you can throw at it. The M2S Bikes’ All Terrain electric fat bikes are meant to give you the power to explore your world. From deep sand to fresh snow and everything in between, the bikes have everything...

shop.m2sbikes.com

Again, no torque sensing on their rear hubs which may or may not matter to you. From their reviews seems support is decent. No personal experience with them though.

 

[Sharkbait]

How do you feel about the performance of the fat tires ? I looked at juice closely it was one of my top contenders bc the specs and price are just right. Was torn between the rip and cross current tho bc of tires. I do like it has torque sensing even tho i have no idea the difference in feeling im sure its a big deal or it wouldnt be a spec .
How was toras response with the brake issue or did u just fix it yourself?

Oh my bad i see u said he sent u one. Well....juiced has been on the list from beginning. ...........and they are on sale. Just ugh so many issues i wonder if its just more problems bc its a more popular brand than most .

 

[Sharkbait]

I didn't see a 3" option at M2S just 4" fat. It looks like they take an extra $100 off in cart but they charge $175 shipping so the R750 is about $1675 shpped.

M2S All Terrain R750 - Premium High Performance Electric Fat Tire Bike

The M2S Bikes All Terrain R750 Electric Fat Bike features fast speeds thanks to the throttle and pedal assist, 8-speed Shimano gears, high performance 48 volt battery, rack with integrated lights, air suspension fork, 4.5" rugged off road tires and full color display with USB port.

shop.m2sbikes.com

That bike has the RST GUIDE front fork. Seems their other R750 have RST MOZO. Not sure the difference. They also have a FS R750 for the same price. I'm not sure how well FS works for fat tires and rear hub (lots of unsprung weight) but may be a cushier ride.

All Terrain Series

The All Terrain Series The All Terrain’s name says it all, it is built to handle anything you can throw at it. The M2S Bikes’ All Terrain electric fat bikes are meant to give you the power to explore your world. From deep sand to fresh snow and everything in between, the bikes have everything...

shop.m2sbikes.com

Again, no torque sensing on their rear hubs which may or may not matter to you. From their reviews seems support is decent. No personal experience with them though.

Ah they all run together at this point. The torque sensing well, since i havent driven them to really tell the diff it prob wouldnt matter. Again the juiced has it for 1699 on the ccx so i figure a 1699 ccx and a 1499 rover for offroad or something similiar im still at 3 grand instead of a 2700 biktrix .....oh yeah thats who had the tire choices. You kinda "pick your price " or components with them. By the time i went to check out with the same batt and options on the juiced it was about 2700. So , i could get 2 lower priced bikes. Juiced and luna to me have the spec/ price point to beat....but i think everyone at luna is pretty much stoned so not really for the novice owner The escooter i use now is just off or on basically. I mean top speed is like 15 (more like 13 now prob after a year). Throttle isnt like fast or slow just go, stop lol. And the brakes are getting worn down so takes a little planning to stop haha. But its just for fun to kick around at this point not using everyday so thats ok i just store hop with it. Anything at this point would probably be great with me just to get on the dang bike and ride and stop reaearching it

 

[Sharkbait]

Honestly I think the OP will be fine with an inexpensive rear hub. Even Crazy Lenny says most of his walk in customers prefer rear hub after riding them. I wouldn't spend too much. Maybe consider the entry level Ride1Up for $1099. It will get you started without breaking the bank.

You may want to step up to a Rad if you want fat tires for the beach. I suppose you could also look at M2S if you want hydraulic brakes, but still no torque sensing.

Surface 604? Nice bikes, you get torque sensing, good components, but you'll probably want to go with larger battery and now you're more than twice the price of the entry level Ride1Up. Similarly with Juiced. You get torque sensing, 52V batteries, good components, but how much do you really want to spend on a rear hub?

As far as worrying about flats, just invest $80 in tannus armour. Problem solved .

Tannus Armour Inserts

Tannus Armour protects your tube against 90% of common bike flats using 15mm of multi-cell foam. Say goodbye to pinch and puncture flats.

tannusamerica.com

Is this armour an injectable or id have to remove and insert then replace tubes etc...? How does it compare to tuffies? If its an insert id prob wait till i had to take the tire off the first time so then and should i slime the tires right away or does that make them too hard to patch on the road and just a mess. Never used slime before.

 

[TomD]

No comparison to tuffies or slime. Way more protection and you can actually ride on flats if you havppen to get one. Easy installation. Just one of many vids on youtube:

 

[pxpaulx]

I'd also echo the idea of going to Lenny's 100% - a 90 minute drive?! You need some mid-west driving mentality here for perspective. I've been to Lenny's in Madison twice (and bought a total of 6 bikes from them at this point!)...that is a 3.5hr drive from Minneapolis! First time it was even a day trip (2nd time used some miles to stay overnight).

As for hub vs mid-drive, I'd boil it down to this. If you have ever in the past been a relatively avid cyclist (even if it was many moons...I used to ride a lot in my teenage years), you'll appreciate the assist of a mid-drive. Conversely, if bikes haven't ever really been a big part of your life, the push of a hub motor makes the riding experience slightly more fun, but a little more disconnected from the riding experience.

 

[Sharkbait]

I'd also echo the idea of going to Lenny's 100% - a 90 minute drive?! You need some mid-west driving mentality here for perspective. I've been to Lenny's in Madison twice (and bought a total of 6 bikes from them at this point!)...that is a 3.5hr drive from Minneapolis! First time it was even a day trip (2nd time used some miles to stay overnight).

As for hub vs mid-drive, I'd boil it down to this. If you have ever in the past been a relatively avid cyclist (even if it was many moons...I used to ride a lot in my teenage years), you'll appreciate the assist of a mid-drive. Conversely, if bikes haven't ever really been a big part of your life, the push of a hub motor makes the riding experience slightly more fun, but a little more disconnected from the riding experience.

Yeah i ve had my share of commuting, i lived in dc for years and drove an hour to workeach way so its not necessarily that its so far, its more that im 45 and a single parent who works all week and doesnt feel like taking a whole saturday driving just to look at bikes when the whole point to me of buying from a lbs is having someone local to help work on it when needed. A day trip is not gonna be that realistic on a regular basis so id be going really just to ride them and, there are like 20 bike shops within 20 miles of me and ive been to 6 or 7 already so i havent been real enthused about going to more since it didnt seem any of those cared to either learn about them or sell one. . But i guess i may have to go i guess.... i was hoping to just order online...it seemed relatively straightforward....a bike, a motor.....but im starting to get the feeling that ebikes just arent evolved far enough that anyone online is making and delivering them with consistency. 2 hrs each way is a pita.

 

[Sharkbait]

Went to crazylennys site for fla. Not great reviews a lot about no repairs. The bike selection they have posted are some assortment of mixed unknowns and really the magnum is the only one in a reasonable price range that even meets close to my specs of other bikes for the price. Since i cant drive 4 hours for repairs on the regular, there is a place here that carries a few metros so i can always check those out here at the mish mash place but from the reviews and inventory i saw...lots of stromers, bulls, hiabikes and no names......dont know thats worth a drive. Gonna check a couple places this weekend and see if i can ride a fat tire, street tire and a middrive and hub. That should tell me what i need to know. Not prepared to spend a whole day and settle or come home and end up having to order anyway. Shame.

 

[ruffruff]

I got to your point, just soooo much to consider!
I finally told myself I gotta pull the trigger on one of my top three.

If you buy from a dealer that has a good history it will be 6 of one half a dozen of another.
A lot of the bikes in your price range are very similiar and you will more than likely love which ever you choose. At some point you are splitting tiny hairs and gotta s*it or get off the pot.

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

Not great reviews a lot about no repairs.

Ever since the BH 50% off thread started here on the forum, Lenny's online page has been bombarded by fake negative reviews and scammers trying to malign the reputation.

Overstock on BH Easymotion Bikes over 50% off on some models

Hey ebike community, we have some older models of hardtail and full suspension emtb's that may interest you. These models still carry BH's warranty and have all been checked out. I have around 8-10 of each model left so we're just blowing out the prices on them to make room for some newer stuff...

electricbikereview.com

His webmaster is trying to fight them off!
They come in hoards and leave a single star review. This is one of the downsides of digital age: anyone can throw dirt at you and it is upto you to regain your reputation.
He had 4.7 stars on google page and in the last 3 weeks, it has gone down to 4.2.