How much torque is enough?

H

Homet

Active Member
After a lot of consideration I’ve decided that I’ll get a Cube but the lack of test drives available in the UK because of the virus, it means that I’ll effectively be buying blind without even riding or trying the bike. I don’t ride a lot, maybe a couple of times a week and usually no more than 25 miles each time and I live in a slightly hilly area where the worst hills are around 10-12% on average. Most other hills are gentle inclines. I cycle on roads and cycle paths have only been on a rough track once! I weigh around 70kg (175lbs).

My problem is that I have no idea how much torque I need to tackle these type of hills. I have a tendency to overbuy and I really can’t afford to do that this time. I‘d obviously like the Gen4 Bosch but I fear that it would be wasted on me and cost far more than I need to spend!

Can anyone advise please - I’ve not decided on the exact model but starting with the motor seems a sensible way to approach the problem!
 
Please name the general model of the Cube, @Homet. Kathmandu? Touring Hybrid? Else? Motor torque is only one factor when considering the hills. Gearing is another important factor.
 
Looking at a Nuride Hybrid Pro 500 or Reaction Hybrid pro 500 as the most expensive choices. There are others that are similar with the older gen 3 motors that are a few hundred less..

Hello again Stefan!
 
Cube Reaction Pro 500 should take you up the steepest hills, with the 12% ones considered easy here. It is because of the 38T chainring combined with 50T largest cog. The promised 75 Nm will be amplified to 98 Nm in the granny gear. The Nuride has 38-46T gearing combined with 85 Nm motor, effectively producing 102 Nm at the rear-wheel. As I said, the 12% climb should be easy for you.

My legs are weak. With 48-46T gearing and 72 Nm motor (effectively 69 Nm), I could with some effort climb a 12.5% grade. My e-MTB has a 85 Nm motor and 36-51 gearing, making whooping 120 Nm torque at the rear-wheel: no realistic hill could stop me here.

I think you should not be afraid of your steepest hills if your Cube comes with at least 75 Nm motor and 38-50 gearing (chainring-largest cassette cog). With stronger motor, the 46T largest cog will absolutely do.
 
For the sake of a few hundred, it's probably wiser to buy the Gen 4 models if only for the fact its the latest kit and better option for continued support 3-5 years down the line. 500Wh battery seems fine for your use, no real need to buy the 625Wh options at higher prices. All well and good, but as you say are you paying more for an over spec bike ?

There's also the Nature Hybrid, which may be worth considering due to your cycle path/roads use (mudguards, lights etc) but still able to cope with an occassional muddy/bumpy canal tow path or unpaved forest cycleway/path - it comes in normal or trapeze frame, but no low/step version - given your previous posts on the Forme etc, maybe this is enough of the MTB looks with the practicality for your use ? Yes these are Gen 3 motors, less torque, but as a frequent cyclist these should have more than enough umph in the higher assist modes for a light rider..

www.cube.eu

CUBE PRODUKT ARCHIV | 2021

CUBE PRODUKT ARCHIV
www.cube.eu

www.cube.eu

CUBE PRODUKT ARCHIV | 2021

CUBE PRODUKT ARCHIV
www.cube.eu

these are EXC spec so higher quality components, but there's also the 'One' version which still uses hydraulic brakes, but lesser quality shifters/gearset

www.cube.eu

CUBE PRODUKT ARCHIV | 2021

CUBE PRODUKT ARCHIV
www.cube.eu

but you do save some pennies.
 
percymon said:
For the sake of a few hundred, it's probably wiser to buy the Gen 4 models if only for the fact its the latest kit and better option for continued support 3-5 years down the line.
Click to expand...
I agree with Percymon regarding the Gen 4 motor.
I looked to the Nature Hybrid One Allroad. No-no. The 38-36T gearing and 50 Nm motor will require a lot of effort when climbing.

Reaction Hybrid Performance 500? 65 Nm is not hopeless but the gearing of that e-bike is inadequate.
 
The thing is easy for Gen 4* motors. I can see the new Cube e-bikes come with 38T chainring that is close to the MTB range. Now, 42 or 46, or 50T largest cassette cogs allow multiplying the torque (divide the largest cog size by the chainring size: The ratio should be greater than 1). Now, if you multiply the rated maximum motor torque with the maximum gearing ratio and you get close to 100 Nm, you should not be afraid of any steep hills in your area.

Of course the situations in which you would need to downshift to the "granny gear" and apply the Turbo mode will only be pertaining to the steepest hills. On normal rides, you'd probably ride in the Eco mode at any convenient gearing.

The only situation you wouldn't like could be one when you had to stand on the pedals or walk your e-bike up the hill. That's why I discourage you to buy the e-bike with "economic" motor or gearing good for flatland only.
-------------
*) Older Gen Bosch motors come with small chainring, such as 16T. Multiply that with 2.5 to get the equivalent (40 T in this case).
 
Thanks again Stefan!
Those of you that already have the bikes you want are so lucky. It’s nearly impossible to buy anything now - one dealer told me yesterday that everything was back ordered and delivery would be in May / June next year.
I’ll keep looking.
 
Gen 3 engine is more than enough for what you describe. Even the plain Active Line Plus is enough if the gearing is correct.
Check the thread named Kathmandu where on the last posts I have provided some insight about my new Touring Plus EXC 625 2021 where the Performance Line Cruise Gen3 performs excellent for me.
I have now done ~400km in a few weeks with all rides including the mountains where I live and I can answer any questions you might have.
 
Homet said:
After a lot of consideration I’ve decided that I’ll get a Cube but the lack of test drives available in the UK because of the virus, it means that I’ll effectively be buying blind without even riding or trying the bike. I don’t ride a lot, maybe a couple of times a week and usually no more than 25 miles each time and I live in a slightly hilly area where the worst hills are around 10-12% on average. Most other hills are gentle inclines. I cycle on roads and cycle paths have only been on a rough track once! I weigh around 70kg (175lbs).

My problem is that I have no idea how much torque I need to tackle these type of hills. I have a tendency to overbuy and I really can’t afford to do that this time. I‘d obviously like the Gen4 Bosch but I fear that it would be wasted on me and cost far more than I need to spend!

Can anyone advise please - I’ve not decided on the exact model but starting with the motor seems a sensible way to approach the problem!
Click to expand...
I would recommend digging deep one more time and splurging on the gen4 motor since it does have more torque, weighs less, presumably more reliable and zero drag/resistance when the motor stops providing assistance at the top assisted speed.

That being said you would be fine with any Bosch model gen3 motor going up hills with out a problem. The gen4 would put a wider smile on your face when going up hills but you would still be smiling with the Gen3.
 
Gen3 motors had zero drag first, when the latest Active Line Plus motor appeared in 2019. The Gen3 Performance Line Cuise is a lot quieter that the CX, designed with the things you need for touring and commuting. The range I get out of it is amazing. After 430km on the bike (625 battery), I can safely say that the range anxiety I expected is not relevant at all. I do 50+km with a lot of ascending on ECO mode before even losing the first of the 5 battery bars.
I'm on my 3rd charge since I got the bike and I'm charging at 2 or 3 bars up to maximum as I do some quite long rides. I use the Tour or Sport mode just for a few seconds some times when accelerating from a stop on dangerous crossroads etc. Turbo mode is a 'joke' flying you uphill like crazy! So i have probably used it for less that 1 minute till now. ECO and off (either manually or by exceeding 25.5 km/h) are perfect for me and the bike depite its weight goes easily above 30 on flat roads and ~70 on downhill roads :D

PS. I weigh 82kg dry, and I'm 197cm tall. The bike is a huge XL size.
 
The performance line and CX motors immediately prior to the new gen 4 were gen 2 motors. Gen 3 only applies to active line motors which were lower torque. The gen 2 motors used the 2.5:1 reduction with much smaller chain rings and also produced greater resistance once the top speed was met and power assist cut out. They were like pedaling into a strong wind when they dropped out. Gen 2 motors were good reliable motors that would definitely work for you but the gen 4 are better in several respects as described by @Akrotiri.
 
50623ACC-32C4-41D9-B01B-254759BC5C3C.jpeg

Cube ebikes seem to be very popular in Greece lately. Saw this one today when I was purchasing some muc-off products and it’s the 8th cube ebike my lbs sold this month. Greece has been on lockdown since 7th November. Thankfully bike shops are classified as essential and are allowed to remain open like pharmacies, supermarkets and bakeries. Impressive sales of one brand in an island of only 75k residents. The lbs owner told me that compared to last year he sold zero cube ebikes in the month of November and only five for the entire year of 2019.
 
Last edited:
Alaskan said:
The performance line and CX motors immediately prior to the new gen 4 were gen 2 motors. Gen 3 only applies to active line motors which were lower torque. The gen 2 motors used the 2.5:1 reduction with much smaller chain rings and also produced greater resistance once the top speed was met and power assist cut out. They were like pedaling into a strong wind when they dropped out. Gen 2 motors were good reliable motors that would definitely work for you but the gen 4 are better in several respects as described by @Akrotiri.
Click to expand...
Check Bosch's site and see the Gen 3 motors. The first one was the Active Line Plus and the next year (2020) the new Performance Line. I know, as I'm riding this every day :)
 
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