Help me choose (PLEASE) between a Aventon Pace 500, Level, Ride1Up 500, 700, LMTD

[Jmarc]

New member here everyone, looking for some help. By going through all the threads, it seems that a lot of people are pretty well versed on these bikes so any help and advice would be greatly appreciated.

I'm 40, in pretty good shape, ride a non-motorized city hybrid today and looking for a good city e-bike for commuting and some fun. The daily commute would put me at around 20 miles every day round trip, and I'm sure would take one of these things for longer rides on the weekends.

I've been doing hours and hours of research, reading these forums, Youtube vids, etc etc. I'm not the most tool savvy, but can do basic stuff on the bike to maintain the chain and stuff like that, but would keep the tune-ups and adjusting of any mechanical parts to the experts. I'm not scared at putting the bike together but depending on what I get, may just get a shop to do it. With that said, here we go....

I test rode a Pace 500 and Level. Walked into the shop wanting the Level, but was came out torn because I really liked how light and nimble the Pace 500 was. However, I hate the wing handlebar, and would want to swap that out, and put fenders and a rack on it, all of which are already on the Level. Plus making those mods to the Pace 500 will bring the cost of the bike practically to the cost of the Level. Like the fact they both have hydraulic brakes as well.

My continued research also led me to look at Ride1Up, and found the 500 and 700 to be comparable. The 500 slightly heavier, but they sell it with racks and fenders (if wanted,) comes with a front headlight, better battery, suspension, riser handlebars. BUT, no hydraulic brakes.

The 700, heavier, but not too much and same as the level, color LCD display, racks, fenders, suspension fork, better Schwalbe tires, bigger battery, hydraulic breaks, integrated front and rear lights.

What I also like about Ride1Up is that their controller allows you configure the PAS levels, whereas the Aventon's don't. It appears to be well documented that the Aventon's seem to burst out of the gate even at PAS1. Riding in and around the New York City area, there's a lot of bikes and people. A sudden burst into traffic may not be the best thing and being able to configure those levels to me seems to be a safer option.

I tend to like to ride aggressively, and my concern is whether the weight of the Level or the 700 will slow me down from the start. I also wonder how hard the 700 and Level would be to ride without any PAS in the event my battery dies or i just want to ride a little without it. The Pace 500 felt pretty easy to ride without the PAS, so I would guess the 500 would feel the same, but again, I'm not sure I'm comfortable with a Class 3 bike with mechanical brakes.

So when I think things start to point towards a Ride1Up 500 or 700, I see a bunch of complaints about chains falling, people having issues with their voltage when adjusting in the advanced settings, so I'm getting a little worried on that end when there's no dealer support like with the Aventon's. I understand customer service is pretty good with R1U, but my technical savvy only goes so far.

Lets throw the L'MTD in there to make things more confusing. Seems like an upgrade over the others, especially with the torque sensor giving the bike more of that traditional bike feel over a cadence sensor.

I'd like to stay somewhere in the Level/700 budget. But for whoever took the time to read the above (THANK YOU) no bike is perfect, the 500's would both be more nimble which I would like, but they have their downsides also, Pace i would have to change and add some stuff which will add to cost and for that, and I might as well get a Level or 700, but I worry the 700 maybe too heavy to ride without any PAS from time to time and not feel as nimble. The 500 has mechanical brakes, but comes pretty well equipped everywhere else.

So as you guys can see, I feel like I'm spinning in circles here and probably just overthinking a few things.

Any ideas, advice, push in the right direction would be greatly appreciated. If anyone wants to ask me anything, please feel free.

Thanks!

 

[WattsUpDude]

I'm going to throw in the Hilltopper Discover for you to check out. It's only a little more than the other bikes but it's 44 pounds and uses a torque sensor.

If you have hills, you might want to check out the Motobecane Elite Adventure from BikesDirect since it has a Shimano middrive and torque sensor. I think it's a really great value.

My first bike was the Aventon Pace 500. It's fast on flatland but it's not a great climber and I really disliked the PAS programming. Like you, I ride in a crowded city so the "jackrabbit" starts can be dangerous with other traffic around me. Also note that the throttle is not active from a standstill; you need to make almost one full rotation of the cranks to enable it. That makes starting off on an incline difficult on an already heavy bike.

 

[Jmarc]

Thanks dude. I don’t see myself going up too many hills. We have a few bridges to cross here and while there’s an incline, they’re relatively short and before you know it, you’re downhill again and then on pretty much shitty flat streets with potholes, speed bumps, and broken glass lol (f*ck NYC). Eitherway, I plan on using PAS to get up those hills, not the throttle, so I’m guessing it shouldn’t be too bad

But let me digress, I’m sure once I get this thing, I’m probably gonna go out searching for hills to climb haha.

but yes, that “jackrabbit” start on the Aventons worry me which is why I started looking at the R1Us. But it seems like the R1Us have their fair share of issues, compared to the Aventons

Do you think or know that the lighter bike will make a 350 watt motor feel as powerful as a 500-750 on a heavier bike? I see the Hilltopper is a class 2 and I was looking for a class 3. But I’m guessing I’m going to have to deal with a heavier bike with a bigger motor and battery combo if I want a class 3 that gets me 25-28 mph.

 

[WattsUpDude]

Everyone's riding style is different but the biggest factor in terms of responsiveness is the PAS sensor type. Having owned the Aventon (cadence sensor), an Orbea F30 (advance cadence sensor + speed sensor) and now a Yamaha (torque sensor + speed sensor + cadence sensor); I won't ever go back to a bike with only a cadence sensor since I like to ride bikes that feel like bikes. Weight is definitely a factor in handling but motors largely negate the impact on speed and acceleration. The other huge factor is middrive vs. hub drive but that subject has been covered extensively in other discussions here. For my area, a middrive is much more efficient and can handle a much heavier load since the gearing can be leveraged. These are just general knowledge statements but if you're able, it's always good to try out as many bikes as you can. Try out the more inexpensive hub drive + cadence sensor bikes and then try out some middrive + torque sensor bikes and see which one fits your riding style and budget the best.

 

[Jmarc]

I appreciate those tips, all great points. I also just came across the Surface 604 which seems comparable to the Level and 700, but comes with a torque sensor, and weighs only 50lbs. It’s still a rear hub motor, but for about $2,000, I’m guessing that’s not a bad deal for a bike with almost identical specs as for the other two, lighter, with a torque sensor. It seems like mid-drives are little more expensive. Gonna try and test ride that one too.

Having test rode a few Aventons with cadence sensors, do torque sensors make that much of a difference and do you think that’s a little too much for a 1st bike or do you think that’s how I should go off the bat?

But I do agree about test riding a few. Seems like buying one of these is like buying a car

 

[WattsUpDude]

I quite like Surface 604 bikes but their prices are at the point where "if I spend just a few hundred more, I can get xxxx instead." But that's where my personal needs and riding environment come into play. I'd sacrifice speed for climbing ability and natural responsiveness. If you don't have to deal with sustained or steep hills, hub drive is a fine option.

In my experience, torque sensors makes a HUGE difference in responsiveness and natural pedal feel. With the Aventon, you cannot ride it in a slow and controlled manner unless you're off the motor assist altogether. When I rode it on my commute (San Francisco), I'd always have to slightly engage the brake lever to initiate motor cutoff when starting off in traffic. With my Yamaha, I can be in the highest PAS level and still ride it as slow as a standard bike. I can compare cadence sensor vs. torque sensor like an on/off switch vs. a volume knob. Torque sensors give you a lot of control over your speed and power.

And yes, it's like buying a car. Even $1500 is not an insignificant amount of money.

 

[Jmarc]

Yea, I feel like the Surface 604 would be in that, “if I spend just a few hundred more range” for where I’m at. Don’t think I want to go any higher.

Now I definitely want to ride this or something with a torque sensor to see if I would really enjoy that more. I do ride kind of aggressively, so having more of that natural feeling control may just make me happy. Also around 50lbs, I should be more nimble to ride. It also bring the R1U L’MTD into play. That’s cheaper than the Surface, but comparable specs and if I wanted to add a rack, fenders, lights, it’s essentially the price of the Surface.

Dude, I really appreciate your feedback. This is literally the kind of help I needed, thank you!!

 

[GenXrider]

I've made these comparisons quite a few times - you might want to review older posts on this.
Ride1Up 500 if you want cheaper and lighter. Don't worry about the brakes.
Ride1Up 700 if you want enclosed/hidden battery, wider tires, default rack & fenders with a little extra weight.
The current gen of these allow you to tweak the power percentage of each assist level so you can really control how much the motor assists you and how much muscle power you want to contribute.

Ride1Up LMTD if you want a torque sensor bike, more expensive, lighter weight, also has wider tires, and more torque.

The thing that turned me off about the Aventon was the too aggressive assist in the lowest assist level, where I would like less assist, and it doesn't allow you to adjust the power of each individual assist level.

 

[Jmarc]

I've made these comparisons quite a few times - you might want to review older posts on this.
Ride1Up 500 if you want cheaper and lighter. Don't worry about the brakes.
Ride1Up 700 if you want enclosed/hidden battery, wider tires, default rack & fenders with a little extra weight.
The current gen of these allow you to tweak the power percentage of each assist level so you can really control how much the motor assists you and how much muscle power you want to contribute.

Ride1Up LMTD if you want a torque sensor bike, more expensive, lighter weight, also has wider tires, and more torque.

The thing that turned me off about the Aventon was the too aggressive assist in the lowest assist level, where I would like less assist, and it doesn't allow you to adjust the power of each individual assist level.

Thanks for chiming in. I’m sure I’ve read your comparisons a few times. I just wish there was a bike that had a little bit all of the above.
I agree with you on the Aventons and the aggressive assist even in level 1. That’s what turned me to R1U.
I’ve only test rode cadence sensor Aventons and I have no idea what a torque sensor feels like. from all I read, seems like those are way better than cadence sensors, but also see people say for commuting, a properly configured cadence sensor will do.
As a first ebike, and as someone who likes riding aggressively, do you think I should for a torque sensor off the bat?

 

[BET]

We have a Ride 1up 500. We also have an Espin Sport. I think the Espin Sport is a better bike and a better deal. Same weight, about 55 lb but the Sport weight includes the standard rear rack, front and rear fenders and lights while none of that is included with the 500. They have similar components but Espin has hydraulic brakes, concealed battery and just seems more comfortable and made better to me. We have had some QC issues with our 500 including chain coming off. My Sport has never had that issue and has a better chain guide. Both are cadence sensor and have throttles which are great for City/ suburban riding. Throttles will work from a full stop unlike the Aventons. You can adjust power settings on both in the advance menu setting. My Sport rides well with no power and goes a comfortable bike path speed in level 1. I do not have an Aventon but I would suggest trying them if you need a small or large frame as they sell frames of various sizes. In short, the Sport is a nice bike with all the benefits of a Ride1up 700 with less weight and less money. We also have an Espin Nero but it has 4 inch tires and is much heavier. For your use I think a road type tire (2 inch), in a bike around 50-55 lbs will work.

 

[Jmarc]

We have a Ride 1up 500. We also have an Espin Sport. I think the Espin Sport is a better bike and a better deal. Same weight, about 55 lb but the Sport weight includes the standard rear rack, front and rear fenders and lights while none of that is included with the 500. They have similar components but Espin has hydraulic brakes, concealed battery and just seems more comfortable and made better to me. We have had some QC issues with our 500 including chain coming off. My Sport has never had that issue and has a better chain guide. Both are cadence sensor and have throttles which are great for City/ suburban riding. Throttles will work from a full stop unlike the Aventons. You can adjust power settings on both in the advance menu setting. My Sport rides well with no power and goes a comfortable bike path speed in level 1. I do not have an Aventon but I would suggest trying them if you need a small or large frame as they sell frames of various sizes. In short, the Sport is a nice bike with all the benefits of a Ride1up 700 with less weight and less money. We also have an Espin Nero but it has 4 inch tires and is much heavier. For your use I think a road type tire (2 inch), in a bike around 50-55 lbs will work.

From what I’ve been reading throughout these forums, that’s been the general consensus about espin. Just good bikes at a great price and no one seems to have a bad thing to say about them. If you don’t mind me asking, what’s the top speed? I can’t seem to find it anywhere on their site but I see it’s a class 3, so it should be at least 25 mph. Do you also find that the bike jumps from the start at PAS1, or does it have a nice smooth acceleration?

Looking at the specs and price, definitely seems like almost no-brainer.

 

[Quick514Biker]

We have a Ride 1up 500. We also have an Espin Sport. I think the Espin Sport is a better bike and a better deal. Same weight, about 55 lb but the Sport weight includes the standard rear rack, front and rear fenders and lights while none of that is included with the 500. They have similar components but Espin has hydraulic brakes, concealed battery and just seems more comfortable and made better to me. We have had some QC issues with our 500 including chain coming off. My Sport has never had that issue and has a better chain guide. Both are cadence sensor and have throttles which are great for City/ suburban riding. Throttles will work from a full stop unlike the Aventons. You can adjust power settings on both in the advance menu setting. My Sport rides well with no power and goes a comfortable bike path speed in level 1. I do not have an Aventon but I would suggest trying them if you need a small or large frame as they sell frames of various sizes. In short, the Sport is a nice bike with all the benefits of a Ride1up 700 with less weight and less money. We also have an Espin Nero but it has 4 inch tires and is much heavier. For your use I think a road type tire (2 inch), in a bike around 50-55 lbs will work.

So you can also custom adjust the PAS levels on Espin Sport(I was aware it could be done with Ride1Up bikes)? How's the climbing ability on both bikes, in moderate to mid size hills?

 

[GenXrider]

The Sport has only 1.95" tires and the smallest cog on the rear cassette is 12T.
The Ride1Up 700 has 2.4" tires and the smallest cog on the rear cassette is 11T.
I prefer the 700's higher top gear for less hamster wheeling as well as the wider tires.

I also much prefer the 700's capability of adjusting the power of individual assist levels. I haven't seen any evidence that you can adjust individual power levels on the Sport. In the Sport LCD manual, there's an "assistance level" (shows "64" on display in graphic) and a "max current limit" (shows default 15), but there's no indication if that assistance level (or current) is something that can be configured for each assist level rather than a global setting. I'm not sure if the assist levels are based on speed or power, either.

This is how it looks on the 700 display.

 

[Jmarc]

We have a Ride 1up 500. We also have an Espin Sport. I think the Espin Sport is a better bike and a better deal. Same weight, about 55 lb but the Sport weight includes the standard rear rack, front and rear fenders and lights while none of that is included with the 500. They have similar components but Espin has hydraulic brakes, concealed battery and just seems more comfortable and made better to me. We have had some QC issues with our 500 including chain coming off. My Sport has never had that issue and has a better chain guide. Both are cadence sensor and have throttles which are great for City/ suburban riding. Throttles will work from a full stop unlike the Aventons. You can adjust power settings on both in the advance menu setting. My Sport rides well with no power and goes a comfortable bike path speed in level 1. I do not have an Aventon but I would suggest trying them if you need a small or large frame as they sell frames of various sizes. In short, the Sport is a nice bike with all the benefits of a Ride1up 700 with less weight and less money. We also have an Espin Nero but it has 4 inch tires and is much heavier. For your use I think a road type tire (2 inch), in a bike around 50-55 lbs will work.

So I ended up jumping in on an Espin Sport. It was a good mix of pretty much everything I was looking for, and for only about $1250. While it may not have the color display and the ability to configure your PAS levels, it was lighter than the 700/Level and that was more important to me. But for the most part, it has equal or comparable parts (some better than the others,) but racks, fenders, integrated lights, hydraulic brakes, suspension fork, integrated battery in the down tube. The design looks pretty clean. Plus I it doesn’t look like there’s many complaints about the bike, it’s chains falling off and electronics failures like I see with R1U. The PAS levels while pre-configured, don’t seem to have that “jack rabbit” effect like on the Aventons. For the most part, it’s seems like nothing but positive experiences with the bike. Customer service doesn’t seem bad, I even sent them an email about something and they got back to me same day.

The way I see it, in giving up a color display and PAS controls (which isn’t the end of the world), I saved myself an extra $250 or so that I can use on some goodies like a suspension seat post and having a shop putting it together so I know it’s done right.

For a first e-bike, that price and all this considered, seemed like a no brainer. Now I just gotta be patient and wait a month until I get the damn thing (I hope!) Thanks @BET for sending me in this direction.

 

[WattsUpDude]

Nice! What color did you get? Let us know how you get along with it when you have a few miles in.

 

[Jmarc]

Nice! What color did you get? Let us know how you get along with it when you have a few miles in.

I ended up going with black, but that cobalt blue was hard to pass on. I really liked the contrast between the black battery in the blue down tube. But it came down to safety and security. I’m in Brooklyn, NY and I’d much rather have a bike that doesn’t stand out, and doesn’t scream thousand dollar e-bike around here. While the blue would’ve turned a lot of heads, I’d rather just keep it stealth and fly under the radar.

Once I get it, I’ll definitely come back and give my own little review. F*cking excited! =)

 

[AHicks]

Congrats!

 

[GenXrider]

So I ended up jumping in on an Espin Sport. It was a good mix of pretty much everything I was looking for, and for only about $1250. While it may not have the color display and the ability to configure your PAS levels, it was lighter than the 700/Level and that was more important to me.

The way I see it, in giving up a color display and PAS controls

While I prefer the 700 for various reasons, including the wider tires, higher top gear, the looks, and programmable assist levels - the color of the display is actually not one of them. I've read multiple complaints that the PAS level is difficult to read on the 700 because of the colors used to display it.

 

[AHicks]

My biggest complaint on the 700 is regarding the moron that decided to mount the kick stand so far forward, when clearly it's going to be snagged by the crank arm when the bike is rolled backwards more than a foot or 2.

 

[Jmarc]

My biggest complaint on the 700 is regarding the moron that decided to mount the kick stand so far forward, when clearly it's going to be snagged by the crank arm when the bike is rolled backwards more than a foot or 2.

You make a great and usually unnoticed point. The placement of the kickstand. It’s back near the rear wheel away from the crank arm on the Espin Sport..a small, but important design feature.