Haibike Flyon......2019

[Countrygent]

ATTITUDES!

Seems to be plenty of that from the Mass mtb contingent on other forums that are more focused on preventing eBike access there than allowing it. I grew up in So. VT., my youngest son was born in Pittsfield, and we had a term for that, Massholes. So many good trails in the area and no reason that legal type eBikes can't co-exist but you do seem up against it. Being proactive as you are doing is the best path. Good luck!

Also PFB is the lobbying/access mouthpiece for the BPSA, Bicycle Product Sales Association, and the BPSA, while in general in favor of eBikes as their board is heavily stacked with industry executives with skin in that game and sales, also runs the risk of alienating the dino bike sector also under their auspices so they are moving forward but at a slow pace allowing the eBikes themselves to be represented as harmless by the consumers that are using them.

As more of a hiker than biker I find the antagonism of some mtb groups to ebikes to be selfishness pure and simple. They have torn up and muddied thousands of trails in NA that were opened up and maintained by hikers, (not talking about technical purpose-made singletracks here, but multi-use trails). Hikers learned to share with mtb’s even though hiking was degraded by bikers (IMO at least) and I and many other walkers have still had decades of bad interactions with aggressive mtb’ers on shared trails, particularly when dogs are along. At least ebikes let some otherwise physically challenged people share more nature and backcountry. It isn’t about the type of bike it’s about the attitude, consideration and sharing? Anyway, I am on the side of ebike access.

 

[tallpaul]

Anyone know when these will be available in the US?

 

[baxterblack]

Haibike needs to focus on customer service, and stop pushing to become an E moto Bike - rather see refinements to support pedal assist for ebikes to coexist on community rail-trails and roadways .

 

[Brooks]

Photographed from the side view it looks good.... but viewing the Flyon announcement video Ravi put up I find that bulbous downtube to be just plain.......UGLY

 

[tallpaul]

Photographed from the side view it looks good.... but viewing the Flyon announcement video Ravi put up I find that bulbous downtube to be just plain.......UGLY

I see what you are talking about. I'll reserve judgement until I see the bike in person. Haibike has had mostly good designs on their offerings. But the specs on the motor and battery sure sound good!

 

[flynbulldog]

I love this whole conversation, hikers hate mountain bikers, who hate ebikers, who hater electric motorcyclists, who hate 4 stroke motorcyclists, who hate 2 stroke motorcyclists, who blame atv'ers, who blame side by side maniacs, who hate jeep drivers, who blame rock crawlers... everyone points the finger up the line and it's never inclusive or understanding. We are all selfish and blameless. We want the world to ourselves and everybody else is the enemy. I'll tell you what, we better all just learn to get along because your rights are no greater than theirs no matter what you think they are doing to the trails.

 

[LimboJim]

I love this whole conversation, hikers hate mountain bikers, who hate ebikers, who hater electric motorcyclists, who hate 4 stroke motorcyclists, who hate 2 stroke motorcyclists, who blame atv'ers, who blame side by side maniacs, who hate jeep drivers, who blame rock crawlers... everyone points the finger up the line and it's never inclusive or understanding. We are all selfish and blameless. We want the world to ourselves and everybody else is the enemy. I'll tell you what, we better all just learn to get along because your rights are no greater than theirs no matter what you think they are doing to the trails.

That's a great take on it! There was a line in Kevin Costner's new series "Yellowstone" that went something like this: "This is America. We don't share land!" Even Woody Guthrie would have to agree, at this point.

The only thing I'll say about usage "rights" on trails is that Jeeps, motorbikes and ATVs have no place on hiking/biking trails. I recently encountered two ATVs flying side-by-side around a blind corner on a popular state park hiking trail at at least 30 MPH - damn near ran me off the side. Granted, it's a "fire road" in that section, but I'll never concede that they belong there. And there's no way a pedelec eMTB could achieve that speed, which is why Class 3 ebikes are disallowed from trails in places that consider Class 1 ebikes to be bicycles.

I also saw two full-size Jeeps on the same trail a couple months ago, and just heard that Park Rangers got their plates from trail cams. They're filing criminal charges, as there are several "No Motorized Vehicle signs posted in the area. So at least the law here doesn't agree that their rights are equal to MTBers, hikers etc.

 

[Brooks]

I love this whole conversation, hikers hate mountain bikers, who hate ebikers, who hater electric motorcyclists, who hate 4 stroke motorcyclists, who hate 2 stroke motorcyclists, who blame atv'ers, who blame side by side maniacs, who hate jeep drivers, who blame rock crawlers... everyone points the finger up the line and it's never inclusive or understanding. We are all selfish and blameless. We want the world to ourselves and everybody else is the enemy. I'll tell you what, we better all just learn to get along because your rights are no greater than theirs no matter what you think they are doing to the trails.

Not my take on this thread..... it's about the 2019 Flyon

 

[tallpaul]

Not my take on this thread..... it's about the 2019 Flyon

I was thinking the same thing!

 

[DDBB]

I don't see why the non e-mtb crowd here in the US is so upset. As long as the tire spinning bombers aren't on the trails, a virtually silent 250w e-mtb has no more impact on the trails than their bikes do.. I weigh 175 lbs. so I have the same impact on an ebike as a 210 lb. rider on his dino bike. Bottom line is the dino crowd have had these trails to themselves forever and resent people riding "their" trails w/o having to work as hard as they do to get up the hills..That all being said, this is getting off topic a little.. The FLYON rocks! Let's just hope we have a place to ride them here in the US

 

[tallpaul]

Still wondering if anyone has any idea as to when the Flyon models will be available here in the US?

 

[DDBB]

I sure hope so.. They look awesome..

 

[bob armani]

Hope you're right, Ravi.

I donate to People for Bikes, but don't get the sense that they're advocating much for eMTB access to natural surface trails on public land, at least not yet. They're up against some pretty staunch and vocal MTBers! For my part locally, I've taken at least two dozen different folks - mostly friends - on pedelec rides so far, and hopefully soon will be doing a small "demo day" with some Park Rangers and state administrators.

Them Bosch sales stats are NUTZ but also reflect the current "no sharing" mentality for much of the US populace, IMO. US cyclists complain about ebikes zipping past them on roads, and younger MTBers hate being passed by old guys on electric mountain bikes.

That's what needs to change - ATTITUDES!

LimboJim- You are correct about attitudes. Sometimes when passing a biker on the trails, they throw the ole' stink eye at you with an attitude. Some of them can be a bit confrontational. I just defuse and ride on. Do not want to get into it with a mad-hater during a glorious ride on an E-bike.

 

[Tommygun]

I've seen the render of the "adventure" version of the flyon and it is AWESOME, too bad it will surely cost way to much for my finances.

I hope to never test ride one, it could be fatal to my marriage.

On the topic of eMTB market, it is true, here in Europe they're selling LOADS of them and I don't think I'm exaggerating by saying that in few years from now they will substantially replace the Dino bikes on Northern Italy's trails.

I had a very interesting chat with a couple of bike rentals and hotel owners in the Dolomites and they confirm that already HALF of their business is on ebikes, with a two digits annual growth.

Yes, we have some ebike hate and pro/Vs dispute here too, but it's not stopping the trend, nor slowing it down.

Me myself I'm a perfect example to this:
Rode a bike last time as a teen, got into racetrack and off road motorcycles for 25 years, always used a car for commuting, now I'm back on a bicycle thanks to ebikes.
Didn't touch my car in the last four weeks.

 

[Dmitri]

Some of my thoughts on the FlyON (fairly obvious stuff actually):

• 5000 lumens seems like either marketing gimmick or an error. My Supernova with 1100/1600 lumens already burns out the eyes, and burns plenty of lithium, too. You don't need 5000 lumens, period.
• Magura brakes with rotor-integrated speed sensor... how about NO. Magura brakes are spongy and honestly, once you try some decent brakes (Shimano Saint) you'll understand. Bad, bad, bad. Not to mention this interferes with magnet derestriction dongles (eg BadassBox).
• DT Swiss suspension... to each his own I suppose but I still believe the FIT4 damper is superior to everything I have tried.
• The downtube looks extremely fat compared to, say, the Supercharger (which btw has two downtubes).

I sincerely hope Haibike does not move away completely from the Yamaha motor because at least with Yamaha we get custom batteries, sensible manual operation (no drag) and zero-delay engagement.

 

[Manu]

Haibike knows that yamaha is one of its biggest sales.


This year has models with integrated battery with yamaha.

No badassbox/blackped/etc, yes .... your yamaha speed pedelec 45 km / h or unlocked yamaha is faster than the flyon .....

within 2 years something will appear


5000 lumens

I deduce that its light power can be graduated by the user.

Magura
With emtb quad piston ok.

Dt swiss

If I have not tried them, I can not say

The downtube
They go the electric cables and the cables of brake all inside and I assume that they will have thought bigger internal capacities of battery

What I like most about that downtube is that the battery output is lower, water can not enter at least from the front directly from the wheel .


I would like with double plate a 32 and 44 to take better advantage of its performance when everything is disconnected

 

[Dmitri]

It's happening... Haibike's website now lists the 2019 models, including a few FLYON ones. Some observations:

• They seem to have restricted FLYON to the more expensive models; the cheapest FLYON equipped bike is €5000, the top tier one is €9000.
• The remote has a LED. This is similar to the Yamaha display which has a single LED that turns green for Eco, blue for Standard, red if there's an error, etc. Personally I find the Yamaha LED infuriating.
• Yamaha hasn't given up on either Bosch or Yamaha yet.
• Integrated light is nice but claiming to offer 5000 lumen on the powerful variant... I'm wary of claims like that. Also I don't think that much light is street-legal — for example, Lupine Alpha, an extremely powerful light, had some problems being sold in Germany.
• Integration with Abus: I can get behind this. Abus does nice things, like having a single key for battery and integrated lock on my R&M.
• Integration with Magura: I find this a little objectionable. Magura brakes are not to everyone's taste, and I've been arbitrarily researching this by letting different people from our group try the Magura brakes. An absolute majority hate the feel, so that's my scientific research right there. I suppose people with no experience with other brakes might find them OK.
• 38 tooth sprocket, just like Yamaha. Unfortunately, this one looks proprietary.

 

[JRA]

I rode this or one just like it at Interbike a number of years ago.



For sure it was all top quality gear and it had really good power. But.....it had a huge amount of drag while the motor was off, was heavy (mainly due to the battery size to be fair) and Expensive, at least for that time anyway. The parasitic drag was the real turnoff for me though. Hope they worked through that obstacle.

 

[Dmitri]

had a huge amount of drag while the motor was off

That's not good. The reason I prefer Yamaha over Bosch is precisely the fact that you can pedal it with the motor off. Also (anecdotally) Yamaha battery life is better because your own power gets transferred better. Could be I'm imagining things.

 

[tallpaul]

I rode this or one just like it at Interbike a number of years ago.

View attachment 26401

For sure it was all top quality gear and it had really good power. But.....it had a huge amount of drag while the motor was off, was heavy (mainly due to the battery size to be fair) and Expensive, at least for that time anyway. The parasitic drag was the real turnoff for me though. Hope they worked through that obstacle.

From what I have read on several reports is that the Haibike Flyon freewheels when the motor is off or reaches it max speed cutoff, which obviously would be a definite plus, add that to the lighter weight of the carbon frame. Which, speaking of weight, I haven't seen any specs on the weight of their Flyon Carbon Fiber models.Also disappointed that it will probably be late 2019 or into 2020 or so before we see these in the US.