Hydra v Trek Rail v Levo

[JRA]

FYI the Falcon is 120mm travel. But if that works then go for it. But you can get 150mm bikes for less money.

 

[rtp]

I didn’t know they had gone public yet. I think they are still 2-4 months from having them available. I think this is going to be a great summer. Definitely saving me money

It’s in their video, think claim is ~May?
The plus is the Archon, but otherwise looks like a Dengfu E05 lower travel frame… ?

 

[TomD]

Yeah, E05 frame, I think it's older geometry in addition to shorter travel with E10 being the latest gen.

 

[Acme]

I know you guys like the X2 but if you wait a couple more months I think you’ll be wondering why someone didn’t build it sooner.

 

[TomD]

Well, there are a lot of purchasers wondering why WW didn't build their bikes sooner, but I don't think that's what you're referring to.

 

[Acme]

Sarcasm and bitching aside, I don’t think anyone who isn’t living in a cave or drinking heavily is honestly wondering why Pushkar hasn’t built more bikes. It is obvious every manufacturer is having problems getting parts. A more accurate statement might be Pushkar‘s shortcomings are he is not as good at communicating bad news about delays etc.as he is at starting a business from nothing at the worst possible time and compeating in the global market for parts and building bikes.

 

[rtp]

@Acme Last try (3rd) - what can you tell us about the 'emtb mode' behavior/how did it feel/act?

 

[Acme]

Sorry I didn’t notice your request. The EMTB mode worked great. I stayed in it for most of the ride. not jerky or to much power. The Turbo mode gave more cadence support if it was not too steep

 

[rtp]

Sorry I didn’t notice your request. The EMTB mode worked great. I stayed in it for most of the ride. not jerky or to much power. The Turbo mode gave more cadence support if it was not too steep

Thx!
Did it seem to span the full range of assist from e.g. ECO to just below turbo, or?
Really interested in how it felt/reacted versus i.e. set a ‘normal’ mode like ECO, Tour, Sport, Turbo etc..

 

[Acme]

It didn’t feel like eco at all. I would say it was like tour, sport and turbo combined.

 

[Merle Nelson]

Oh.....it sounds like I might be missing the boat. I have only tried EMTB for a few minutes on my Scott bike. I'll put some more riding time in on that mode and see if it has benefits I just didn't think to notice.

 

[rtp]

Oh.....it sounds like I might be missing the boat. I have only tried EMTB for a few minutes on my Scott bike. I'll put some more riding time in on that mode and see if it has benefits I just didn't think to notice.

Please post once you do. This is something that could be a viable future software/firmware upgrade for Archon/Innotrace/Ludi/<next> at some point. I’ve got access to my wife’s Bosch but it’s gen3 and no mtb so really curious to know what they’re doing to determine power output and how ‘smart’ it actually is…

 

[rtp]

I really like the M600. I’m just not that fan of Luna and the current X2 build. The one that was offered on Black Friday was decent spec but the current X2 is not that great. If I bought one I would literally have to change out all the major components. The aftermarket controller they have is a definite step up from the previous Ludacris however it is still internal and being that these are smaller motors they can generate a lot of heat so I’m waiting for a bike with an external controller.
Luckily I don’t think I’ll have to wait too long. I know 2 manufacturers that are working on higher spec M600 FS with the external controllers. I guessing 4-6 months. Who ever can bring it to market first gets my order. I have seen one manufacturer‘s preliminary drawings that made me very excited, I’m sorry I can’t share them yet. I’m really hoping they will be able to make it happen.
The Z1 doesn’t excite me at all. I have a Frey with the standard Bafang controller and it is a dog compared to the Innotrace. Although it is not the new Uart

BTW here’s a measurement of M600 vs LudiX2 temps. I’m not sure I’d be super concerned on the internal vs external controller story, at least not without some facts/real data backing it…

 

[Merle Nelson]

Please post once you do. This is something that could be a viable future software/firmware upgrade for Archon/Innotrace/Ludi/<next> at some point. I’ve got access to my wife’s Bosch but it’s gen3 and no mtb so really curious to know what they’re doing to determine power output and how ‘smart’ it actually is…

My wife wants us to ride at China Camp this week. Can only take a class 2 bike there so Scott bike goes - Hydra stays home. I'll look forward to testing EMTB mode to see how it feels/performs. Will report back rtp.

I thought it was just a different name for 3rd level of assist out of 4 levels.

 

[rtp]

I thought it was just a different name for 3rd level of assist out of 4 levels.

Maybe it is, but various reading (no experience thus the interest) sure makes it sound like it's more of a 'dynamic' mode that attempts to match power to the need, more than the simpler PAS 'max power of X' type of behavior.
There are lots of 'future possibilities' - some controllers have gyros built into them, and presumably also accelerometers. Combine these with GPS location, altitude 'buffer' of past N seconds and can tell are you going up an incline, down, is it getting steeper or slacker, and 'could' start to provide some interesting motor/assistance responses.

Likewise, I think at least some systems do some kind of 'must make range X' adjustment and scale the assistance to make sure you 'make it back home' - there's some cool stuff that could be done here (as well as screwed up miserably), with some simpler than others, but yeah - definitely interested in impression of 'feel' on how 'emtb mode' actually works, etc..

 

[Merle Nelson]

A quick post before we ride today. On my Scott Genius 900 the EMTB mode gives less power assist than TURBO mode, that's easy to tell. Seperately it feels like it is at a slightly higher torque assist setting than TURBO.

Riding and switc

hing between the two I can tell that I have to push harder going uphill to keep getting added power in EMTB. Then in TURBO I could almost cadence pedal.....but not really.

I couldn't tell/feel any other difference.

 

[rtp]

A quick post before we ride today. On my Scott Genius 900 the EMTB mode gives less power assist than TURBO mode, that's easy to tell. Seperately it feels like it is at a slightly higher torque assist setting than TURBO.

Riding and switching between the two I can tell that I have to push harder going uphill to keep getting added power in EMTB. Then in TURBO I could almost cadence pedal.....but not really.

I couldn't tell/feel any other difference.

Ok thanks - seems like just another 'in between' power level then, like 'sport' was replaced with 'emtb' but no real behavior difference. Thanks!

 

[Merle Nelson]

As far as I can tell. Maybe a more knowledgeable rider could tell other differences.

Your welcome.

Back to my Hydra today!

 

[Holland-Tim-Allant+8S]

Ok thanks - seems like just another 'in between' power level then, like 'sport' was replaced with 'emtb' but no real behavior difference. Thanks!

EMTB is wonderful, imho. i have used it on my Powerfly 9 on my local trails and find it fantastic because it greatly reduces both shifting and power level adjustments. it almost eliminates them entirely. this makes it a more enjoyable ride for me so i can keep up a good pace regardless of the elevation changes and don't have to deal with over assist on the flats of downs. i like it so much i'd like to have it on my Allant+8S. i would gladly trade the Tour mode for it. tim