rich c
Well-Known Member
He must only have 4 hours off on Tuesday with that logic.
Help me select a bike please
- Thread starter kb2rocket
- Start date
QuietKat does still make some hub drive commuter/city bikes and they originally came out with bikes they billed as capable but quickly switched to a mid drive system because, as you state, the hub motors would not handle the job.
The original poster has given up a fair amount of information. He wants a bike that will handle exploring around the deserts, a pack mule and possibly a hunt with the bike. With that description I would think fat bike for sand and rocks and stout frame and lots of power for a pack mule and a bike billed as a hunting bike.
QuietKat makes a bike called the JEEP, carries the name JEEP, is endorsed by Jeep and is specifically purpose built for his exact stated criterion. The bike can even be ordered outfitted for hunting and pack mulling. The bike is available and on sale. Seldom does it get easier than this. If I had a jeep and his criterion, I would look no further.
John from Connecticut
Well-Known Member
Howdy, I checked out the QuietKat Jeep on QuietKats web site. It looks like a ton of fun...
The 'Jeep' seems like a very well thought out, well designed 'e-motorcycle.' In my view this is not an e-bike.
Not specifically picking on this product, there are many, but I really wish these 'vehicles' would not
hide behind the e-bike umbrella. They are not, in my view. They are e-motorcycles. Call them as such.
I don't limit my criticism to monsters like the QuietKat. The same goes for the smaller 'e-bikes' where
the pedals only serve as foot rests and to skirt the motor scooter / cycle rules-laws.
Recently while riding my non-throttle e-'bike' ( thus having to pedal ) behind a responsible riding fella
on a throttle based e-bike for 3-4 + miles. I never stopped pedaling...he never started. 100% throttle.
I'm not knocking throttles, call the 'bikes' what I believe they are, e-scooters with pedals.
Lastly, If a QueitKat type vehicle is used on single tracks, logging roads, gravel whatever, fine. I'm concerned
that, by it's design, motor, power etc it will be ridden is critical, nature sensitive, areas that may very well be harmed
because 'we' shouldn't be there. QuietKat and I'm certain many others promote..."Go anywhere No limits, No boundaries"
I'm concerned about the non-responsible rider /hunter /whatever.
Should there be a legal problem with a QuietKat type vehicle and the Media becomes involved, it will be....
" In other news, An e-biker today destroyer the very remote nesting area for the ______ . "
Your argument is a total non-starter with me. I use to think you guys had an argument. You don't. QuietKat ticks none of the boxes that I would want in a motorcycle, NONE.
As for tearing up sensitive areas, try foot and horse traffic. Total non-starter there.
When I see someone not pedaling, I don't judge them. Better than sitting in a rocking chair dying.
Stefan Mikes
Well-Known Member
- Region
- Europe
- City
- Mazovia, Poland
Sitting on the sofa of an e-moped and not pedalling is as good as sitting in a rocking chair dying.
California
Member
- Region
- USA
My use case when I am traveling is similar but not exact to the original inquiry. I have a 2wd van (not a jeep) and want to use the bike to extend my reach onto rough roads and enjoy places where I can't go with the van or can't reach in enough time on foot. But I won't be bouncing on 4wd roads in the van with the Tero on the back.
For the use scenario of being on remote 4wd roads, I think the Tero X 6.0 is a great choice if you want to spend that kind of money.
John from Connecticut
Well-Known Member
Perhaps I could have done a better job explaining. Simply stated...A QuietKat Jeep type vehicle is in my view an e-Motorcycle,
and it should called what I believe it and others like it are. The QK Jeep has a massive 1000W Motor with 160 NM of torque,
weighs 75 pounds plus all of the other robust components.
As for the fella I spoke of not pedaling, I never made any judgmental statements regarding his riding. ..Again my point was about labeling a 'bike'
that is almost never pedaled an e-Scooter, which I happen to like.
Lastly and I quote from your post... "When I see someone not pedaling, I don't judge them. Better than sitting in a rocking chair dying. "
Seems a bit harsh ......"Better than sitting in a rocking chair dying. " There may former serious bike riders reading these posts, that for
unknown reasons can no longer ride and are limited to a rocking chair. That's all they have.
Like Reply
ElevenAD
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Ringoes New Jersey
lmao, dude really? And they wonder why OP is in no rush to hear their advice!
ElevenAD
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Ringoes New Jersey
Quiet Kat make a bunch of bikes, some are hub drives like The Rangers but they also have some Ultra and BBSHD powered middrives.
Bikes are over priced imo.
ElevenAD
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Ringoes New Jersey
I try not to but i end up judging them every time, dang it!
indianajo
Well-Known Member
My cargo bike left weighed 72 lb before I added the panniers, the rack, the 9 lb hub motor & the 8 lb battery. With tools, tire & tubes, water, rain gear, it is 94 lb out the garage door.
With this bike I ride 2/3 of the 70 miles a week of my summer routine unpowered except by legs. I tried living with a 350 w motor, but when the state required me starting in June to ride in front of trucks in a 108" construction zone lane at their preferred 70 mph, I had to stay home. One of those trucks passed me in a 108" wide construction zone 2017, forcing me to jump through the cones over a 12" ledge into a hole. June 2022 I burnt up one of those 350 w motors on the back road to my summer property with 17 more hills and 7 more miles than the state highway. I'm installing a 1000 w motor again, that proved competent at that hilly route with my 60 lb groceries, weed killer, or mower parts. Rain burnt the controller connector 2021, not hills burn the winding. I had to repair the 2017 motor since the supply of 1000 w geared hub motors on e-bay is now zero.
This "e motorcycle" allows me to live without a car. I average 6.4 wh per mile on the roads at average 9 mph. Tell me again how dangerous I am to the environment? How this vehicle has been outlawed? The 3 class laws already outlaw 1000 w motors for bicycles. US citizens are supposed to drive 2 ton SUV's to the grocery, pharmacy, to a restaurant 12 times a week, to the coffee shop every morning, to the kid's school so they don't have to walk to the bus stop or wait in the weather, to the psychiatrist to complain about anxiety over global warming (PBS News Hour 7/30/23). USA is full of crazy people burning up the planet .
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You and I have a very different definition of a motorcycle. 1000W is massive? It's just over 1 hp? That does not even meet the definition of idle on an motorcycle for me Your argument is pathetic Even a moped has more. I can put more weight on the seat of a motorcycle than I can hang on a 1000W bicycle. In terms of motor vehicle, 1000W is not even on the map let alone massive. I would let you get away with that argument if I wasn't but heads up against the wall trying to figure out how to make a 1000W e bike with a massive battery try carry more that a GD tooth brush! I hear arguments like this and it just makes me want to throw up my hands and go out and get a gasoline motorcycle. What keeps me in the game is exercise. Yeah! I ain't no motorcycle
My 1000W 80lb e fat bike does just fine pedaling down a MUP at 13-15 mph just like my 300hp SUV does just fine on the freeway at 65 mph. I stop for little old ladies because I have a throttle to get started again and get back up to pedaling speed. It ain't the puny 1000W electric motor.
ElevenAD
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Ringoes New Jersey
Honestly anything they have to offer is more than likely way over priced imho.
i have a hour to spare so im going to compare their prices and bikes to some similarly equipped bikes.
Edit: Im back and to my surprise Quite Kat prices are actually not bad compared to what they were a few years back, the JEEP bike at $3999 is a nice bike.
The price is not bad alone and they are throwing in a free spare battery, not bad at all. The one thing they don't clarify is whether the extra battery is a Range extender or a true spare?
Most bikes using this style of frame have dual battery capability so you can use both batteries together but they don't make this clear on the Quite Kat site.
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Mike TowpathTraveler
Well-Known Member
To the Original Poster: It sounds to me that a fat tired ebike, mid drive is what you need in desert riding. The fat tires allow you to go through deep sand where encountered, by lowering your tire pressure below 10psi. Do know that a fat tire will go through sandy conditions where a 2 inch wide mountain bike tire will have alot of difficulty.
To everyone posting here: I know poster @K PierreR through another online fat bike forum. He knows what he talks about and backs it up by doing some very long distance, multi-day bike rides with his best furry 4 legged friend and his camping gear. His word is gospel in my book.
Back to @kb2rocket: The Jeep Quiet Kat right now might be the best mass produced built fat tired mid drive ebike going, now that Haibike and it's great Full FatSix has left the US market. Knowing what I know about my Full FatSix, I would have absolutely no issue buying a used Full FatSix off Ebay or Craigslist or Facebook MarketPlace. The Yamaha PW, PWX and PWX2 mid drive are some of the most reliable, bulletproof mid drive motor and battery systems on the market today.
To @Stefan Mikes: Here is my Haibie Full FatSix, with it's rear rack mounted to a Robert Axle thru axle and holding 2 Ortlieb E-Mate panniers. Those two bags are holding one Yamaha 500wh battery. 1500wh total. This was a 70 plus mile ride, heading east into the NJ Pine Barrens forest. 1500wh total. Dual suspension, fat tired ebike. Yes it can and has been done.
The thing that alot of people still miss about a high end fat tired ebike is this: I can go anywhere I want to go, anytime. Pavement. Single Track mountain trail. Sugar sand fire roads. Snow. Mud. Anytime. Anywhere. Anyplace. That is the beauty and utility of the fat tired ebike.
To everyone posting here: I know poster @K PierreR through another online fat bike forum. He knows what he talks about and backs it up by doing some very long distance, multi-day bike rides with his best furry 4 legged friend and his camping gear. His word is gospel in my book.
Back to @kb2rocket: The Jeep Quiet Kat right now might be the best mass produced built fat tired mid drive ebike going, now that Haibike and it's great Full FatSix has left the US market. Knowing what I know about my Full FatSix, I would have absolutely no issue buying a used Full FatSix off Ebay or Craigslist or Facebook MarketPlace. The Yamaha PW, PWX and PWX2 mid drive are some of the most reliable, bulletproof mid drive motor and battery systems on the market today.
To @Stefan Mikes: Here is my Haibie Full FatSix, with it's rear rack mounted to a Robert Axle thru axle and holding 2 Ortlieb E-Mate panniers. Those two bags are holding one Yamaha 500wh battery. 1500wh total. This was a 70 plus mile ride, heading east into the NJ Pine Barrens forest. 1500wh total. Dual suspension, fat tired ebike. Yes it can and has been done.
The thing that alot of people still miss about a high end fat tired ebike is this: I can go anywhere I want to go, anytime. Pavement. Single Track mountain trail. Sugar sand fire roads. Snow. Mud. Anytime. Anywhere. Anyplace. That is the beauty and utility of the fat tired ebike.
Yeah Mike, I would have said so a week ago until I hopped on a Bakcou Mule and rode it. Then to realize that I can order the higher end Mule Jager with 2 batteries totaling 2,400 watt hours. oooh the cockpit felt better than mine and the integration, exquisite. It's definitely a bike I would ride on the Great Divide Mountain Bike Route or the new Eastern Divides Trail route.
And, John from Connecticut, you have done a marvelous job of explaining your position but at my age, it falls on totally def ears. I am not interested in a super low powered e bike for the same reason I am not interested in a super low powered car. Super low power to me means sooner or later I am not going to clear something and me, the bike and the dog will tumble down the slope. Longevity or electrical components also depends on not stressing components. With a powerful e bike, I am not stressing the electrics at all. With a non throttle low powered e bike, I will be at a much higher percentage of the total power and stressing light weight electrical components to a much higher degree. I am well aware of the fact that you do not think any bike with an electric assist is a bicycle and you are entitled to believe that but in everyday life you have lost that battle. Even the government says so and they are always right. Just ask them.
95% of the time I am well below 250 watts motor output. Above 750 watts is well below 1% I have not found high power to be useful except for dog chases, thunderstorms and bears. Even pulling 1,600 watts of battery power the motor output seldom exceeds 750 watts. Myself and the poodle really don't like speeds above 18 mph.
The Mule is above the OP's budget. My costs per mile to E bike exceed my costs per mile to drive a vehicle.
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bombadero
Active Member
Sigh, here we go again. The Quietkat Jeep is no longer produced (I bought one of the last ones for %50 off), but this thread raises a number of issues that plague countless other threads regarding the fact that people fundamentally don't understand the differences between various modes of two-wheeled transportation.
First, a 1,000W e-bike is not a moped or a motorcycle. If you think a street legal e-bike is a motorcycle, then you either a) don't know anything about e-bikes; b) don't know anything about motorcycles; or c) both. I own a Quietkat Jeep and I get this all the time from know-nothings on the street, and also for another e-bike I own, a DIY, dual-motor, dual battery bike truck built on an old stump-jumper frame with a gonzo 'mullet' set-up: the front wheel is a 26x4" fat tire and the rear is a 26x2.15". It's not a true mullet, as both wheels are 26", but it achieves the same effect via the tire sizes. Anyway, people see the fat tires and they blurt out, "That there's a motorcicle, derpurp!" Sorry to be harsh, but it's gotten really old: edumacate yerselves, folks. Fat tires are not motorcycle tires, they are meant for slow speeds on sand, mud, snow or grass. Motorcycle tires have a much smaller diameter, and are meant for motorcycle speeds. Fat bikes, btw, have been around forever (probably 50+ years, idk the exact origin). The fact you are not aware of what they are does not make fat-bike + e-bike a motorcycle.
Here are some more fun facts:
1. 250W = 1/3 HP. Hence the 750W maximum, which is roughly equal to 1 HP. The legislation is literally that lazy; it was too hard to wrap their heads around how electric motors work, so they just arbitrarily settled on 1 HP. There is nothing deeper to it than that. So 1,000W = 1.33 HP. My DIY bike has 1,100W total from both motors, equalling a whopping 1.41 HP. That would be a damn weak motorcycle.
2. Electric mopeds and motorcycles are not 'e-bikes'. People derpily call them that following the conventions in the ICE space where 'bike' can mean 'bicycle' or 'motorbike'. In the e-space, the word e-bike specifically and exclusively refers to street legal bicycles with electric assistance at or below 750W, period. This distinction is not just me being a vocab-Nazi, it's very important, because that's how the law defines an e-bike. So when there is a thread discussing, say e-bike laws, and some Karen derp starts going off on a tangent about Stealth B-52's ripping around, and how they need to be banned, it is completely irrelevant to the topic at hand, because a Sur-ron, or Stealth or what-have-you are not e-bikes, they are non-road-legal e-mopeds with way more than the 1kW of power the QKJ has, but still not powerful enough to be motorcycles.
3. One would think, based on the above that my DIY bike and the Quietkat Jeep are therefore even weaker non-road-legal e-mopeds. They are not, for two reasons, one legal, one technical. The legal reason is that both of these bikes have profiles that allow them to be configured as street-legal e-bikes restricted to 750W, which is usually how I ride the Quietkat. There is nothing in any e-bike law that dictates whether the 750W limitation must be applied in hardware or software, or how it is applied, i.e. via a profile or just hard-coded as in most e-bikes. In fact, this limitation is essentially always enforced in software, because that's (kind of) the only way to do it. The only difference is whether it's implemented in firmware or higher level software interfacing with the firmware. Doing so with hardware is almost impossible, because the power must be allowed to vary, and the only way to do that is by varying the amperage; that's how electric motors work. You could do that with hardware alone probably, via cable gauges and some clever electronics, but it's just easier to do it in software so you can mass produce the same kind of motor. Anyway, so the QKJ is only illegal if you run it in unlimited mode. I also have an unlimited mode on my DIY, and tbh honest I usually run that bike in unlimited (more on this later), because it is much peppier in that mode than the QKJ. The technical reason they are still not e-mopeds is that they still don't have enough power (more on that in the next point).
4. The QKJ is a 70 lb., fat-tire e-mtb. The throttle on these bikes is not very useful. I say that after 7 years of riding various e-bikes. The reason it is not useful as a main means of acceleration, except for certain ancillary functions, is again because they are not powerful enough. I call using just the throttle on bikes like this 'golf cart mode', because that's what they feel like. They are torque-y off the line, but that instantly peters out once you reach the top speed the bike can hit without human input, which, even on a class-3-capable bike, is still only about 20 MPH. It's hella weak without the dual input of motor + legs. This is just standard e-bike functionality. So those of you saying someone riding this is weak or lazy--you're about a decade behind the facts, try to catch up with the present day. There are literally dozens of studies showing that e-bikers get more exercise overall, even though they get a little less cardio, and about half the muscle resistance, because they tend to ride longer and more often. Again, an e-bike is not a motorcycle. They are not powerful enough to make you fat and lazy riding them, even with full power. If you want that, buy an actual motorcycle. This is why I only use the throttle for things like: motor-lag checks; hill starts; starts when carrying a lot of weight; light starts; walk assist.
I've tried running the QKJ in unlimited, and it's honestly not really worth it, because you only get another 250W, so top speed is not that high, and yet despite that the motor gets much hotter and your range suffers. So most of the time I ride it in class 1/3. I'll ride in class 1 to preserve range, riding with my dog, family rides, et cetera. Class 3 is my GSD mode for errands. Class 2 I use pretty rarely; it's useful for starts with the dog trailer on family rides. The only time I used unlimited is on return trips from errands when I have a lot of weight, for easier starts. By comparison, my DIY bike truck, because it has dual hub motors, spreads the torque over both wheels. The throttle still is not that useful on that bike for the same reasons, but unlike the QKJ, it feels much more powerful in unlimited mode than in 'speed' mode (class 3) while riding it like a normal e-bike, i.e. pedalling (although even then, top speed is only about 32 MPH). My DIY bike also has regenerative braking, so I don't get a range penalty, and the hub motors seem to stay cooler than the Bafang, probably both because of the statorade I inject them with and the fact that they are in the center of a spinning wheel providing an air-cooling effect.
I've tried upgrading the QKJ to a high range transmission, and I acutally need to start another post about that here or somewhere else, because I'm having a lot of difficulties with that: I've tried a couple of different drive-trains and they both have resulted in weird chain-suck issues in high gears that seem to be related to the torque of the Bafang motor. I have also tried riding it in the sort of extreme conditions in which I've ridden lighter, more agile bikes, and the results have been... physically painful. It is my opinion that this bike is too high-centered and too torque-y for steep, off-road hill climbing. It turns out there is sort of sweet spot for that. I tried this recently and it resulted in my front wheel shooting up off the ground, causing me to fall backwards about 6 feet and breaking a rib. There were other factors involved in my act of derpery, but I still maintain that the QKJ is ill-suited to steep technical climbs. It is crazy torque-y, but still an e-bike, only weighing 70 lbs., and not having enough power to back the torque up. A dirt bike, by comparison, actually has less torque, but much more power, weighs a lot more, and has skinnier tires, so it will shoot up hills with a planted front wheel where this e-bike will just flop over backwards. And this really comes back to what this bike is for... it is perfectly suited to off-road terrain on sand, mud, snow and grass on flat or moderately hilly terrain. That said, it is really well planted for descents. It is however, again very high-centered because of the size of the tires which makes steep technical descents also kind of scary. It is also surprisingly good in a city. It is equipped stock with CST Roly Poly's, which have surprisingly decent rolling resistance and cornering grip on asphalt, but you will of course need to purchase a rack or a trailer for this bike. Trailers work better on this bike imo. Those tires also go up to 30 PSI, which is very high for fat tires, but it means that it works great going back and forth between road/off-road if you air your tires up and down properly for conditions.
In summary, buy a bike similar to the QKJ, i.e. a fat-tire, full-suspension e-bike, if:
- You need an all-rounder e-bike that can handle off-road terrain of various types and road riding
- You understand the difference between a fat-tire e-mtb and a regular e-mtb
- You understand the difference between an e-mtb and a motorcycle
- You have good or excellent bike handling skills
- You don't plan to use it for steep, technical hill climbs (it does fine on steep climbs on the road or fire roads)
- You like e-bikes because you accept that you will still need to put in some exercise
- Use cases: hunting, surfing, fishing, adventure biking, all-rounder with some adjustments for road use (rack, trailer)
Don't buy a fat-tire, full-suspension e-bike, if:
- You don't know what a fat-tire bike is
- You don't understand the difference between and e-bike and a motorcycle--you probably shouldn't be riding either until you educate yourself
- You want a regular e-mtb; just buy one of those
- You want an electric moped or motorcycle and don't want to get any exercise; just buy one of those
- Use cases: DH, enduro, single-track, moto/dirt-biking, throttle only city moped/motorcycle
First, a 1,000W e-bike is not a moped or a motorcycle. If you think a street legal e-bike is a motorcycle, then you either a) don't know anything about e-bikes; b) don't know anything about motorcycles; or c) both. I own a Quietkat Jeep and I get this all the time from know-nothings on the street, and also for another e-bike I own, a DIY, dual-motor, dual battery bike truck built on an old stump-jumper frame with a gonzo 'mullet' set-up: the front wheel is a 26x4" fat tire and the rear is a 26x2.15". It's not a true mullet, as both wheels are 26", but it achieves the same effect via the tire sizes. Anyway, people see the fat tires and they blurt out, "That there's a motorcicle, derpurp!" Sorry to be harsh, but it's gotten really old: edumacate yerselves, folks. Fat tires are not motorcycle tires, they are meant for slow speeds on sand, mud, snow or grass. Motorcycle tires have a much smaller diameter, and are meant for motorcycle speeds. Fat bikes, btw, have been around forever (probably 50+ years, idk the exact origin). The fact you are not aware of what they are does not make fat-bike + e-bike a motorcycle.
Here are some more fun facts:
1. 250W = 1/3 HP. Hence the 750W maximum, which is roughly equal to 1 HP. The legislation is literally that lazy; it was too hard to wrap their heads around how electric motors work, so they just arbitrarily settled on 1 HP. There is nothing deeper to it than that. So 1,000W = 1.33 HP. My DIY bike has 1,100W total from both motors, equalling a whopping 1.41 HP. That would be a damn weak motorcycle.
2. Electric mopeds and motorcycles are not 'e-bikes'. People derpily call them that following the conventions in the ICE space where 'bike' can mean 'bicycle' or 'motorbike'. In the e-space, the word e-bike specifically and exclusively refers to street legal bicycles with electric assistance at or below 750W, period. This distinction is not just me being a vocab-Nazi, it's very important, because that's how the law defines an e-bike. So when there is a thread discussing, say e-bike laws, and some Karen derp starts going off on a tangent about Stealth B-52's ripping around, and how they need to be banned, it is completely irrelevant to the topic at hand, because a Sur-ron, or Stealth or what-have-you are not e-bikes, they are non-road-legal e-mopeds with way more than the 1kW of power the QKJ has, but still not powerful enough to be motorcycles.
3. One would think, based on the above that my DIY bike and the Quietkat Jeep are therefore even weaker non-road-legal e-mopeds. They are not, for two reasons, one legal, one technical. The legal reason is that both of these bikes have profiles that allow them to be configured as street-legal e-bikes restricted to 750W, which is usually how I ride the Quietkat. There is nothing in any e-bike law that dictates whether the 750W limitation must be applied in hardware or software, or how it is applied, i.e. via a profile or just hard-coded as in most e-bikes. In fact, this limitation is essentially always enforced in software, because that's (kind of) the only way to do it. The only difference is whether it's implemented in firmware or higher level software interfacing with the firmware. Doing so with hardware is almost impossible, because the power must be allowed to vary, and the only way to do that is by varying the amperage; that's how electric motors work. You could do that with hardware alone probably, via cable gauges and some clever electronics, but it's just easier to do it in software so you can mass produce the same kind of motor. Anyway, so the QKJ is only illegal if you run it in unlimited mode. I also have an unlimited mode on my DIY, and tbh honest I usually run that bike in unlimited (more on this later), because it is much peppier in that mode than the QKJ. The technical reason they are still not e-mopeds is that they still don't have enough power (more on that in the next point).
4. The QKJ is a 70 lb., fat-tire e-mtb. The throttle on these bikes is not very useful. I say that after 7 years of riding various e-bikes. The reason it is not useful as a main means of acceleration, except for certain ancillary functions, is again because they are not powerful enough. I call using just the throttle on bikes like this 'golf cart mode', because that's what they feel like. They are torque-y off the line, but that instantly peters out once you reach the top speed the bike can hit without human input, which, even on a class-3-capable bike, is still only about 20 MPH. It's hella weak without the dual input of motor + legs. This is just standard e-bike functionality. So those of you saying someone riding this is weak or lazy--you're about a decade behind the facts, try to catch up with the present day. There are literally dozens of studies showing that e-bikers get more exercise overall, even though they get a little less cardio, and about half the muscle resistance, because they tend to ride longer and more often. Again, an e-bike is not a motorcycle. They are not powerful enough to make you fat and lazy riding them, even with full power. If you want that, buy an actual motorcycle. This is why I only use the throttle for things like: motor-lag checks; hill starts; starts when carrying a lot of weight; light starts; walk assist.
I've tried running the QKJ in unlimited, and it's honestly not really worth it, because you only get another 250W, so top speed is not that high, and yet despite that the motor gets much hotter and your range suffers. So most of the time I ride it in class 1/3. I'll ride in class 1 to preserve range, riding with my dog, family rides, et cetera. Class 3 is my GSD mode for errands. Class 2 I use pretty rarely; it's useful for starts with the dog trailer on family rides. The only time I used unlimited is on return trips from errands when I have a lot of weight, for easier starts. By comparison, my DIY bike truck, because it has dual hub motors, spreads the torque over both wheels. The throttle still is not that useful on that bike for the same reasons, but unlike the QKJ, it feels much more powerful in unlimited mode than in 'speed' mode (class 3) while riding it like a normal e-bike, i.e. pedalling (although even then, top speed is only about 32 MPH). My DIY bike also has regenerative braking, so I don't get a range penalty, and the hub motors seem to stay cooler than the Bafang, probably both because of the statorade I inject them with and the fact that they are in the center of a spinning wheel providing an air-cooling effect.
I've tried upgrading the QKJ to a high range transmission, and I acutally need to start another post about that here or somewhere else, because I'm having a lot of difficulties with that: I've tried a couple of different drive-trains and they both have resulted in weird chain-suck issues in high gears that seem to be related to the torque of the Bafang motor. I have also tried riding it in the sort of extreme conditions in which I've ridden lighter, more agile bikes, and the results have been... physically painful. It is my opinion that this bike is too high-centered and too torque-y for steep, off-road hill climbing. It turns out there is sort of sweet spot for that. I tried this recently and it resulted in my front wheel shooting up off the ground, causing me to fall backwards about 6 feet and breaking a rib. There were other factors involved in my act of derpery, but I still maintain that the QKJ is ill-suited to steep technical climbs. It is crazy torque-y, but still an e-bike, only weighing 70 lbs., and not having enough power to back the torque up. A dirt bike, by comparison, actually has less torque, but much more power, weighs a lot more, and has skinnier tires, so it will shoot up hills with a planted front wheel where this e-bike will just flop over backwards. And this really comes back to what this bike is for... it is perfectly suited to off-road terrain on sand, mud, snow and grass on flat or moderately hilly terrain. That said, it is really well planted for descents. It is however, again very high-centered because of the size of the tires which makes steep technical descents also kind of scary. It is also surprisingly good in a city. It is equipped stock with CST Roly Poly's, which have surprisingly decent rolling resistance and cornering grip on asphalt, but you will of course need to purchase a rack or a trailer for this bike. Trailers work better on this bike imo. Those tires also go up to 30 PSI, which is very high for fat tires, but it means that it works great going back and forth between road/off-road if you air your tires up and down properly for conditions.
In summary, buy a bike similar to the QKJ, i.e. a fat-tire, full-suspension e-bike, if:
- You need an all-rounder e-bike that can handle off-road terrain of various types and road riding
- You understand the difference between a fat-tire e-mtb and a regular e-mtb
- You understand the difference between an e-mtb and a motorcycle
- You have good or excellent bike handling skills
- You don't plan to use it for steep, technical hill climbs (it does fine on steep climbs on the road or fire roads)
- You like e-bikes because you accept that you will still need to put in some exercise
- Use cases: hunting, surfing, fishing, adventure biking, all-rounder with some adjustments for road use (rack, trailer)
Don't buy a fat-tire, full-suspension e-bike, if:
- You don't know what a fat-tire bike is
- You don't understand the difference between and e-bike and a motorcycle--you probably shouldn't be riding either until you educate yourself
- You want a regular e-mtb; just buy one of those
- You want an electric moped or motorcycle and don't want to get any exercise; just buy one of those
- Use cases: DH, enduro, single-track, moto/dirt-biking, throttle only city moped/motorcycle
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