Future Bike Model Proposal: Roadster 800

[Asher]

Ride1Up caught my attention with its value and finish. Instead of having just an inferior and superior bike, 500 and 700, I'd like to see a revived, upscale roadster model, as a more lithe alternative to the 700:

*Rigid fork
*Wide but light tire (like Conti Speed King, ~500 g), potentially tubeless ready.
*17.5 ah battery (thus the 800)
*Hydraulic disc and 9+ speeds
*750W and 28mph
*Fenders and rack
Price range: $1600-2000.

In other words, something responsive, powerful and athletic, and that if you took the battery off, would still be fun to ride once you get it moving.

This would be more like the Stromer and the Trek/Specialized models being fielded, where there is no heavy suspension fork. I had this on my Juiced, with a Salsa CroMoto fork, and it was a blessing.

 

[Doug Goodenough]

That would be cool. I see very little value to suspension fork on an urban bike. Just more weight and one more thing to break / wear out. I keep the susp fork on my 700 on lockout most of the time anyway as I like to stand a lot on climbs and hate the bobbing sensation of suspension forks. A bit broader gearing would also be a big plus.

 

[Asher]

That would be cool. I see very little value to suspension fork on an urban bike. Just more weight and one more thing to break / wear out. I keep the susp fork on my 700 on lockout most of the time anyway as I like to stand a lot on climbs and hate the bobbing sensation of suspension forks. A bit broader gearing would also be a big plus.

One thing I've heard is that a suspension, or even a full suspension, is best for high speeds; but when I had my Juiced, I would usually go 22-24 mph; I'd only go over on short bursts or select areas where traffic was low and/or I had a smooth long straightaway without intersections. A suspension may be prudent if you want to go 28 mph always, but not every Class 3 owner - I suspect most - don't want to do that.

 

[krdugger]

I like it. Have some bad news good news here. We will be releasing two new models. The higher end one matches most of what you want, except it has suspension. Quick side note there; I don't know how your roads are, but here in California, potholes/cracks/bumps are everywhere. No front suspension can almost be dangerous. It can definitely throw you off balance when going over 20mph. If riding slowly, it's not so bad.
anyway, the high-end model we are releasing will have nearly everything you wanted, but with a air-suspension front fork from rst, and it will be $1699. It will go 28mph (or 31 if unrestricted) and have high-end components. It will be available this spring. Actually, it won't have fenders and rack stock, but that's something you can easily add of course. Our budget model will have no suspension, go 28mph, and look like the 700 series. It will be $999, so it will only have a stock 10.4ah battery and mechanical brakes. Compromises that don't bother me, but aren't exactly what you are looking for.

 

[Asher]

Nice, your high end model at least provides a path to what I described.

Did you forgo fenders to keep price down? I don't see why you'd leave them out. I don't know for a fact, but I suspect lots of casual riders will have that as a hard requirement;

I was riding my Juiced with a rigid steel fork and 60 mm G-One speeds around Southern California on a daily basis, in the LA area, especially the west LAX/El Segundo area. But I'd ride from Venice to Korea Town and didn't really take issue with the roads besides the odd alley where water and oil pool and erode pavement.

However I did move to another city far away with the bike, and the roads are much worse, and riding became much more unpleasant if I wasn't careful about picking my route, because this city is far far worse than SoCal - thank ice, salt and corrupt mafia resurfacing contracts.

 

[krdugger]

yeah, it was my understanding that road surfaces are relatively poor nearly everywhere in the United States at this moment. >_<
The fenders and rack are more to do with weight, packaging, and assembly complications. We will add the standard mounting points and potential reach the future goal of selling them as a separate addition. You can always add a 3rd party rack or fenders just about as easily in my mind.

 

[Explorer-1]

yeah, it was my understanding that road surfaces are relatively poor nearly everywhere in the United States at this moment. >_<
The fenders and rack are more to do with weight, packaging, and assembly complications. We will add the standard mounting points and potential reach the future goal of selling them as a separate addition. You can always add a 3rd party rack or fenders just about as easily in my mind.

>We will add the standard mounting points
Definitely This!

All e-bikes should be able to mount standard racks even if it means multiple mounting points for a few different options or adapters. I agree, it is not critical for these to come preinstalled, easy to do on ones own or to have their local bike shop do it if the bikes have pretty standard mounting options.

The proposal for the 800 just reflects that there is no one-size fits all for bikes or e-bikes. I feel I get great value out of my front suspension on the road and off. I think they should generally be better quality than they are and with the price we pay could be made of better materials and designs, but I like having them and I'm sure many others do or they would not be there.

I'm definitely all for the biggest battery, not sure why my EUC came with an 800Wh battery 4 years ago, and now come with 1500-2400Wh batteries and e-bikes are still playing with baby batteries. The problem still seems to be related to the fact that they are e-bikes, and not two-wheel EVs, and the many of the more well know vendors buying batteries from someone else and then insanely marking them up like they invented something original. There seems to be a bit of unspoken price fixing on batteries from the big bike players, but luckily there are some alternatives.

 

[krdugger]

I'm not sure I agree on the wh's, but I do understand what you are saying. For me, 500 wh is enough. I ride to replace my driving, and typically do so for every journey under 20 miles. If riding for hours of recreation, I could see why you would want 100 miles of range. Or perhaps you are just commuting that far. 1500wh+ is an insanely large battery for a bike. If you are using the largest capacity 18650 cells (3500mah), you would need 117 cells (assuming a 48V arrangement, 9P13S) to get 1500wh's. That becomes an electric moped or motorcycle at that point.
In summary, the two biggest reasons why you won't see that on most electric bikes; It's prohibitively expensive and ebikes would be too heavy not using only the motor.

 

[Blasst]

I like it. Have some bad news good news here. We will be releasing two new models. The higher end one matches most of what you want, except it has suspension. Quick side note there; I don't know how your roads are, but here in California, potholes/cracks/bumps are everywhere. No front suspension can almost be dangerous. It can definitely throw you off balance when going over 20mph. If riding slowly, it's not so bad.
anyway, the high-end model we are releasing will have nearly everything you wanted, but with a air-suspension front fork from rst, and it will be $1699. It will go 28mph (or 31 if unrestricted) and have high-end components. It will be available this spring. Actually, it won't have fenders and rack stock, but that's something you can easily add of course. Our budget model will have no suspension, go 28mph, and look like the 700 series. It will be $999, so it will only have a stock 10.4ah battery and mechanical brakes. Compromises that don't bother me, but aren't exactly what you are looking for.

Will there be a Step-through model?

 

[Asher]

All else equal, I like metal fenders stock because they're usually color matched to the frame, and the cost to the manufacturer + profit margin will still be lower than buying it yourself, especially if paying someone to install it. I get the logistics complications though, especially for a startup.

More generally, not talking about the fenders here, for a direct sales company, I think it's really important to have a complete package right out of the box, because there is no dealer/store to upsell on accessories. And no matter how much sense an upgrade/addition makes, only a fraction of users are going to do it, and they'll have to do it at much higher cost than the manufacturer. Canyon is a model here - they spec their bikes pretty well across the board, for the given price. Having an incomplete bike may even be a boon for bike nerds, but that's going to be a minority of your potential customer base.

As for batteries, I had a 922 wh and it was great, but you're really pushing the physical constraints of a bike if you go much past ~1500. IMO the advantage of a bigger battery is not so much the range but a) having higher voltage for longer - more power and b) being able to stay in the sweet spot for battery lifespan (say, 40-75% charge). But yeah, the extra batteries sold elsewhere are way marked up, that's one thing I liked about Ride1Up, the spare batteries are priced far below $1-2/wh, what you see from other brands.

yeah, it was my understanding that road surfaces are relatively poor nearly everywhere in the United States at this moment. >_<
The fenders and rack are more to do with weight, packaging, and assembly complications. We will add the standard mounting points and potential reach the future goal of selling them as a separate addition. You can always add a 3rd party rack or fenders just about as easily in my mind.

Well when you get the chance, try something like the Moto tires on a rigid frame .

 

[Blasst]

yeah, it was my understanding that road surfaces are relatively poor nearly everywhere in the United States at this moment. >_<
The fenders and rack are more to do with weight, packaging, and assembly complications. We will add the standard mounting points and potential reach the future goal of selling them as a separate addition. You can always add a 3rd party rack or fenders just about as easily in my mind.

I myself don't ride in the rain, and I ended up taking the fenders off of both ST 700's after a couple of weeks. Looks better also I really like the racks, kept them on, masculine looking, no wimpy looking crap. Now I know some need a bike for everyday transportation, and will end up in the rain and want fenders in those conditions. There are lots of options for aftermarket racks and fenders at a reasonable price. Thanks for the info on the new bikes coming this spring Kevin.

 

[BlackHand]

Kevin, will you be standardizing on the Reention Rhino format on all your models then?

 

[krdugger]

Kevin, will you be standardizing on the Reention Rhino format on all your models then?

No. Utilizing Reentions Eel pro on our next model, coming in the next couple months -http://www.reention.com/product/detail/82

 

[BlackHand]

Thanks, I appreciate the response and your willingness to share details about your bikes. I would've thought it would make sense to start to consolidate battery formats across your lineup to simplify support and inventory.

I guess it comes down to what's available from your source and meeting your price point though. You've made some good choices in the components of your offerings, so looking forward to full details closer to launch.

Hopefully your next batch of 700's and your new bike don't get further delayed by the situation in China.

 

[krdugger]

No problem. It's not about price or what's available, everything is available. It's purely by choice. The batteries made by reention really limit what we can do with the frames. So for a variety of frames with different riding styles, we use different battery shapes. Otherwise our frames would be much of the same.
Production has been delayed a bit, but now nearly everyone is getting back to work, so we definitely have some catching up to do.

 

[Asher]

I like it. Have some bad news good news here. We will be releasing two new models. The higher end one matches most of what you want, except it has suspension. Quick side note there; I don't know how your roads are, but here in California, potholes/cracks/bumps are everywhere. No front suspension can almost be dangerous. It can definitely throw you off balance when going over 20mph. If riding slowly, it's not so bad.
anyway, the high-end model we are releasing will have nearly everything you wanted, but with a air-suspension front fork from rst, and it will be $1699. It will go 28mph (or 31 if unrestricted) and have high-end components. It will be available this spring. Actually, it won't have fenders and rack stock, but that's something you can easily add of course. Our budget model will have no suspension, go 28mph, and look like the 700 series. It will be $999, so it will only have a stock 10.4ah battery and mechanical brakes. Compromises that don't bother me, but aren't exactly what you are looking for.

When do these models get announced in more detail, April? @krdugger

 

[krdugger]

Yes, I hope to have the details of this model along with photos on the site in early April. There are a lot of things to work on at the moment. Hope it all goes smoothly!

 

[Blasst]

Yes, I hope to have the details of this models along with photos on the site in early April. There are a lot of things to work on, so we will so. Hope it all goes smoothly!

Excited to see what the new models look like, a nice thing to look forward to right now.

 

[cahostetler]

Kevin, will either model have torque sensors? What about step-through and swept back handlebars like the 700ST? I am really tempted to buy a Biktrix Swift because it has so many of the features I like. However, I feel you guys really design a nicer bike (wiring, parts used, and aesthetically) and would rather wait and purchase from you guys if the features are going to be available.

 

[krdugger]

Hello, this specific new model will have a torque sensor, but not be a step-thru bike and have standard touring riser bars. Our 700 series has a ST frame with swept back bars, and soon our 500 series will have an ST frame with swept back handlebars as well.