frustrated rant: the more i learn the more i cant find an ebike

[fnkyhd]

as a long-time road bike commuter with a hernia repair that doesnt like riding anymore ive been very interested in getting one of these for my commute which would involve rain, more rain, maybe snow and more rain...10 months out of the year...but damn everything looks suspicious. all of the reviews on here are too positive. why? why does everyone give everything five stars these days? then it means nothing! so i go out looking on my own and start looking at details. i was looking at rad bike: not available. mail order bikes: guy at power bike shop says "dont order online". neighborhood ebike shop has cheap components on $3000 bikes (why would you put sram or low-end shimano components on a bike with that much torque?). another shop and the battery does not seal against the frame and it looks suspiciously like any water that gets in there will go right over all the electronics and into the bottom bracket! i dont know if ill get kicked off for posting this but maybe some of you feel my pain. i am ready to wait for perhaps a decent bike to come along. bike suggestions for tough conditions suggestions welcome!

 

[Barry S]

Can you give us some more details on your commute: terrain, flats and/or hills, paved or dirt, strong headwinds, etc. Then, if you don't mind can you tell us your height and weight. That will give us a start.

As for the reviews here on the EBR forums, I can tell you there is a fair amount of bad experiences to balance the good ones. We try to learn from each other and hopefully can pass on enough info to get you pointed in the right direction and narrow your search.

 

[ralph cramden]

as a long-time road bike commuter with a hernia repair that doesnt like riding anymore ive been very interested in getting one of these for my commute which would involve rain, more rain, maybe snow and more rain...10 months out of the year...but damn everything looks suspicious. all of the reviews on here are too positive. why? why does everyone give everything five stars these days? then it means nothing! so i go out looking on my own and start looking at details. i was looking at rad bike: not available. mail order bikes: guy at power bike shop says "dont order online". neighborhood ebike shop has cheap components on $3000 bikes (why would you put sram or low-end shimano components on a bike with that much torque?). another shop and the battery does not seal against the frame and it looks suspiciously like any water that gets in there will go right over all the electronics and into the bottom bracket! i dont know if ill get kicked off for posting this but maybe some of you feel my pain. i am ready to wait for perhaps a decent bike to come along. bike suggestions for tough conditions suggestions welcome!

1. If you are talking tough, you would have to go German or Dutch. There is a company that sells genuine Dutch bikes in California. They are the toughest. The problem is weight. These type bicycles prioritize weight below ruggedness. I can expand more on this theme if anyone wants me to.

2. Yes - don't order online. Why? You might want support in the future. I ordered my bicycle online, from "Sports Authority." A month after I bought it, they went out of business. I ended up ordering parts online from Alibaba. I was getting warranty support by shipment from Prodecotech. My bike was offline during these periods. Finally I learned to use Alibaba and correspond directly with Chinese companies. Now after three years I have a new improved motor hub on my bike and a $350 10.5Ah battery. I am doing a mileage test and at 101.61 miles on a single charge (with minimum assist). Bottom line, the most rugged and supported system is Bosch mid-drive from a Trek dealer.

3. Electricity and water still don't mix. This is the Achilles' heel of e-bikes. You have to know the weather report and if you are dashing through a lot of puddles or streams, may the force be with you. Make sure you have a fully charged cellphone (in a waterproof case).

4. Good quality genuine SRAM components are among the best and most rugged. They are lightweight and durable. Everything is sealed and maintenance free.

 

[mrgold35]

I have two 2016 Radrover with +4500 miles between them and just purchased a RadCity Step-Thru for the wife a few weeks ago. I've got caught in a few rain and hail storms with my Radrover and she had zero issues with the mechanical or with the ebike electronics afterwards. Everything is sealed up nice and tight with Rad Power Bikes. We don't get a lot of snow in the southwest and usually don't ride if it is snowy/icy out.

The wife and I really like the Radcity step-thru because of the upright seating position, cruiser style handle bars, 750w rear hub, easy on/off step-thru frame, 2.3 inch plus size tires, adjustable stem, fenders, rear rack, front suspension, 14 ah battery with regen braking, throttle, and very stable at 20 mph. We added the Cloud-9 11.5X12.5 cruiser seat and Bodyfloat suspension seatpost and that made for a very comfy ride on almost any terrain.

One good thing about Rad Power Bikes are they are regular bikes with ebike components added. Any local bike shop, Amazon, or eBay will have parts for this bike if you need to upgrade the bike components. The Rad ebike components are just the LCD, wiring harness, light, controller, battery, or rear hub. Each of those parts are zero maintenance/tuning/firmware upgrades, inexpensive, and easy to exchange if defective.

I was in vacation in California and an EBR forum member suggested I rent the Radcity Step-thru from a local bike shop in Newport Beach to try before I buy. The wife love the step-thru and we were able to take our time and put around 40 miles on the bike in all kinds of commuter situations around Newport Beach (even took the ebike on a ferry).

I would check to see about ebike rentals and plan a weekend trip try or eliminate possible candidates. We did another ebike rental in Santa Barbara and we didn't like the Electra Townie Go or the BH Easy Motion Evo City Wave mid-drives at all compared to the Rad ebikes.

 

[fnkyhd]

PCdoc, i am 6'3 but ok with smaller frame for my size if position is more upright. my commute is 80-90% mostly unused multi-use path in the city & suburbs & i think any kind of bike would be fine although i do tent to hop curbs a lot. but it needs to be waterproof. not the occasional downpour here in seattle but rain most of the time and wind yes and sideways rain and sometimes snow

mrgold, the Rad bikes were the first ones i looked at and when they come in i will try to snatch one up but they dont allow pre-orders here and they advertise like crazy so it's hard to get one ...for the wagon & radcity anyway.

 

[Ed D]

PCdoc, i am 6'3 but ok with smaller frame for my size if position is more upright. my commute is 80-90% mostly unused multi-use path in the city & suburbs & i think any kind of bike would be fine although i do tent to hop curbs a lot. but it needs to be waterproof. not the occasional downpour here in seattle but rain most of the time and wind yes and sideways rain and sometimes snow

mrgold, the Rad bikes were the first ones i looked at and when they come in i will try to snatch one up but they dont allow pre-orders here and they advertise like crazy so it's hard to get one ...for the wagon & radcity anyway.

Since I bought my bike online, I thought I'd give a follow up to the bike I purchased.

Bike details - Biktrix Juggernaut Classic HD, 18 inch frame, 750-1000 watt mid drive motor, 48/19.2 battery, hydraulic brakes, front suspension fork, fat tires, back and front fenders, front light and rear rack, all for around $3,100.
I received the Biktrix Juggernaut Classic HD within two weeks of ordering it. First of all Roshan is great to work with. In the initial shipment, the fork was bent by the delivery company. I spoke to Roshan, sent him a pic and I received a new fork within a week. Great service!! Everything on the bike works perfect. I programmed for 20 miles per hour max, which is plenty of speed for me and changed the levels from 1-5 to 1-9. I am 5 feet 6 inches tall, on a good day, and I was able to configure the handles bars, so I am in fairly upright position riding. I have been on the trails and the roads about 10 times. The bike rides fantastic in both situations. Excellent power and I have the 48/19.2 battery, so plenty of range. I am extremely happy with my purchase from Biktrix and I am confident, if I was to have any future issues with the bike, Roshan would be immediately responsive. A great pic attached. Working on some add ons now.

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[rich c]

I read zero reviews when I bought my first ebike. Just bought a Sondors fat bike for $500 off Craigslist. It has over 1,700 miles on it now. Second ebike purchase, I drove 3 1/2 hours to a dealer that only sells ebikes. Intent was to buy a Bulls mountain bike. Rode 4 bikes, liked them all, but bought a demo Haibike, over 2,000 miles on it. Recently bought a tad pole e-recumbent trike, sight unseen, unridden, only based on reviews. After riding it for the first 3 to 4 times, I still hated it. Certain I would have to sell it on Craigslist. But I'm stubborn when I spend $3,500 for something. I made new seat mounts for a better position, bought shorter cranks, changed a couple options in the controller, and built up some new muscles for that style of trike. I have almost 400 miles on it now, and do enjoy it for crushed stone rail trails. Still don't enjoy it a lot on road travel. So with these miles and experience, I'm a strong advocate for LBS. NOTHING will replace demo time in the saddle. Secondly, sounds like you will be fine as a bike mechanic. Not that common for ebike riders. Most on-line purchases require the owner to do the wrenching when a failure occurs.

 

[WilliamT]

I have a 2016 Radwagon (steel frame/forks) and I commute all year round. I've been through heavy rains, sleet, 40 mph crosswinds across bridges, snow, 15 degree (F) temperatures, unplowed frozen trails, and one tropical storm (60 mph wind gusts). I probably shouldn't have been out during the storm. I have close to 5000 miles on it and it's been a reliable workhorse. I'm amazed given the abuse I put it through. It just cranks along. I've had no loose spokes as mentioned by others.

 

[hurricane56]

Unfortunately, some manufacturers including the big ones are going to cut corners on components. If you want very specific components, I'd recommend narrowing down your search to to the right frame size/style, battery capacity, and drive platform. From there you can figure out what you'll eventually change out.

On both of my ebikes, I had to change major components that were not adequate for daily commute use. My Haibike Trekking came with a coil spring Suntour fork, which was changed out to a RockShock unit. I also changed the brakes to four piston with 203mm rotors. That was a store bought bike. I also purchased an online sales bike with JuicedBike. I liked the motor and battery capacity, but the bike quickly turned into semi-DIY build as a swapped out the fork, front wheel, and motor controller.

All bikes will need a certain amount of customization.

 

[nublar]

Bought my Haibike online. 500 watt mid drive with 490 watt-hr battery. At a 20 mph average speed with many start/stops and almost maximum assist, I get 15 watt-hr per mile. Came with Deore/Deore XT and some decent Tektro Dorado Hydro's for under $1700 shipped.

 

[jazz]

I have several ebikes but my current favorite commuter is an Easy Motion Evo Snow Pro. It is 48v, all-wheel drive with 29er Schwabe tires and hydraulic brakes. The components are medium quality but fine for commuting. And because the battery is totally integrated into the frame, it doesn't look like an "electric bike" at first glance.

I purchased it new from Crazy Lenny at a price even less than RadPower, Juiced or Biktrix commuter ebikes. The overall build quality is fantastic, no issues in the past year and Easy Motion has a 5-year warranty on frame and electronic components like controller and motor etc and 2-year on battery - which I believe are up there with the industry bests.

The only things I added were a thudbuster seat and rear rack.

 

[bob armani]

I have several ebikes but my current favorite commuter is an Easy Motion Evo Snow Pro. It is 48v, all-wheel drive with 29er Schwabe tires and hydraulic brakes. The components are medium quality but fine for commuting. And because the battery is totally integrated into the frame, it doesn't look like an "electric bike" at first glance.

I purchased it new from Crazy Lenny at a price even less than RadPower, Juiced or Biktrix commuter ebikes. The overall build quality is fantastic, no issues in the past year and Easy Motion has a 5-year warranty on frame and electronic components like controller and motor etc and 2-year on battery - which I believe are up there with the industry bests.

The only things I added were a thudbuster seat and rear rack.

Yes, I have seen this bike and got me curious. How well does it perform in the snow opposed to your other single wheel-driven ebikes? Can you actually maintain control without going into sideway skids?
Make a deal at CL and you are bound to walk out with a smile on your face!

 

[Barry S]

@fnkyhd lots of good recommendations so far. I echo rich c's suggestion that you visit a reputable LBS (local bike shop) that sells ebikes in order to demo some of the different models. Your LBS is going to understand the conditions you're going to be riding in in order to narrow down your choices. Try both a mid-drive and a geared rear hub model if they have them to feel the difference. Bikes with a cadence sensor and those with a torque sensor will also respond differently. Frame geometry will influence your comfort and riding position, and a good LBS should be able to help with adjustments. As hurricane56 remarked, some customization is to be expected. Make sure the LBS not only sells the bike but can service it too.

Some Direct to Consumer companies offer opportunities for you to demo their bikes. Rad Power Bikes makes demo rides available through their Seattle store and they also list rental companies that have their bikes. Make sure to call the rental company beforehand as I've found that Rad's online list may be outdated. Voltbike is another company that provides demo rides through their Ambassador program, which connects current Voltbike owners with interested buyers. You can check on Voltbike's website to see if they have any Ambassadors in your area and then connect with them through the Voltbike's website. I finally got to try a couple of their bikes about a month ago through this program.

 

[bob armani]

@fnkyhd lots of good recommendations so far. I echo rich c's suggestion that you visit a reputable LBS (local bike shop) that sells ebikes in order to demo some of the different models. Your LBS is going to understand the conditions you're going to be riding in in order to narrow down your choices. Try both a mid-drive and a geared rear hub model if they have them to feel the difference. Bikes with a cadence sensor and those with a torque sensor will also respond differently. Frame geometry will influence your comfort and riding position, and a good LBS should be able to help with adjustments. As hurricane56 remarked, some customization is to be expected. Make sure the LBS not only sells the bike but can service it too.

Some Direct to Consumer companies offer opportunities for you to demo their bikes. Rad Power Bikes makes demo rides available through their Seattle store and they also list rental companies that have their bikes. Make sure to call the rental company beforehand as I've found that Rad's online list may be outdated. Voltbike is another company that provides demo rides through their Ambassador program, which connects current Voltbike owners with interested buyers. You can check on Voltbike's website to see if they have any Ambassadors in your area and then connect with them through the Voltbike's website. I finally got to try a couple of their bikes about a month ago through this program.

The Voltbike Amb program sounds intriguing, however, if you have somebody you don't know or never met ask that they demo your bike, what is the level of risk taken that someone will ride off with it? Just curious if Voltbike has any disclaimer regarding this issue.

You mentioned "Direct to Consumer companies". Ferrazzi bikes has an interesting program for the rider to keep it for 30 days; if you are not satisfied with the bike, they will even pay for return shipping. I notified them, and they also indicated that they will soon be offering an E-bike later this year. Same for Canyon bikes, however, they will not be releasing their E-bike (Spectral:ON) not till later next year.

 

[Alex M]

Visit a few LBS. Don't fixate on Rad, they are factory-direct, this is the reason for prices slightly lower than other comparable bikes. Budget another $200 to tune up RAD at Velofix (read - fix it) immediately after purchase. May or may not get lucky, you won't know until you receive it, so better budget in.

Ebikes up to $2K have entry-level components, it's the "E" part that costs. Plus, kinda custom frame (low volumes, not like regular bikes), plus shipping bulky frame and hazardous battery from China.

Your waterproofing worries are probably not substantiated, but - yes, I hear you about Seattle rains. Well into summer, and it's still like November. Smear all contacts with dielectric grease.

Mostly positive reviews... ... The industry is still growing, things not settled, conflict of interests here and there. Court is getting bikes for testing and reviewing, he doesn't buy them and doesn't have time to be as thorough as somebody who owned it for a year. Like others noted, read between the lines, educate yourself to be able to separate froth from broth, so to speak.

 

[Barry S]

The Voltbike Amb program sounds intriguing, however, if you have somebody you don't know or never met ask that they demo your bike, what is the level of risk taken that someone will ride off with it? Just curious if Voltbike has any disclaimer regarding this issue.

I know that when I first read about Voltbike's program, they did state that the Ambassador can refuse a request from a prospective buyer. As far as any other details or suggestions from Voltbike to their Ambassadors I don't know. I guess the risk would be the same if you were selling something on Craigslist or in your local paper. You agree to meet a stranger at an agreed location to show the item and they rob you. Sounds extreme, but we've all seen such stories in the news.

If I get a Voltbike and agree to participate in the Ambassador program, I would...

• never meet a prospect at my home
• set my GeekPro camera as a dashcam to film the meet-up
• limit the test course to something like a vacant shopping center parking lot
• have them leave me their current drivers license. One of the worst ordeals to live with is waiting in line at the DMV to get a replacement license.

Of course, all these precautions doesn't eliminate the possibility that the prospect crashes and wrecks your bike and maybe tries to sue you. Sad that we live in such distrusting times. Maybe it's not worth it.

 

[jhoblo]

I read zero reviews when I bought my first ebike. Just bought a Sondors fat bike for $500 off Craigslist. It has over 1,700 miles on it now. Second ebike purchase, I drove 3 1/2 hours to a dealer that only sells ebikes. Intent was to buy a Bulls mountain bike. Rode 4 bikes, liked them all, but bought a demo Haibike, over 2,000 miles on it. Recently bought a tad pole e-recumbent trike, sight unseen, unridden, only based on reviews. After riding it for the first 3 to 4 times, I still hated it. Certain I would have to sell it on Craigslist. But I'm stubborn when I spend $3,500 for something. I made new seat mounts for a better position, bought shorter cranks, changed a couple options in the controller, and built up some new muscles for that style of trike. I have almost 400 miles on it now, and do enjoy it for crushed stone rail trails. Still don't enjoy it a lot on road travel. So with these miles and experience, I'm a strong advocate for LBS. NOTHING will replace demo time in the saddle. Secondly, sounds like you will be fine as a bike mechanic. Not that common for ebike riders. Most on-line purchases require the owner to do the wrenching when a failure occurs.

I caution anyone from getting a proprietary system. I want to be able to fix things myself rather than rely on a dealer.

 

[AlanDB]

The Voltbike Amb program sounds intriguing, however, if you have somebody you don't know or never met ask that they demo your bike, what is the level of risk taken that someone will ride off with it? Just curious if Voltbike has any disclaimer regarding this issue.

I invited someone I met in this forum to take a test ride on my wife's e-bike. I never gave it a second thought ... but then, this is Iowa. I would be more cautious if I lived in NYC or Chicago. In the end, she declined the invitation because it turned out my wife's bike was too large for her, so it would not have been a successful test ride.

 

[rich c]

I caution anyone from getting a proprietary system. I want to be able to fix things myself rather than rely on a dealer.

Fix what? Controller, motor, rebuild a battery pack? Based on my first generic bike, and the Haibikes I ride now, I’ll take a proprietary bike any time. Light years ahead in technology and riding pleasure.

 

[Gator]

Hello and Welcome

I am pretty new here also. I read a lot about electric bikes and I watched a ton of Youtube videos on different bikes. I was totally overwhelmed with all the info, options, and decisions, along with the possibility of a big mistake with a dollar sign in front of it. Over time the choices started to narrow down. I figured out what I needed and narrowed my decision down to 3 choices. It appears like you have already started the process and you will get there. Once you decide on a bike or bikes, head over to the brands section of the forum and see what you can find out there. I talked with several people who own the bike I want and it seems like a good direction for me and any short-comings of the bike seem manageable. I won't even suggest the bike I am getting because one of the issues was water penetration messing with the electronics in a heavy downpour. No decision is without risk, just try to pick the risks you can manage the best. Mine is on order and I have not been this excited to try something new in a long time. Enjoy =D