Gazelle Arroyo vs Trek Verve +1

[Lily7]

I am looking to buy my first E bike, Trek Verve +1 or Gazelle Arroyo.
Both were very comfortable to me.
I live in a hilly neighborhood and have a small dog that I would like to put in a carrier on the back of the bike.
I like the upright position of both bikes. I’m 5’4 and weigh about 112 pounds. Just wondering which would be easier on my knees to get up the hills.
Thanks!

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

I am looking to buy my first E bike, Trek Verve +1 or Gazelle Arroyo.
Both were very comfortable to me.
I live in a hilly neighborhood and have a small dog that I would like to put in a carrier on the back of the bike.
I like the upright position of both bikes. I’m 5’4 and weigh about 112 pounds. Just wondering which would be easier on my knees to get up the hills.
Thanks!

Welcome aboard! It would be helpful to know what parts of cycling your knees don't like.

For example, my knees really hate high-torque, low-cadence pedaling and cadences below 75 RPM in general. Otherwise, they're happy to pedal as long as my butt allows.

I always pedal with effort, usually at low assist, but when those high-torque, low-cadence situations arise — e.g., in traffic or when starting out uphill— my progressive thumb throttle keeps my knees out of it, usually just a second or so at a time. Without that capability, cycling would be out for me.

I also live in a hilly area. To keep my knees at tolerable cadences, I had to lower the gearing. Something to think about as you shop.

Good luck.

 

[dodgeman]

A Trek Verve +3 would be better. A more powerful motor and bigger battery than a Verve +1. A Verve +1 would probably work for you because of your light weight though as long as you aren’t going far. I’d guess the battery would get you about 25 to 30 miles.

The Gazelle Arroyo I found info on is a C5. If that’s what you’re looking at it’s a lot more bike than the aTrek. A much stronger motor and bigger battery. Looks like it costs more too. Of the two bikes the Gazelle specs out much better.

 

[Lily7]

Thank you so much! I think my knees may be similar to yours. Thanks for the good advice about the lower gear. Do you have a throttle on your bike? I was wondering if that might be a good idea for me. I tried an Aventon Soltera. I preferred the feel of the trek and gazelle, but the throttle was handy.

 

[Lily7]

Thank you! The gazelle Arroyo C8 was on sale, so not much price difference from the trek verve +1.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

Thank you so much! I think my knees may be similar to yours. Thanks for the good advice about the lower gear. Do you have a throttle on your bike? I was wondering if that might be a good idea for me. I tried an Aventon Soltera. I preferred the feel of the trek and gazelle, but the throttle was handy.

Ability to generate significant bursts of speed or torque at a moment's notice carries big benefits in both safety and convenience. If you can manage that without a throttle, great.

My knees aren't up to that task. If the same applies to you, I'd give a throttle serious consideration. Just make sure it's a progressive overriding (aka on-demand) throttle — one that delivers instant motor power, up to full power, at all non-zero assist levels. Some throttles don't work that way.

I have a torque-sensing 500W, 65 Nm hub-drive with that kind of throttle. Lowered the gearing to 26-100 gear-inches (stock was 34-105). That combo works great with my knees, traffic exposure, and hilly terrain. I use my throttle less than 1% of the time but wouldn't give it up. Saves my knees for the long haul.

Members I trust generally favor mid-drives for climbing, but mid-drives with throttles are uncommon. Zen may offer one. Might be worth a look.

 

[AvalancheRun]

I would probably go Arroyo. The Hyena motor on the Trek is mostly unknown, whereas the Bosch Active Line is one of the most widely used motors in the world.
40 nm of torque for the Hyena isn't a lot, 50 nm from the Bosch is better. That particular Bosch is one of the quietest motors on the market, it should be almost inaudible a lot of the time.

Try to test it out on some hills, and make sure to shift gears! Bikes are most efficient when your cadence (speed of pedaling) is fairly fast.

Also, the Specialized Vado 4.0 is still on sale and $2750. It has 75 nm of torque, still extremely quiet, and is probably a better overall bike. Might be worth testing.

 

[Lily7]

Thank you for your reply!
I just tried a salsa confluence today. I really liked it and the battery wasn’t even charged and didn’t work. I love that I could write it even if the battery doesn’t work. And I like the simplicity of the electronics, no Bluetooth, etc..

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I just tried a salsa confluence today. I really liked it and the battery wasn’t even charged and didn’t work. I love that I could write it even if the battery doesn’t work.

I would rather check whether the electrical system worked before buying

Mahle X35 hub-drive motor and a 250 Wh battery? Ouch. I would decidedly check if the system worked before buying! A search for "Mahle x35" for thread titles only and a little bit of research could be an eye-opener... Why don't you just buy a traditional bike if you can ride an e-bike without any assistance?

And I like the simplicity of the electronics, no Bluetooth, etc..

So no possibility to tune the assistance modes or diagnosing the internal status of the electronics? Or, the battery health?

 

[Lily7]

Of course, I would want the motor to work. But for a short ride around the block, it was fine. I think for the long-haul my knees could use a throttle on the hills.

 

[Lily7]

Thanks for the heads up about the Mahle x35!

 

[Rás Cnoic]

I would rather check whether the electrical system worked before buying

Mahle X35 hub-drive motor and a 250 Wh battery? Ouch. I would decidedly check if the system worked before buying! A search for "Mahle x35" for thread titles only and a little bit of research could be an eye-opener... Why don't you just buy a traditional bike if you can ride an e-bike without any assistance?


So no possibility to tune the assistance modes or diagnosing the internal status of the electronics? Or, the battery health?

And yet and yet multiple high end bike brands use the Mahle hub gears and youtube has plenty of happy road and gravel riders using them.

From Cannondale to Merida and Lapierre, Orbea, Wilier, Decathlon, Mondraker, Kinesis, GT, Cinelli, Bianchi, 3T, BMC, Ridley and Scott, (haha just noticed that pun) surprised myself how many well known brands use them! And thats not including the many more smaller niche brands like Salsa, Rose or Simplon and dozens more. These lightweight hub motors are now so widespread and on so many different bike brands they've become ubiquitous. If they are such a disaster why are so many of these famous and very reputable brands still using them?

And emtb forums have plenty of Levo and Kenevo riders also complaining about faults to Brose and SL motors and why? Because ALL motors can fail at some point and people come on forums to complain about faults but if things are working they just happily ride.

FYI the Mahle X20 System was awarded the prestigious Design & Innovation Award for 2023

 

[Stefan Mikes]

FYI the Mahle X20 System was awarded the prestigious Design & Innovation Award for 2023

It still is problematic. X35 is a way older system. I am not sure if it is fair to advice an e-bike make/model (including the motor) without owning one first. For instance, I can tell anyone of my experiences with Specialized/Brose or Specialized SL, and I would not be sycophant on everything.

Many of the brands you mentioned before had gone with the X35 (and now they go with the X20) simply because they had no alternative solution at that time. Have you noticed Cannondale is happy to use a Bosch mid-drive motor on their Topstone Neo? More and more of these brands, Salsa including, turn their back to Mahle in favour of lightweight mid-drives.

 

[Rás Cnoic]

It still is problematic. X35 is a way older system. I am not sure if it is fair to advice an e-bike make/model (including the motor) without owning one first. For instance, I can tell anyone of my experiences with Specialized/Brose or Specialized SL, and I would not be sycophant on everything.

Many of the brands you mentioned before had gone with the X35 (and now they go with the X20) simply because they had no alternative solution at that time. Have you noticed Cannondale is happy to use a Bosch mid-drive motor on their Topstone Neo? More and more of these brands, Salsa including, turn their back to Mahle in favour of lightweight mid-drives.

You're not really up to date Stefan. The Confluence is a new model from Salsa announced the same time as the Tributary in February 24. Brands use the Mahle systems for lightweight bikes and other systems for heavier bikes with more grunt. Like Speccy with SL and Brose. Perhaps you should not advise people on systems you don't own and brands you don't know.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

The Confluence is a new model from Salsa announced the same time as the Tributary in February 24.

Isn't it funny that the Tributary uses a Bosch mid-drive motor?
I wonder what made Salsa choose the old X35 for the Confluence. Less problematic than the newer X20? Or, less expensive?

Again, I'd love seeing you riding a Salsa e-bike

 

[Lily7]

Are any of these brands worth checking out: Heybike, Jasion, Gotrax, Varun?

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Not.

 

[AvalancheRun]

IMO something from Trek, Gazelle, Specialized, etc. are going to be a lot better to pedal. There are a million DTC brands out there. Since you have a nice budget I would personally stick to those brands speaking very generally.

 

[Lily7]

I just tried a Pedego Avenue and really liked it. Any thoughts?

 

[AvalancheRun]

I just tried a Pedego Avenue and really liked it. Any thoughts?

Lesser known company that hasn't been around as long (2008) and has 45 nm nominal torque. I think you were on the right track with Gazelle/Trek personally. There is a lot that goes into a good e-bike.

FWIW as an owner of a Gazelle Ultimate C380 I am still eyeing (the much cheaper) Vado 4.0.