I need help as to what e-Bike Conversion Kit I should use

[Birdwatcher]

Hi bike friends,

I have a manual tricycle that I want to convert into a e-tricycle. Mine is a Workman model from 2007, yes old, but in good shape.

I measured my (alloy) fork at the widest point from edge to edge and it is almost 5 inch wide.

I got a new 36V 14AH Lithium Battery Rear Rack Li-ion For Electric Bicycle E bike Motor Kit + Charger for just 50 Dollars from someone. Don't think that I can use the rack but I can place the battery in the rear basket, I guess.

And I ordered a 36V 750W 20" Front Tire Electric Bicycle e-Bike Conversion Kit Cycling Hub. I had to return the kit. My tires are indeed 20 inch but the fork of the 36V 750W 20" Front Tire Electric Bicycle e-Bike Conversion Kit Cycling Hub was too wide to fit my tricycle.

Now I read online that washers could have solve the problem, but again what washers? Or is there another solution?

Can you please help and advice me?

 

[Birdwatcher]

Hi Mike, thanks for your reply and advice. I might sound clueless to you, which I actually are with these things.

Here are my two questions:

When I buy a Tongshen mid drive, don't I need a wheel too? I looked it up and saw no wheel. And if I buy a Tongshen mid drive, can I use the 36V 14AH Lithium Battery Li-ion for electric bicycle?

 

[elizilla]

Hello Birdwatcher! I am going through similar thought processes just slightly ahead of you, so I understand your confusion. It is hard to get up to speed, SO much info flying around! I'm going to try to answer you on the level where you (and I) are.

The kit you had, is what they call a "hub motor". The motor is in the wheel. But when Mike talked about a "mid drive" he is talking about keeping your normal non-motorized wheels that the trike came with, and adding a motor that bolts onto the frame somewhere. It then has an extra chain which drives the wheel by way of sprockets, similar to what happens when you drive the pedals with your feet.

The mid-drive is more complex to set up, but it has some advantages as well.

 

[tomjasz]

Most forks are 110mm, never referred to in inches. If you are measuring 5", you are at 127mm. Are you measuring inside?

Now I read online that washers could have solve the problem, but again what washers? Or is there another solution?

Can you please help and advice me?

Easy, just google ebike hub washers, Shazam! https://www.ebay.com/i/352549533005?chn=ps

These days it's quite amazing what google can find!

Next, are you certain it's an aluminum fork? If steel a front hub can be a good choice. There's a lot of Bruhaha over the TSDZ2 but the firmware updates require some skill and not for the timid. I don't really care for the torque sensing. I guess I don't see the advantage on a trike. Mounting a mid-drive may or may not be in a good position on the frame. Since I don't know which version you have...

I do support for a BBSxx reseller so I do have a bias. BUT I also have a TSDZ2 and several hub motors.

Mid drives require no wheel!

I'm not clear on why folks think a mid is harder to set up. But it does require a couple of tools not needed with hub motors.

 

[Dewey]

Worksman use ebikekit for their trike conversions. You can buy just the motor and controller and wiring, says it is a 500w motor that fits 100mm front fork width, you would need to solder matching power connectors to the battery cradle power wires https://www.ebikekit.com/collections/tricycle-kits/products/e-trikekit-no-battery

 

[Birdwatcher]

Worksman use ebikekit for their trike conversions. You can buy just the motor and controller and wiring, says it is a 500w motor that fits 100mm front fork width, you would need to solder matching power connectors to the battery cradle power wires https://www.ebikekit.com/collections/tricycle-kits/products/e-trikekit-no-battery

Too expensive for me, Dewey, besides, they had me mail them many times with a simple question until finally one of them responded. Not buying from Worksman again.

 

[Birdwatcher]

Hello Birdwatcher! I am going through similar thought processes just slightly ahead of you, so I understand your confusion. It is hard to get up to speed, SO much info flying around! I'm going to try to answer you on the level where you (and I) are.

The kit you had, is what they call a "hub motor". The motor is in the wheel. But when Mike talked about a "mid drive" he is talking about keeping your normal non-motorized wheels that the trike came with, and adding a motor that bolts onto the frame somewhere. It then has an extra chain which drives the wheel by way of sprockets, similar to what happens when you drive the pedals with your feet.

The mid-drive is more complex to set up, but it has some advantages as well.

Thanks, elizilla, exactly, so much info flying around and it can indeed cause a confusion. Also thanks for explaining everything. I would prefer a kit that has the wheel. I know already how it looks like and I would be able to install it if I could make my fork fit. Thomas provided more details. As soon as the rain stops, I'll go outside in the shed am measure again and use the magnet once more to see what I got.

You guys are great. I'll be back.

 

[Birdwatcher]

Most forks are 110mm, never referred to in inches. If you are measuring 5", you are at 127mm. Are you measuring inside?


Easy, just google ebike hub washers, Shazam! https://www.ebay.com/i/352549533005?chn=ps

These days it's quite amazing what google can find!

Next, are you certain it's an aluminum fork? If steel a front hub can be a good choice. There's a lot of Bruhaha over the TSDZ2 but the firmware updates require some skill and not for the timid. I don't really care for the torque sensing. I guess I don't see the advantage on a trike. Mounting a mid-drive may or may not be in a good position on the frame. Since I don't know which version you have...

I do support for a BBSxx reseller so I do have a bias. BUT I also have a TSDZ2 and several hub motors.

Mid drives require no wheel!

I'm not clear on why folks think a mid is harder to set up. But it does require a couple of tools not needed with hub motors.

Hi Thomas, thanks for your advice and the link. I guess I blanked out not finding it. Sometimes you don't see the forest in all these trees. Once the rain stops, I do what you say. I measured from outside edge to outside edge of the fork, which probably was wrong. I will now measure from the inside and in mm. I am using also another magnet to check. Maybe that one didn't work as the cat played with it for years.

 

[tomjasz]

Great idea. If it is aluminum and you stay with 500w or under and use two torque arms you should be good to go!

 

[Birdwatcher]

Hi Thomas, the forum was down unfortunately, so here is my late answer.

I have a Trifecta Adult Single Speed Workman tricycle.

What do I have in mind to get two two torque arms? For this kit: AW 16.5" Electric Bicycle Front Wheel Frame Kit for 20" 36V 750W 1.95"-2.5" Tire E-Bike as I have this battery: 36V 14AH Lithium Battery Rear Rack Li-ion For Electric Bicycle E bike Motor Kit + Charger.

Do the torque arms come in various sizes? How can I make sure that I order the right one?

 

[Deleted member 4210]

Hi Mike, thanks for your reply and advice. I might sound clueless to you, which I actually are with these things.

Here are my two questions:

When I buy a Tongshen mid drive, don't I need a wheel too? I looked it up and saw no wheel. And if I buy a Tongshen mid drive, can I use the 36V 14AH Lithium Battery Li-ion for electric bicycle?

Since it is a mid drive , mounted at the bottom bracket, where your pedals and crank arms are, you won't need any new wheels. You keep everything on your trike the same. You won't need to mess with torque arms, or worry about fork strength or material it is made of. Yes you can use your 36 v 14 ah battery. Just order the 36 Volt version motor.

 

[tomjasz]

Trifecta Adult Single Speed Workman tricycle.

Gotcha! A 36V mid drive will take a beating being overloaded on taking off in a single gear. I sell mid drives and I'd suggest a hub drive for a single speed. MUCH more durable. Torque arms are not a big deal. Good to great torque arms are a bit more expensive. If you show a picture of the front fork at the dropouts we can see which style torque arm might be best. I use two of these, whenever possible.

 

[tomjasz]

Trifecta Adult Single Speed Workman tricycle

Is yours a folder?
There are fender eyelets so the Grin V2 will be perfect.

 

[Deleted member 4210]

Mid drive is shown here on a trike. Best way to go for low speeds with plenty of torque. Front hub drive would be terrible, as it will lose traction unless you put all your weight in front, not have enough torque at the low speeds on a trike, and will be more expensive to install. They are bad for single speed trikes as cadence sensing nearly always results in 'ghost pedaling' on single speed trikes where the motor does all the work, and the rider just pedals and pretends to be riding normally but not really exerting any effort. Bad on the motor, and it's gears, bad on range, and without gears you'll never match cadence with the speed you are going unless you want to always stay under 7 mph.

 

[tomjasz]

I still get a kick out of the proponents of no front drive. I've now built every style of kit. The full range of BBSxx motors, both hub versions and in both wheel positions.

I ride a front drive 1000W MXUS as my trailer truck and cargo runner. It seldom if ever spins out. Every mid drive kit researcher is a potential customer, I wouldn't be happy selling a mid for this project.

Unless there are details not discussed a front drive can be a very simple conversion.

Too often we try to convince n00bs to buy what we sell, or we push the product we found best for us. Worse yet we repeat reviews and comments we've gleaned for forum conversations. In some cases take part of the facts and deliver a misguided suggestion.

Front drives are the most maligned builds out there, but they have their place for simplicity, reliability, and DIY friendliness.

Front wheel drive as an alternative power source, for mostly flat city street riding, is a bomb!
BTW I do leave the front tire a bit low on the pressure to give the tire a bit more bite. Winter before last I road the FWD on icy and snowy streets. A very gentle touch on the throttle or low-level PAS made it doable

Mid drive is shown here on a trike.

That mount is lower than I'm comfortable with and on the OP's 20" wheels the mid would be even lower.

 

[Birdwatcher]

Since it is a mid drive , mounted at the bottom bracket, where your pedals and crank arms are, you won't need any new wheels. You keep everything on your trike the same. You won't need to mess with torque arms, or worry about fork strength or material it is made of. Yes you can use your 36 v 14 ah battery. Just order the 36 Volt version motor.

Even if the front drive kit appears to be a bit cheaper than the mid drive, Mike, I probably would still save by not having to buy stuff to make the front kit work. I might go with the mid drive for my trike.

 

[Birdwatcher]

Gotcha! A 36V mid drive will take a beating being overloaded on taking off in a single gear. I sell mid drives and I'd suggest a hub drive for a single speed. MUCH more durable. Torque arms are not a big deal. Good to great torque arms are a bit more expensive. If you show a picture of the front fork at the dropouts we can see which style torque arm might be best. I use two of these, whenever possible.

Hi Thomas, you mean that I might not get up the hills with the mid drive? We have no huge hills here but little ones. I have just single speed. Oh, gee... I was almost sold on the mid drive...

 

[Birdwatcher]

Is yours a folder?
There are fender eyelets so the Grin V2 will be perfect.

Yes, mine can be folded in the middle. But I never had to fold it. I just rode it and put it in the shed.

 

[Birdwatcher]

Is yours a folder?
There are fender eyelets so the Grin V2 will be perfect.

Yes, mine can be folded in the middle. But I never had to fold it. I just rode it and put it in the shed.

Mid drive is shown here on a trike. Best way to go for low speeds with plenty of torque. Front hub drive would be terrible, as it will lose traction unless you put all your weight in front, not have enough torque at the low speeds on a trike, and will be more expensive to install. They are bad for single speed trikes as cadence sensing nearly always results in 'ghost pedaling' on single speed trikes where the motor does all the work, and the rider just pedals and pretends to be riding normally but not really exerting any effort. Bad on the motor, and it's gears, bad on range, and without gears you'll never match cadence with the speed you are going unless you want to always stay under 7 mph.

Thomas swears on the front drive. As I had problems adjusting the front drive before, but I might consider the mid drive, Mike, unless I come to the conclusion that the front drive is really better for my purposes. I have to drive approx. 3 miles and back to the store to get groceries when I don't have the car, which is quite often. On my way are several small 25% slopes (increased hills), otherwise all is flat. I am 5.5 and weigh 120 pounds. The groceries might add 30-40 pounds.

 

[tomjasz]

Yes, mine can be folded in the middle. But I never had to fold it. I just rode it and put it in the shed.

Please, listen to those you can sort advise from, without any sales prejudices. No hills, no need for mid drive s needing more maintenance and attention. I apologize in advance. For my stubborn resistance sugge ting front wheel direct drive as being ridiculously simple. I dO not make recomendations on systems I sell. I make recommendation based on what I know works..
I don’t sell hi drives, but i’m Not shy about telling customers when a drive is a poor choice for their applications.

Oops, iPad editing sucks. My apologies