If you were to build a long range...

[J.R.]

Thanks @Thomas Jaszewski and @J.R. I wasn't aware you can add a torque sensor to a hub drive. Does it work as well as a mid drive?

The only way I can answer your question is to say it depends on the system. Ebikemotion uses a similar system on some of the best ebikes sold.

Home - MAHLE Smartbike Systems

A new era in the riding experience beginsDiscover the power of the new MAHLE X20 systemMore infoFind the perfect balanceThe lightweight and compact design of X35 makes it the ideal system for urban solutions.More infoROSE Bikes SNEAK+ ePowered by MAHLEROSE Bikes is relying on MAHLE to launch...

www.ebikemotion.com

Conservative systems. I think the good systems are extremely natural. They are different to cadence sensing systems. They don't feel like a throttle. And not as torquey as a mid drive.

Maybe you can test ride one of the brands using Ebikemotion.

 

[tomjasz]

Thanks @Thomas Jaszewski and @J.R. I wasn't aware you can add a torque sensor to a hub drive. Does it work as well as a mid drive?

Only one mid-drive kit, TSDZ2 (I gave mine away out of sheer disappointment) has torque sensing. BBSxx series do not. With a hub drive you can have regenerative braking AND torque sensing.

 

[Ready]

The only way I can answer your question is to say it depends on the system. Ebikemotion uses a similar system on some of the best ebikes sold.

Home - MAHLE Smartbike Systems

A new era in the riding experience beginsDiscover the power of the new MAHLE X20 systemMore infoFind the perfect balanceThe lightweight and compact design of X35 makes it the ideal system for urban solutions.More infoROSE Bikes SNEAK+ ePowered by MAHLEROSE Bikes is relying on MAHLE to launch...

www.ebikemotion.com

Conservative systems. I think the good systems are extremely natural. They are different to cadence sensing systems. They don't feel like a throttle. And not as torquey as a mid drive.

Maybe you can test ride one of the brands using Ebikemotion.

Thanks. I'll do that.

 

[Ready]

Only one mid-drive kit, TSDZ2 (I gave mine away out of sheer disappointment) has torque sensing. BBSxx series do not. With a hub drive you can have regenerative braking AND torque sensing.

Can you add a torque sensor to the BBSXX series motor? I would prefer mid drives over hub because I do enjoy hills .

 

[tomjasz]

Can you add a torque sensor to the BBSXX series motor? I would prefer mid drives over hub because I do enjoy hills .

No. But thousands of happy customers are riding uphill with pedal assist.

 

[Ready]

No. But thousands of happy customers are riding uphill with pedal assist.

Haha! I like that, but I want to feel like I'm working too! I rode a Lectric XP 20 miles and 4600 ft elevation gain last weekend. It sure was NOT fun riding a fat bike uphill like that. I'm pretty strong and the bike has power, but that assist was not natural.

 

[linklemming]

Haha! I like that, but I want to feel like I'm working too! I rode a Lectric XP 20 miles and 4600 ft elevation gain last weekend. It sure was NOT fun riding a fat bike uphill like that. I'm pretty strong and the bike has power, but that assist was not natural.

I agree on the non torque based assist and especially how natural it 'doesnt feel'. Lots of quirks on cadence based PAS IMHO and I just want a bike that feels like a regular bike(I like the sensation of using my legs for power). I have built up a bike with a BBS02 (and also played with programming it) and ridden a BBSHD of a friend. Such a shame, they dont have a torque sensor on those. All my ebikes would be BBS02 or BBSHD if they did.

As such, I really favor the Brose Mid-Drive system. Most natural feeling and the quietest. I forget Im on an ebike. There are reliability problems with them and I can not deny that but I havnt meet anyone in person(over 30) who has had issues and I try to talk to any ebike riders I come across. They all rave about how natural it feels.

Currently I own a Bulls Brose equipped 20mph eMTB, A Brose 28mph bike (iZIp Moda E3) and a Juiced CCX (torque sensor and hub drive).

While the Juiced CCX does have a torque sensor, its back on the rear dropout and the resolution(maybe just programming) just isnt on par with the brose. That being said, at higher speeds it doesnt matter as much and the CCX is fine for what it is (28mph high power commuter).

I have done a bike with a TSDZ2. I ran it at 52volts and ran opensource software on it and a metal gear and 750W. It was noiser that I liked(due to metal gear) and the unit lasted less than 1k miles before bearing slop made me throw it in the trash. That being said, there is a following on endless sphere and many have modded it/upgraded it.

As others have mentioned, grin technologies might be a good way to go.

This might work for you
https://www.ebikes.ca/shop/ready-to...rear-ready-to-roll-kit-custom-wheelbuild.html

Im actually in the process of speccing parts for a surly bridge club with a 52V hub based, torque sensing build from grin technologies. Im waiting on their GMAC motor to come back into stock.

 

[Ready]

I agree on the non torque based assist and especially how natural it 'doesnt feel'. Lots of quirks on cadence based PAS IMHO and I just want a bike that feels like a regular bike(I like the sensation of using my legs for power). I have built up a bike with a BBS02 (and also played with programming it) and ridden a BBSHD of a friend. Such a shame, they dont have a torque sensor on those. All my ebikes would be BBS02 or BBSHD if they did.

As such, I really favor the Brose Mid-Drive system. Most natural feeling and the quietest. I forget Im on an ebike. There are reliability problems with them and I can not deny that but I havnt meet anyone in person(over 30) who has had issues and I try to talk to any ebike riders I come across. They all rave about how natural it feels.

Currently I own a Bulls Brose equipped 20mph eMTB, A Brose 28mph bike (iZIp Moda E3) and a Juiced CCX (torque sensor and hub drive).

While the Juiced CCX does have a torque sensor, its back on the rear dropout and the resolution(maybe just programming) just isnt on par with the brose. That being said, at higher speeds it doesnt matter as much and the CCX is fine for what it is (28mph high power commuter).

I have done a bike with a TSDZ2. I ran it at 52volts and ran opensource software on it and a metal gear and 750W. It was noiser that I liked(due to metal gear) and the unit lasted less than 1k miles before bearing slop made me throw it in the trash. That being said, there is a following on endless sphere and many have modded it/upgraded it.

As others have mentioned, grin technologies might be a good way to go.

This might work for you
https://www.ebikes.ca/shop/ready-to...rear-ready-to-roll-kit-custom-wheelbuild.html

Im actually in the process of speccing parts for a surly bridge club with a 52V hub based, torque sensing build from grin technologies. Im waiting on their GMAC motor to come back into stock.

Lots of great feedback and info there! Thank you very much. It's looking more and more like I need an aftermarket kit that's similar to Specialized 1.1 set up. An "SL" without the "SL" price.

 

[linklemming]

Lots of great feedback and info there! Thank you very much. It's looking more and more like I need an aftermarket kit that's similar to Specialized 1.1 set up. An "SL" without the "SL" price.

FWIW, I think the specialized SL machines are just a work of art. I love the integrated/lack of cables look(and im willing to pay for it). If more local trails opened to MTBing, I would probably get a Levo SL to compliment my Brose equipped bulls eMTB for strictly eMTB.

I have also been looking at the Trek Allant 8s and Cube Reaction Hybrid 45 with 625mah battery for more gravel ride stuff.

Im seriously considering the g310 kit I referenced with a torque sensor. The GMAC motor would be more powerful but in reality, the G310 kit would pretty much be the same performance as my iZip Moda (250watts nominal, 500ish watts peak). For gravel rides which compose alot of what I do, the Moda is the perfect bike. The Bulls is more capable offroad but slower and the CCX is faster but less capable offroad.

A Grin Technologies kit with Cycle Analyst and torque sensor would have lots of options to change.

I have also been considering the wattwagons commuter pro but dont want to spend the $$$ on a rohloff hub. Love the concept but a $6500 pricetag is hard to swallow.

 

[Ready]

FWIW, I think the specialized SL machines are just a work of art. I love the integrated/lack of cables look(and im willing to pay for it). If more local trails opened to MTBing, I would probably get a Levo SL to compliment my Brose equipped bulls eMTB for strictly eMTB.

I have also been looking at the Trek Allant 8s and Cube Reaction Hybrid 45 with 625mah battery for more gravel ride stuff.

Im seriously considering the g310 kit I referenced with a torque sensor. The GMAC motor would be more powerful but in reality, the G310 kit would pretty much be the same performance as my iZip Moda (250watts nominal, 500ish watts peak). For gravel rides which compose alot of what I do, the Moda is the perfect bike. The Bulls is more capable offroad but slower and the CCX is faster but less capable offroad.

A Grin Technologies kit with Cycle Analyst and torque sensor would have lots of options to change.

I have also been considering the wattwagons commuter pro but dont want to spend the $$$ on a rohloff hub. Love the concept but a $6500 pricetag is hard to swallow.

I have never built an ebike before. Given your experience and feedback, I'm going to have to research the G310 kit. If the Creo is in the price of Orbea Gain, the choice would be simple! Thanks.