Frey CC

[JCofMN]

Frey CC Range Primary State Variables

Because of the rainy frost warning local weather, my CC maiden voyage was down in the basement underground parking concrete bunker where I live. Since this was my first electric bicycle I did several loops around just to get a feel for the machine as a normal human powered only machine. For reference, my only recent adult experience with bicycles was when I acquired a FAT bicycle a couple of years ago as a change of pace alternative to an elliptical for low joint impact aerobic exercise. To my surprise, the Frey was much easier to pedal than my lighter KHS FAT bike. Clearly one of the main drivers is the difference between tire rolling resistance.

40 lb Fat 4 inch wide at 16 psi vs 73 lb CC 2.4 inch wide at 45 psi

Curiosity aroused of course I Googled “range vs tire pressure,” and immediately found this thread on this very forum:

https://electricbikereview.com/forums/threads/range-vs-tire-pressure.28759/

The thread also brings up the significant effect aerodynamic drag has even for the relatively low speed range of 5 to 20 mph. On my electric motorcycle, range anxiety is significantly increased if I have to take the freeway to get where I need to go.

It would be good to reproduce the range vs tire pressure curves specifically for the CC (there might be some different tire options to account for though) with both average speed and test temperature as parameters to assure apples to apples comparative results.

All in all, a very favorable first impression, although if I'd have known at the time of ordering I could have customized the color and had a selection of grips, I would have done so.

 

[TomD]

I decided to spend my Friday night learning how to adjust a derailleur. Granny gear was skipping badly and the next lower gear was making strange noises. I also noticed that when I shifted to the highest gear there was an extra click left on the shiftier. Things seemed to be poorly adjusted Frey, if at all! Some of the videos out there made my head spin, but I found this one to be excellent and very straight forward:

I never made it past step 3, as after I loosened the barrel tension and adjusted the high limit screw, then tightened the barrel back, all gears shifted smoothly and without excess noise after a little fine tuning of the barrel tension.

As a final check to cycle up and down all the gears to make sure they are shifting smoothly you can hold the down the minus on the display to initiate walk mode.

 

[BillyKidd]

Thanks Tom. That video cleared up alot of questions I had. I saw indexing in various posts but didn't understand what that was. Really great that no special tools are necessary.

 

[TomD]

Another ride today. Didn't worry about trying to conserve battery today. Just rode and enjoyed. Fantastic weather and this bike just can't take a bad picture.

Thought I was doing great on battery and decided to put it in sport mode to get home before dark. I got home with only 8% remaining after a 25 mile ride. 20% of the battery was consumed on the killer hill back up to the house which gains 700' in less than a mile. It showed 30% battery before I started up the hill (yeah, I know it's less than 30% as it's not linear). I decided to use it, putting it in sport 5 PAS most of the way.

I think I'd enjoy this bike more if I had gotten a spare and didn't have so much range anxiety. I must express my disappointment with Frey in this regard. I asked about range and they indicated 35-45 miles pedaling in sport mode which I'm just not seeing. I wanted an honest number so I could make an educated decision on whether or not to order a spare. Either they were putting on rose colored glasses or they switched battery suppliers and the cells are not the same quality.

 

[byunbee]

Another ride today. Didn't worry about trying to conserve battery today. Just rode and enjoyed. Fantastic weather and this bike just can't take a bad picture.

View attachment 52023

Thought I was doing great on battery and decided to put it in sport mode to get home before dark. I got home with only 8% remaining after a 25 mile ride. 20% of the battery was consumed on the killer hill back up to the house which gains 700' in less than a mile. It showed 30% battery before I started up the hill (yeah, I know it's less than 30% as it's not linear). I decided to use it, putting it in sport 5 PAS most of the way.

I think I'd enjoy this bike more if I had gotten a spare and didn't have so much range anxiety. I must express my disappointment with Frey in this regard. I asked about range and they indicated 35-45 miles pedaling in sport mode which I'm just not seeing. I wanted an honest number so I could make an educated decision on whether or not to order a spare. Either they were putting on rose colored glasses or they switched battery suppliers and the cells are not the same quality.

Maybe it was 35-45 miles in sport mode going downhill?

 

[Explorer-1]

That is one Fantastic looking bike.

 

[TomD]

Thanks, I've gotten a lot of complements. The one person that didn't seem to like it mumbled something about the red being too "bright", haha. I was worried the mid step might give it too much of a ladies bike look, but the beefy tube also gives it a muscle bike look, but not overdone.

For the most part I'd say this bike is a winner. While I've expressed some frustrations with the CC, no bike is perfect. There isn't really anything else out there like it that ticks so many boxes (mid step, full suspension with rack, powerful mid-drive, quality components, reasonably priced) and that's ultimately why I bought it.

Another fun ride today. This bike just loves to go fast. I usually leave it in Eco mode, PAS 1 and before I know it I'm cruising at 20mph+ on flats. I think this bike would make for a great commuter. It just feels so stable at speed and gets you to places in a hurry if you want, with the suspension soaking up the bumps.

I've been using a seatpost rack/bag as I don't have a panniers (or a proper bag) for the rear rack yet. I actually like this combination so may keep it. The seatpost rack has enough clearance that it doesn't bottom out on bumps, and works great to carry fragile items. I think I just throw panniers on the rear rack to carry heavy items.

A few more things to work out...

When I go over big bumps the power sometimes cuts out. I think this might be the gear sensor. For the most part it's only a minor annoyance, but when going up a steep hill and you lose power it's not fun. Almost fell off the bike going up the steep driveway today when it cut out unexpectedly mid way up. I may end up disabling the shift sensor. I usually ease off the pedals anyway when shifting, and sometimes it won't shift in higher gear unless I ease up on the cadence.

I continue to be annoyed by the torque sensing at higher PAS. I think when I finally get my programming cable I will program sport mode to be cadence sensing only. Eco mode isn't affected by programming so I'll still have torque sensing when I want it, but I can switch to sport if I want cadence sensing. Best of both worlds. I find that sport is almost too powerful, and it just sucks battery life, so don't really use it.

I'm also having some issues with the rear brakes. I sounds like a rolling drum as I'm coming to a stop. I also started to hear some squealing. I thought perhaps I didn't bed things in properly and the brakes might have gotten glazed. I took out the pads last night and they looked fine, so I degreased the rotors and did some hard braking before my ride to try and bed them in more. I think it helped somewhat, but I'm still getting some drum roll. The front brakes also don't seem to have enough bite. Maybe it's just the weight of the bike, but I'm underwhelmed by the Magura MT5 brakes with massive rotors.

 

[TomD]

Picked up a Banjo Bothers Market Pannier to test. I originally was looking at their Grocery Pannier but the Market Pannier has a top flap and looks a bit classier so I went with it instead. Here it is folded up emplty looking pretty sharp on the bike.

I wanted to minimize heel strike and have the lowest center of gravity so attached it to the lower rail on the rack pushed it all the way back with a ridge of electrical tape to prevent the hooks from sliding forward toward.

Unfortunately with the bag pushed back this far I needed to hook the bottom bungee to the Dt Swiss thru axle. It seems robust enough to tension and hold the bungee but I didn't want to risk damaging the threads so I improvised by inserting a long screw into the axle to distribute the stress, wrapped with electrical tape to provide enough friction to hold it in. Maybe this is a bad idea, but the thru axle rod is ~$30 to replace (cheaper than the pannier at $60).

Worked great on my first grocery run yesterday. Went over lots of bumps and the bag stayed put, with and without groceries loaded. The rear suspension isn't as responsive when loaded up with unsprung weight, but still provides comfort. I had no problem lugging a bag filled with drinks home. It didn't make the bike feel unbalanced hanging on only one side.

My only (minor) gripe with the pannier is there are no velcro attachments to hold the top flap down or secure the side straps when folded up. I put some tools in the flap pocket to weigh the flap down. Seems to work well enough and I need a place to carry tools anyway.

 

[TomD]

Ended up replacing my front fender (more specifics here) and posted a video with random thoughts. OK, I'm no Court Rye, but in my defense I shot this in a single take in my bathrobe and only had to cut a few bloopers, so not too shabby. Maybe I can twist Court's arm to venture down from Vancouver to Seattle to do a proper review.

 

[Johnny]

The weather finally cleared enough to take my CC out on its maiden voyage.

First a comparison of the 1000W Ultra to the 250W Yamaha PW motor on my BH Easy Motion Rebel Lite HT.

The Ultra motor is an absolute monster. Night and day vs. my euro spec mid drive. If I gear down and hit throttle it will climb moderate hills at ~15 mph in granny gear. Just crazy. On flats in highest gear it will exceed 35 mph on throttle alone. You feel the weight of the bike, but it's extremely stable at high speed, no concerns here. The power is just so addictive, it begs you to ride fast.

Unfortunately the torque sensing is lacking in comparison. The lag is noticable from a dead stop and it's clunky when the assist finally kicks in. I could also feel the torque sensing fade in and out, it just didn't feel very smooth or consistent relative to my euro spec mid drive. No way I'd want to ride single track on a heavy bike with Ultra motor, although the aftermarket Innotrace controller offered by Watt Wagons / Exess might offer redemption. My Yamaha PW delivers power as soon as I apply pressure to the pedals, night and day vs. the lag on the Ultra. I suspect the pedal lag will make it problematic to start from a dead stop on steep inclines as Frey has reportedly disabled throttle for safety reasons unless you are moving. I haven't tested this yet. I was hoping to do some tuning to the stock torque sensing but Frey forgot to send me the programming cable I ordered.

With that out of the way, here are some stats from my first ride. Other than the steep ride down the 700' hill from the house the ride was mostly flat, with a few moderate grades that normally tax my legs pedaling in Eco mode on my Yamaha PW. For the most part I used throttle only and rode at class 3+ speed (20-35 mph) to torture test minimum range. Total distance was 13 miles including the ride back up the steep 700' hill to get home. I switched to Eco mode PAS 3 on the hill and pedaled to preserve battery. Only had 20% battery remaining by the time I got home. It is important to note the battery hasn't been cycled so range may improve after a few charges as the cells balance. I can appreciate some of the frustration @Mark Tunis has with his CC. Range isn't great if you want to ride fast on throttle alone, although my battery never prevented me from going fast like his batteries apparently do. That said, I'm not sure this is how I would really ride my CC and I hope to compare to some rides I've done with my Rebel Lite to make other comparisons. I barely broke a sweat today on a ride that would normally have given me a decent workout. I have to admit it was a lot of fun, but closer to riding a moped than a bike.

Pre-ride weather:
View attachment 51712

Thanks for sharing your experience. I think this bike is a very good deal for the money.

That is a very nice looking bike. The background is also beautiful.

 

[Ebike Addict]

Ended up replacing my front fender (more specifics here) and posted a video with random thoughts. OK, I'm no Court Rye, but in my defense I shot this in a single take in my bathrobe and only had to cut a few bloopers, so not too shabby. Maybe I can twist Court's arm to venture down from Vancouver to Seattle to do a proper review.

Thank you for putting that video together. It is very useful and informative. Much appreciated.

 

[Deacon Blues]

Great video, Tom. I have the same problem with finding a comfortable seat. I have a Fabric seat on my road bike, which I really like and can do 40 mile rides with little discomfort. I put it on my Pedego RidgeRidger for a trial ride and couldn't wait to get it off after a short 15 mile ride.
I'm also still looking for that 'perfect' seat.
The WattWagons bikes I ordered are coming with Brooks saddles. I have two Brooks saddles (Cambium All Weather models) that I bought a couple of years ago and are now in my 'uncomfortable saddle' drawer. I hope the leather saddles that come with the WWSuperbike will be more comfortable.

 

[Nova Haibike]

Picked up a Banjo Bothers Market Pannier to test.

Sierra.com has the previous version of the Ortlieb Velo Shopper at a fantastic price. It uses Ortlieb's QL 2.1 attachment, which would eliminate the movement issues you have with the Banjo bag. Currently they have the bag in black, red, and blue.

 

[Nova Haibike]

Really interesting thread. The CC really catches my fancy from a visual perspective, but I fear the Bafang motor might seem relatively crude compared to by "wimpy" but smooth-as-silk Yamaha drive. Also, I already bristle at my bike's roughly 50 lbs.; 70+ is just about a deal breaker. I wish I could ride one beforehand.

 

[FlatSix911]

Ended up replacing my front fender (more specifics here) and posted a video with random thoughts. OK, I'm no Court Rye, but in my defense, I shot this in a single take in my bathrobe and only had to cut a few bloopers, so not too shabby. Maybe I can twist Court's arm to venture down from Vancouver to Seattle to do a proper review.

Tom, congrats on your new Frey CC... great video review, thanks for posting!

 

[TomD]

In term of the weight, it's funny, I used to pass my MTB in the garage and marvel at how light it felt at ~25 pounds compared to my ~50 pound eMTB. Now I marvel at how light the eMTB feels compared to my ~75 pound Frey CC. Just for grins I took the eMTB to run errands last week and missed the plush ride of my CC. The eMTB will still be my choice to throw in the back of the SUV for fire roads, but for trips that only require rolling a bike out of the garage the CC is the natural pick.

 

[FlatSix911]

Always a good thing to have choices... I now have 4 different Ebikes and a number of acoustic bikes. It may be time to thin the herd!

 

[byunbee]

Ended up replacing my front fender (more specifics here) and posted a video with random thoughts. OK, I'm no Court Rye, but in my defense I shot this in a single take in my bathrobe and only had to cut a few bloopers, so not too shabby. Maybe I can twist Court's arm to venture down from Vancouver to Seattle to do a proper review.

Great job @tomdav !

 

[bob armani]

Ended up replacing my front fender (more specifics here) and posted a video with random thoughts. OK, I'm no Court Rye, but in my defense I shot this in a single take in my bathrobe and only had to cut a few bloopers, so not too shabby. Maybe I can twist Court's arm to venture down from Vancouver to Seattle to do a proper review.

Nice video overview Tom. Looks like a solid commuter for around town/getting to/from the office, etc. At 70lbs, however, would be too much bike for me in my weight class at approx 135lbs. Certainly looks like you have some very nice components at that price point as well. Overall, if you get into that group buy to cut shipping costs, it is quite a bargain in comparison to others bought locally. There is a video that gets deeper into the company culture that is pretty impressive from the build quality standpoint.

 

[TForan]

Nice bike and all but what a yard ! Beautiful !