Haibike FS RX Wattage 250?

[eDean]

I was a bit surprised to see a deccal on my Haibike FS RX head tube that says 250 watt motor. Is that correct? This site states 350 watt, bosch claims 250 watts on their 25km/h model. The same decal also says 20 mph top speed so it mush be an American model.

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

The performance drive with 350W motor has red logo on it and is programmed to reach 20mph. The ones rated at 250W have grey logo on it.
As far as I know, every Bosch system on Haibike Xduro line up is performance drive that puts out 350W (Felt uses the same but I see some KTM's using the 250W drive).

 

[eDean]

Thanks Ravi, the bike has the red logo and a 250w decal. If anyone asks from law enforcement, I'll point to the decal.

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

Thanks Ravi, the bike has the red logo and a 250w decal. If anyone asks from law enforcement, I'll point to the decal.

One reason it might feel little underpowered is because gearing is very crucial for Bosch mid drives. Beautifully explained in this video

 

[eDean]

Thanks Ravi. I think they nailed something in that video. I have to pedal and pedal harder to get results on the Bosch. You have more control on the Bosch since you have gears and the assist reacts very fast to user input. Here are the published assist levels (I tried to insert html and could not, what's up with that)

Mode BH Bosch
eco 70% 50%
standard 140% 120%
sport 200% 190%
boost 300% 275%

I find the BH assist levels of sport and boost to be identical. On a Neo Jet you are pretty much at full throttle on normal terrain in sport. Sport on BH may exceed 200% and may be closer to boost? Once the weather clears up a bit I might do a shoot off between these two bikes. The Haibike has an assist bar and BH does not so it hard to really know how much you are getting.

What I was surprised to find is that going up hills in Georgetown, it felt around the same level of effort if not less in eco on the Bosch. So now we know that comparing eco BH to Bosch may not not apples to apples but 70% to 50% which explains that a bit.

 

[eDean]

Took out the FS RX today after work for a short ride before dinner and sunset. The question of how much power is there really has been on my mind, so I put it on full assist and rode around my neighborhood. What I found is that the assist level is strong, but you have to work for it. There is more torque but it does not come free. You must work. This is a major differentiation to how the BH systems operates. The BH system will provide more assistance at lower levels settings and at higher levels pretty much rockets you to full speed with almost no effort on your part. Its more liberal with spending power. The Bosch system is really trying to complement your input and requires work receive any level of boost. Makes sense on the mountain bike where you want control, I suppose. I think one of the reasons the range number as so strong on the Bosch drive is that you are forced to provide real input at any level. In eco the system is minimizing its power consumption strictly The BH has the ability to really take you home with light pedal assist and full output. This is not an option on the Bosch. The flip is the Bosch provides very nuanced control and never gets ahead of you. You can feel the torque going up hills but unless you are on turbo, it gets neutered. Its very German I suppose, if they say 275% assist, they mean that quite literally. After almost year, I still don't understand the difference between sport and turbo on the BH.

The ride inspires hoodlum antics, jumping curbs, sharp turns, running over pot holes for fun. It rewards your input and really can wear you out. If you don't put in a lot of effort, your speeds will not be that fast so you end up putting in more input and there is just no cheating. I really noticed this on the way home from my second ride. I'm a bit out of practice from the long rideless never ending winter of sub biking temperatures and could have used an easy mode to take me the last 3 miles home... Nope, had to pedal or go pretty slow. Went home and slept really good.

Oh, one more thing I saw that NC had really nice weather last week and am thinking it might make sense to make the four hour trip there during the winter to get some ridding in.

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

Awesome.
Let's do GAP (at least part of it) in April. Me and @opimax are up for it.
You're very correct about rider input. It is a very nuanced system but BH just overpowers you. On flats, it will feel underwhelming compared to BH or BionxD series motor but I am pretty sure it will be outperform in technical climbs (w/ proper gearing). The bike in that video had 1st Gen 250W Bosch, I'm certain FS Rx can do much better and will certainly entice you to try some off-roading.

 

[Lenny]

Took out the FS RX today after work for a short ride before dinner and sunset. The question of how much power is there really has been on my mind, so I put it on full assist and rode around my neighborhood. What I found is that the assist level is strong, but you have to work for it. There is more torque but it does not come free. You must work. This is a major differentiation to how the BH systems operates. The BH system will provide more assistance at lower levels settings and at higher levels pretty much rockets you to full speed with almost no effort on your part. Its more liberal with spending power. The Bosch system is really trying to complement your input and requires work receive any level of boost. Makes sense on the mountain bike where you want control, I suppose. I think one of the reasons the range number as so strong on the Bosch drive is that you are forced to provide real input at any level. In eco the system is minimizing its power consumption strictly The BH has the ability to really take you home with light pedal assist and full output. This is not an option on the Bosch. The flip is the Bosch provides very nuanced control and never gets ahead of you. You can feel the torque going up hills but unless you are on turbo, it gets neutered. Its very German I suppose, if they say 275% assist, they mean that quite literally. After almost year, I still don't understand the difference between sport and turbo on the BH.

The ride inspires hoodlum antics, jumping curbs, sharp turns, running over pot holes for fun. It rewards your input and really can wear you out. If you don't put in a lot of effort, your speeds will not be that fast so you end up putting in more input and there is just no cheating. I really noticed this on the way home from my second ride. I'm a bit out of practice from the long rideless never ending winter of sub biking temperatures and could have used an easy mode to take me the last 3 miles home... Nope, had to pedal or go pretty slow. Went home and slept really good.

Oh, one more thing I saw that NC had really nice weather last week and am thinking it might make sense to make the four hour trip there during the winter to get some ridding in.

Haibike FsRx is more like a Jeep while your BH can be compared to a sports car. So, it's not a fair comparison.It might take a week or two to grasp the nuances of the Bosch system.

 

[eDean]

Haibike FsRx is more like a Jeep while your BH can be compared to a sports car. So, it's not a fair comparison.It might take a week or two to grasp the nuances of the Bosch system.

Very true. As I learn more about the system and how settings, gearing, speed, and range interact my range is really improving. There is more to think about but you you can really dial in how much assist you want at a speed for a level of effort.

 

[NoDTMF]

Interesting read, I have 2014 KTM with Bosch Active, but I think the new ones are Performance. I completely with @eDean about the way the Bosch system works. I have taken the bike up very steep hills, where I would spin out and have to push. It seems "to know" that I need all the help I can get! On some long steep hills I did get tired and had to stop. I keep thinking if I should investigate swapping out the motor for a Performance line. But I really use the bike for commuting and Active is just fine. ( BTW, I like reading the Haibike forum since there are no posts to the KTM forum :-(

 

[MLB]

Agreed, as configured from the factory, the Stromer is very powerful. it comes set at 70 out of 100. Turn it down to 30 or 40 and its much tamer and more bike like. It's very configurable for all performance parameters.
That said I find the Xduro more sensitive to my riding input as described and find it's sophisticated assist delightful. I'm stunned by how good the suspension is and how much it helps me enjoy the ride.
Today I had to get off the paved trail and explore some of the mild hills in the park where I ride and around a pond that I've often parked at and walked around. it was a blast.

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

Agreed, as configured from the factory, the Stromer is very powerful. it comes set at 70 out of 100. Turn it down to 30 or 40 and its much tamer and more bike like. It's very configurable for all performance parameters.
That said I find the Xduro more sensitive to my riding input as described and find it's sophisticated assist delightful. I'm stunned by how good the suspension is and how much it helps me enjoy the ride.
Today I had to get off the paved trail and explore some of the mild hills in the park where I ride and around a pond that I've often parked at and walked around. it was a blast.

It's a great system for off-road riding conditions. The 2016 models with CX system is tuned quick acceleration from stop.
Haibike will announce their 2016 models in a month and they have 30+ new models. Much more discreet than 2015 models. Gorgeous I must say.