Influence of new electric motorcycles on ebike features?

[GoBob]

Harley Davidson has announced they will be launching an electric motorcycle in 2019. Smaller companies such as Zero Motorcycles already sell electric motorcycles. Zero has a whopping 7.2 kWh modular swappable battery, giving their bikes a 91 mile range and blazing fast 0-60 acceleration. When looking at these new products I begin to wonder if they will influence future ebike features and capabilities. For example, will we see better regenerative braking or motor designs, better drivetrains, superior integrated lighting systems, etc. What new and improved features will we see in ebikes in 2021? It seems the opportunities are endless.

 

[Bruce Arnold]

I think there will be ideas swapping back and forth between ebikes and electric motorbikes. Plenty of innovation to be had on both sides.

Barring some major technological improvement, I don't think regen will ever be a big deal for ebikes. You just don't have enough mass and/or speed to make it effective. It's kind of like those 10,000 Ah cell phone chargers with the solar panel on top. They "work," but don't produce enough wattage to even keep the charger topped up.

The rest of what you mention -- drivetrain, motor, lighting -- I think will benefit from cross-pollination.

 

[6zfshdb]

There are several electric motorcycles being introduced soon:

https://electrek.co/2018/12/28/electric-motorcycles-coming-2019/

Improved battery technology is one thing that may translate to e-bikes. Considering their weight, these motorcycles boast impressive range with batteries that aren't that much larger than those we see currently on e-bikes. Regen braking may account for some of the difference but other factors must also be involved.

 

[PaD]

The density of the batteries seems to be high but I’m not totally blown away by range. However these motorcycles weigh a lot more than our ebikes and go a lot faster.
You can choose the 7.2kWh battery or a 14.4kWh for a Zero S ( looking at 2018 models) To go advertised 200 miles city riding ( or 100 highway) you need to add the 3.6kWh power tank = total 18kWh
Take a look at the Zero website and you will find that the weight difference between 7.2 and 14.4 is 95lb (or 45kg). 1kWh adds 13lb.
500Wh is 6.5lb. Isn’t that just about normal weight for an ebike battery? But the Zero batteries sure seem to be more compact.
But I think ebike riders will benefit from all and any battery evolution. Maybe electric motorcycle will benefit from the ebikes need for light weight batteries.

 

[steve marino]

As someone who cut his teeth on motorcycles, I don't think there will be that much crossover between electric motorcycles and eBikes. They're vastly different creatures. No pedal assist on a motorcycle, huge weight differences, huge power difference, all that. The battery needs are quite different too. When the motorcycle runs out of juice, it stops. When the eBike runs out of juice you can still pedal it home. You may not like to do it, but you can. I wouldn't want to see a lot of crossover anyway because if ebikes became more like motorcycles we'd have to register them, get insurance, pay all sorts of taxes on them, pay for inspections, all that. I'm perfectly happy with a bike w/ an electric motor that doesn't need any of that.

The motorcycle manufacturers will be very happy about going electric though. Electric motors are really simple compared to internal combustion engines, and you can simplify the drive trains. No need for a clutch, and since electric motors develop full torque at stand still, you can eliminate a lot of the gears.

Your usual Harley rider isn't going to be trading in his bike for one, but the commuter and cafe racer types will be interested. Unfortunately, one of the safety features of gas engined motorcycles will be eliminated. Having those loud pipes lets everyone know you're there. I'm not sure that I'd want to ride a silent motorcycle for just that reason. As a pedestrian, I've almost been run down by a couple of Prius vehicles already.

 

[6zfshdb]

Just for the sake of argument, what is the advantage of an electric motorcycle over a gas powered model?

The purchase price is about the same. License , registration and insurance costs should be about the same. In the case of automobiles, there is a cost savings in fuel. Motorcycles use far less fuel so there is no significant savings involved.

Correct me if I'm missing something but less weight, less noise (not a plus for all buyers) , less maintenance and perhaps a slight improvement in performance are the only advantages I see. In my mind, these plusses are more than outweighed by the limited range of an electric motorcycle and the uncertainty of being able to find a charging location.

I've owned motorcycles most of my adult life. Were I in the market for one today, I don't think I would seriously consider an electric model.

 

[GoBob]

I would generally agree with you. I've had a 1500cc twin bike with performance pipes for many years. However, I can see the appeal of a quiet bike with instant, powerful acceleration with low maintenance for rides when I'm in that kind of mood.

The Emotorcycle may appeal to a younger generation that has more of a focus on "greener" "cleaner" transportation.

My posting was more about technological innovations that may arise with the development of new Emotorcycles that could benefit our ebikes. I would hope, for example, that we'll see improvements in ebike drivetrains, brakes and batteries in future offerings.

 

[rich c]

I would generally agree with you. I've had a 1500cc twin bike with performance pipes for many years. However, I can see the appeal of a quiet bike with instant, powerful acceleration with low maintenance for rides when I'm in that kind of mood.

The Emotorcycle may appeal to a younger generation that has more of a focus on "greener" "cleaner" transportation.

My posting was more about technological innovations that may arise with the development of new Emotorcycles that could benefit our ebikes. I would hope, for example, that we'll see improvements in ebike drivetrains, brakes and batteries in future offerings.

We can already buy 4 piston hydraulic disc brakes, belt drives, and incredibly efficient batteries. I think your future is already here.

 

[GoBob]

I agree we've come a long way. I also believe we could see some Improvements. For example, the common ebike power source - a plastic case stuffed full of 18650 Li-ion batteries seems low-tech to me. Maybe electric motorcycles, lawnmowers, Segways and golf carts will bring us new power options. ?

 

[JRA]

For example, the common ebike power source - a plastic case stuffed full of 18650 Li-ion batteries seems low-tech to me. Maybe electric motorcycles, lawnmowers, Segways and golf carts will bring us new power options. ?

Seeing as how even Tesla auto's, arguably one of the most advanced transportation vehicles available, use basically plastic cases stuffed full (up to 5,000) of 18650 Lithium battery cells per car I don't think the concept is as low tech as you think. The biggest advancement of the Tesla Model S was to slightly up the size of the battery cells to 2170.

Until a whole new chemistry and style of battery comes along, of which every day there are efforts being made, single cell batteries ganged together and stuffed into plastic cases is going to be the norm.

 

[GoBob]

I'm sure you're right. I'll give up thoughts of better batteries until new innovations appear on the market. BTW, I love the 18650s for my various flashlights and headlamps.

 

[tegnamo]

I think that electric motorcycles will force eBike makers to up their quality and visual appearance. Basically towing eBikes into the next generation of design. Starting to let go of double-diamond frames and get more cables and things hidden away. Won't make working on eBikes any easier, for sure, but if we assume the influx of new ebike owners don't come with any sort of mechanical training, it's a moot point.

 

[Ken M]

I do believe that ebike companies need to do a better job of designing around the strengths of an ebike and not be so constrained by traditional bike design. For example putting a rider in an uncomfortable low visibility aggressive aerodynamic position makes very little sense when you have a motor much more capable than the rider. While this is mainly true for an ebike intended for urban mobility / transportation it doesn't seem to be considered by most ebike companies that cling to tradition.

I think we'll see more ebikes with staggered wider tires, more upright riding positions, faster speeds (the federal regulation really doesn't limit top assist speed so long at not solely achieved by throttle), etc.

 

[tegnamo]

I think we'll see more ebikes with staggered wider tires, more upright riding positions, faster speeds (the federal regulation really doesn't limit top assist speed so long at not solely achieved by throttle), etc.

Yeah but more states are adopting category 1, 2, 3 and so I think the top speed will ultimately fall into the 28mph range. For niche brands sure they might find a grey area. But the big names won't want to risk it. So what to do then?

 

[Ken M]

Yeah but more states are adopting category 1, 2, 3 and so I think the top speed will ultimately fall into the 28mph range. For niche brands sure they might find a grey area. But the big names won't want to risk it. So what to do then?

While I understand this was an extreme example of human endurance and power a rider was able to maintain an average speed of around 34mph for an hour (existing world record) on a bike without assistance. I question the logic of an assist limit if 20mph or even 28mph when it's possible for traditional bike riders to achieve higher speeds. ebikes really just provide a way to sustain higher average speeds which should not be such a concern. I just question the logic being applied to establish the Class 1,2,3 assist limits.

The federal ebike definition sets an assist limit only when an ebike is under throttle control alone.

 

[MeDotOrg]

Electric battery technology - between power grid storage for renewables, automobiles, backup systems, cell phones, portable computers, as well as electric motorcycles and e-bikes, is not a technology looking for an application. There are a myriad of applications that are screaming out for cheaper, more powerful, safer, and faster charging batteries. I think the big driver will be the auto industry, with the technology percolating down to ebikes in a couple of years.

BTW, what we used to call a motorcycle is technically an enginecycle. My Gazelle is technically a electric motorcycle. A Harley Sportster is technically an internal combustion enginecycle.
;-)

Interesting factoid: The origin of the term "hog" for Harley-Davidson came from the mascot of the Harley Davidson Cycle Team. It was actually a piglet.