False marketing for motor power on rad power bikes?

[AHicks]

Don't do it because I said so, but if you're interested in more performance, it's something to look in to. Be aware that this would not be a "plug and play". A new non Rad controller would need it's wiring matched to the existing.

Note that the "soft start" they use was one of the big reasons I decided to totally re-power my City. It's not user definable like the LCD display and controller I went with.

Too stupid to leave well enough alone, currently looking at a MAC geared rear hub rated at nearly twice the power the stock Rover is rated at....

Point being, if you aren't happy with the power you have, it's not that expensive or difficult to fix that issue. Entire "kits" are pretty reasonably priced. The 1500w DD kit I went with, with motor and wheel all laced up, controller, LCD display, brake levers, etc. All set up to "plug and play" was less than 300. and took maybe 4 or 5 hours to install.....

 

[Feliz]

If this topic interests you watch this video "considering the radrover ebike" put out by Bolton EBikes on utube.

 

[AHicks]

Well, I figured it was just a matter of time. Bolton appears to be on top of his game. That's a great video.

 

[harryS]

Bolton is in good shape, being able to hold both motors up while not breaking a sweat while talking.

There is no legal definition, as far as I know, on how the 750 power limit is defined for ebikes in the USA. By default, most people would use electrical. One could run 750W into both motors, actually a lot more. The difference is that the larger motor puts out more power at the axle. The difference between electrical power in, and mechanical power out will mostly be heat. The result is a smaller motor gets hotter, and being smaller, cannot shed the heat as well. So a smaller motor is slower and gets hotter faster. Nonetheless, it's getting 750W as advertised. It's up to the rider not to flog his bike. I don't see this as false advertising at all.

Limited to 20 mph, I don't think a Radrover will ever overheat unless forced to climb a steep and long hill. I'm sure the manual warns against that.

 

[AHicks]

I would think the larger armature and rotor would have noticeably more grunt on the same amount of power. Just for the bigger magnets for the armature to push against if nothing else....

 

[MarkF]

It will eat more battery too. If nothing else, he proved a 350 motor can pull over a 1000 watts. So where do you draw the line on motor wattage? I wonder if Rad asked the motor company for a 750 Watt motor. And they said, sure this motor can do 750 watts? I don't think Rad intentionally tried to deceive anyone on their motor ratings. I noticed Evelo took down there 750 ratings on their bikes.

 

[CodyDog]

This is the motor ID on my 2018 Rad Rover. I ocassionally read where people say their ebikes rips up hills. I can not throttle only my Rover on a 10% grade or more ( I weigh 183 ). It will do 23 MPH on a flat paved road (no wind) with throttle only.

 

[MarkF]

I see a 750W sticker from the factory. Doesn't look like Rad was doing anything wrong to me. It doesn't really matter what your motor feels like. That has nothing to do with motor ratings.

 

[Feliz]

When I first saw Bolton's video a few days ago he also held up a 350 watt Bafang motor and it looked identical to the 500 and 750 motors I assume were from a Rad bike, for some reason, maybe as a result of the lawsuit, he edited it out. The 750 watt motors he uses on his bikes look a lot more substantial. I refer to his videos once in a while and find them very helpful but I don't have a bike with a Bafang hub drive.

 

[Feliz]

I see a 750W sticker from the factory. Doesn't look like Rad was doing anything wrong to me. It doesn't really matter what your motor feels like. That has nothing to do with motor ratings.

Right, a motor can have the same watt and torque rating but have different characteristics such as speed, rpm, resistance etc. I've wondered why Court doesn't do something like Bolton did in his video. The best site for explaining ebike motors and the lack of a rating system is Grin Technologies as they use and manufacture motors and if I recall have a dyno, even Grin are frustrated by the lack of standard.

 

[AHicks]

It will eat more battery too. If nothing else, he proved a 350 motor can pull over a 1000 watts. So where do you draw the line on motor wattage? I wonder if Rad asked the motor company for a 750 Watt motor. And they said, sure this motor can do 750 watts? I don't think Rad intentionally tried to deceive anyone on their motor ratings. I noticed Evelo took down there 750 ratings on their bikes.

Not playing the shame/blame game regarding Rad's intentions. Weighing the merit of the info shared in Bolton's video only.

My point was, when comparing the 2 different size 750's, large case vs. the smaller one, while feeding them both exactly 750 watts, they are both using the same amount of battery. At that point, logically speaking anyway, the bigger case SHOULD provide more grunt.

Obviously, the larger one is capable of dissipating heat better, and will handle higher than rated wattage better than the small one, as stated in Bolton's video. Next point also obvious. The bigger motor is CAPABLE of using a lot more power than the smaller one, thus using more battery - but only on demand.

This in mind, if Bolton comes up with the plug and play motor and controller hinted at, I can't wait to hear impressions of the differences, especially if paired up with that 35 amp controller on his web site. -Al

 

[MarkF]

Boltons channel is a good one. Very helpful. And he's giving away a free bike

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

Here's the link:
https://radpowerbikes.gallo.law/

This is the motor that they list is being used on some of their bikes, it does indeed say 500W max power: http://www.syimotor.com/product_3-2.html

Rad switched from Shengyi motor to Bafang motors years ago.
So this accusation has no base whatsoever.
Bafang is a VERY large manufacturer when it comes to E-bike motors. Much bigger than Yamaha or Bosch because of the sheer volume in Asian markets. They will produce whatever motor their customers request for.
For example, Juiced has 650W Bafang motor on their CCS and 750W motor on their CCX.

 

[AZOldTech]

Rad switched from Shengyi motor to Bafang motors years ago.
So this accusation has no base whatsoever.
Bafang is a VERY large manufacturer when it comes to E-bike motors. Much bigger than Yamaha or Bosch because of the sheer volume in Asian markets. They will produce whatever motor their customers request for.
For example, Juiced has 650W Bafang motor on their CCS and 750W motor on their CCX.

The OP (Original Post) was about the RadCity Shengyi motor. The RadRover uses a Bafang geared motor but the RadCity uses a Shengyi DD motor.

 

[Feliz]

Rad switched from Shengyi motor to Bafang motors years ago.
So this accusation has no base whatsoever.
Bafang is a VERY large manufacturer when it comes to E-bike motors. Much bigger than Yamaha or Bosch because of the sheer volume in Asian markets. They will produce whatever motor their customers request for.
For example, Juiced has 650W Bafang motor on their CCS and 750W motor on their CCX.

Ravi, aren't they using the same motor but a different controller? I believe they upped it from 20 to 25 amps.

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

Ravi, aren't they using the same motor but a different controlled? I believe they upped it from 20 to 25 amps.

This is possible for sure.
I know first hand that the motor used in their original ODK is different from CC platform and even within CC platform, the CC air, CCS had two different windings and power ratings.
Changing the controller is useful to eek out more out of an existing motor but if pushed beyond a limit, it will fry the windings within the armature.
So, large number of thicker copper windings will certainly help carry more current and hence produce more power.

 

[spmckinnon]

Well guys, it looks like we finally have a plug and play controller upgrade for the Radorover (2017-2018)

I bought my Radrover in Canada, so my controller is throttling the motor to 500W (Canadian laws), I tried to a US controller from Rad but obviously they said no. SO boltons upgrade should be perfect for me! Not only does it free my motor up to run at 750W but I also should get a slight boost over the stock US 750W controller. Super excited. Ordered and once I get it installed I'll report back my findings.
Color LCD option as well!

Check out Boltons video:

 

[Ken M]

Lawyers and law makers typically have no clue about technology ... especially when it comes to motor wattage ratings which in isolation is essentially meaningless. The drive system in total (battery, controller, and motor) is what establishes the actual electrical power. I could rate a 1000W motor as 1W and vice versa. I could run a motor at room temperature for hours that may overheat with the same drive parameters that would overheat at 100 degrees F. What matters is the complete drive system and we must always remember that geared motors will almost always be more torque at lower speeds.

 

[erider_61]

Lawyers and law makers typically have no clue about technology ... especially when it comes to motor wattage ratings which in isolation is essentially meaningless.

This is why both prosecution and defense lawyers will use "Expert Witnesses" in court. They pay big money to have their expert say whatever backs up their side of the case.

 

[JTK77]

This is the motor ID on my 2018 Rad Rover. I ocassionally read where people say their ebikes rips up hills. I can not throttle only my Rover on a 10% grade or more ( I weigh 183 ). It will do 23 MPH on a flat paved road (no wind) with throttle only.

The motor casing in that picture has winding marking of (10). Smaller number are faster winded. As the "True 750" motor also has bigger magnet and more copper, the torque is higher. The stator (guts) can be changed between casings.