Experienced biker but new to e-bikes

[Sparky731]

Sparky731,

Thanks, 6500 miles on your 'clock' speaks volumes. I agree with you on the rear carrier and front suspension on your 7s. On my XM700 I replaced the stock front fork
'springy thing' that came on the bike with a Rock Shox Recon Silver and was extremely pleased.... The upgraded 625w RIB you did is very interesting.
I like that a lot. This may be a small 7s complaint, but I don't like the 'constant' on head and tail light with no option to flash. I really prefer and use
the flash option on my other standalone lights.... I think it's time to take a 7s test ride : )

To be fair to other Posters I guess I should have posted my question/comments on the Trek Forum, but perhaps someone might be considering a Trek Allant 7s ?

John

Your LBS can modify your light on/off control, but no flashing rear light. I carry an extra strap-on flashing rear light for highway rides. Other adds: I took the suspension seat post from my Verve for the Allant. Also changed to tubeless tires, even though the original Schwalbe G Ones had virtually no wear after 3,300 miles. Plus a few other mods over the miles. Coming up on 2 yrs this summer. Never a dull ride. Class 3 or bust! FYI, I am 71 yrs old.

 

[rtp]

Hello everyone. This site is amazing, a bit overwhelming also. And apologies for questions that have been asked and answered. I’m a recreational biker, and at 68, I’m looking at e-bikes for fun and longer rides than I usually do (20-30 miles around the lake and river trails in Minneapolis/St. Paul, as well as rail trails out of town). Some hills, but we’re relatively flat here, and I’m almost always on paved trails or streets. We have lots of good LBS, and I’ve been looking mainly at some Treks and Gazelles. I don’t think I need a class 3, longer range is more appealing to me, and comfort for longer rides.

I’ve been looking at the Gazelle Utimate C8, and the Medeo T10. Also, the Trek Verve +3 and the Allant +7. I have yet to check out Specialized e-bikes. We can’t do test rides for another month or so until our snow melts, but I’ve been reading and visiting shops. The belt drive and in-gear hub on the C8 is intriguing, but the Medeo weighs less and has more torque in the motor. The Verve +3 is appealing, I like the step-through for ease of getting off such a heavy bike. Lots of different variables, and until I test ride test the bikes, it’s hard to narrow it down. Any thoughts or comments would be greatly appreciated!

My wife has a Gazelle Medeo T10 and we're quite happy with it overall. I disagree with Stefan's #s for range, as we have done 30 mile rides and still been at 50% on hers, although you should be aware the whole 'battery measurement' as well as range is kind of a mixed bag, meaning measurements aren't exact (you can look up modern lithium battery discharge curves to get a good feel as to the why - they are much closer to an 'on/off' charge vs e.g. a linear sloped discharge), and range is VERY dependent on the assistance level selected as well as the terrain (e.g. riding up uphill on a long slope will consume much more power than downhill or level ground).

You should also consider realistically where/how you will be riding. 'around lake and river trails and rail trails out of town' could be anything from nicely paved to more rough/aggressive rocky, rooty trails, and that will make a big difference in no suspension, front fork only, or maybe a full suspension bike.

My wife's Gazelle/T10 does well for road, paved and hard-packed trails but is quickly out of it's element for her (athletic but no type of off-road experience on any vehicle/bike/...) once things get bumpy, rooty, or steep off pavement. This isn't too surprising as it's geo and design is much more commuter/road bike, and while I can manhandle it a bit, it's not exactly good for even smaller jumps and the like. Yes, full suspension will reduce some amount of efficiency and range when you don't need it, i.e. in pure (flat, smooth) road riding, but it's worth it's weight in gold when even some roads become full of potholes or have some debris on them, IMO. You need to decide on the tradeoffs that work best for you.

If you're certain you'll never take off-road serious or go off of hard-packed casual off-road, something like the Ultimate or other front-fork only bike is probably just fine. Also consider if you want or NEED attachments, e.g. water bottle, or pannier, etc., as some bikes have very different options, with for example, carbon fiber full suspension bikes being the most difficult to attach any type of rack or pannier to. May or may not matter - for YOUR usage. If course, handling of bikes, and ebikes is also impacted when adding additional racks and loads to them (especially unsprung weight, weight not being handled or run through forks or shock absorber), so again YMMV depending on the need.

Another option could be one of the 'lower powered but lighter' ebikes but these get speedy quickly. They are more human powered, with lower assistance levels, but if you're doing human-powered 20-30mile rides right now, it may be another option to look into. Levo SL and Orbea Rise come to mind but there are others now, including one from Trek although I don't recall their models, and most if not all of them are full suspension bikes AFAIK.

Trek, Specialized and Gazelle all make solid ebikes and I wouldn't 'avoid' one over the other or 'always' select one brand over the other, more about working out the features you want/need for the majority of your riding and then sort who makes a model that best/better fits you and within the $ you're willing to pay.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I disagree with Stefan's #s for range, as we have done 30 mile rides and still been at 50% on hers

You refer to a 65 Nm Class 1 Bosch motor. Did you ride it in Turbo mode for the range estimate?

I was specifically referring to Vado 4.0 (Class 3) based on my own experience with a Vado of a similar motor and capable to reach 28 mph:

• Vado 4.0 (2023) has a bigger battery
• The OP is much heavier than I am
• I'm riding on the flat, and he has numerous hills on his commute

There are also many other factors to affect the range, so I gave a realistic estimate.
Once, I made a ride on the flat (light wind, a warm day) with relatively new 604 Wh battery in the Turbo mode on a 28 mph Vado. The range was 27 miles. The new Vado 4.0 has a 710 Wh battery but look to the factors as above.

@Paul3085: There is yet another reason not to ride in Turbo mode. During a longer ride in full power, the motor and the battery get very warm. Under unfavourable set of circumstances, there is a chance to overheat the system, which will probably effect in switching the system off until the things cool down. Just saying.

 

[Sefutau2020]

You refer to a 65 Nm Class 1 Bosch motor. Did you ride it in Turbo mode for the range estimate?

I was specifically referring to Vado 4.0 (Class 3) based on my own experience with a Vado of a similar motor and capable to reach 28 mph:

• Vado 4.0 (2023) has a bigger battery
• The OP is much heavier than I am
• I'm riding on the flat, and he has numerous hills on his commute

There are also many other factors to affect the range, so I gave a realistic estimate.
Once, I made a ride on the flat (light wind, a warm day) with relatively new 604 Wh battery in the Turbo mode on a 28 mph Vado. The range was 27 miles. The new Vado 4.0 has a 710 Wh battery but look to the factors as above.

@Paul3085: There is yet another reason not to ride in Turbo mode. During a longer ride in full power, the motor and the battery get very warm. Under unfavourable set of circumstances, there is a chance to overheat the system, which will probably effect in switching the system off until the things cool down. Just saying.

Nice. As you know, I have the Vado 4 with the 710w battery, and I can tell you in optimum conditions, 80 degrees, no wind, mostly flat, but some hills....I have gotten close to 40 miles in all Turbo. I am also north of 250 lbs. I routinely on the weekends in the spring and summer, ride 60 or 50 miles back to back, riding in mostly ECO mode with some Sport sprinkled in...and arrive home with between 27% and 32% battery left. Hope that helps.....

 

[Paul3085]

My wife has a Gazelle Medeo T10 and we're quite happy with it overall. I disagree with Stefan's #s for range, as we have done 30 mile rides and still been at 50% on hers, although you should be aware the whole 'battery measurement' as well as range is kind of a mixed bag, meaning measurements aren't exact (you can look up modern lithium battery discharge curves to get a good feel as to the why - they are much closer to an 'on/off' charge vs e.g. a linear sloped discharge), and range is VERY dependent on the assistance level selected as well as the terrain (e.g. riding up uphill on a long slope will consume much more power than downhill or level ground).

You should also consider realistically where/how you will be riding. 'around lake and river trails and rail trails out of town' could be anything from nicely paved to more rough/aggressive rocky, rooty trails, and that will make a big difference in no suspension, front fork only, or maybe a full suspension bike.

My wife's Gazelle/T10 does well for road, paved and hard-packed trails but is quickly out of it's element for her (athletic but no type of off-road experience on any vehicle/bike/...) once things get bumpy, rooty, or steep off pavement. This isn't too surprising as it's geo and design is much more commuter/road bike, and while I can manhandle it a bit, it's not exactly good for even smaller jumps and the like. Yes, full suspension will reduce some amount of efficiency and range when you don't need it, i.e. in pure (flat, smooth) road riding, but it's worth it's weight in gold when even some roads become full of potholes or have some debris on them, IMO. You need to decide on the tradeoffs that work best for you.

If you're certain you'll never take off-road serious or go off of hard-packed casual off-road, something like the Ultimate or other front-fork only bike is probably just fine. Also consider if you want or NEED attachments, e.g. water bottle, or pannier, etc., as some bikes have very different options, with for example, carbon fiber full suspension bikes being the most difficult to attach any type of rack or pannier to. May or may not matter - for YOUR usage. If course, handling of bikes, and ebikes is also impacted when adding additional racks and loads to them (especially unsprung weight, weight not being handled or run through forks or shock absorber), so again YMMV depending on the need.

Another option could be one of the 'lower powered but lighter' ebikes but these get speedy quickly. They are more human powered, with lower assistance levels, but if you're doing human-powered 20-30mile rides right now, it may be another option to look into. Levo SL and Orbea Rise come to mind but there are others now, including one from Trek although I don't recall their models, and most if not all of them are full suspension bikes AFAIK.

Trek, Specialized and Gazelle all make solid ebikes and I wouldn't 'avoid' one over the other or 'always' select one brand over the other, more about working out the features you want/need for the majority of your riding and then sort who makes a model that best/better fits you and within the $ you're willing to pay.

Having ridden only my road bike, it’s hard to get my mind around some of the tire widths on these e-bikes I’ve been looking at. In theory I think I’d enjoy riding on hard packed trails with the more robust and wider tires. Also, having originally said that I don’t think I need a class 3 bike, now I’m intrigued by the possibility of riding beyond 20 mph. So I’ve been looking at the Allant +7S, and the Medeo T10+. Also the Vado 4.0.

 

[Sparky731]

Having ridden only my road bike, it’s hard to get my mind around some of the tire widths on these e-bikes I’ve been looking at. In theory I think I’d enjoy riding on hard packed trails with the more robust and wider tires. Also, having originally said that I don’t think I need a class 3 bike, now I’m intrigued by the possibility of riding beyond 20 mph. So I’ve been looking at the Allant +7S, and the Medeo T10+. Also the Vado 4.0.

You can drive your car near the 55mph speed limit (class 1) but there are also times you may like to go faster on the freeways (class 3).

 

[rtp]

You refer to a 65 Nm Class 1 Bosch motor. Did you ride it in Turbo mode for the range estimate?

I was specifically referring to Vado 4.0 (Class 3) based on my own experience with a Vado of a similar motor and capable to reach 28 mph:

• Vado 4.0 (2023) has a bigger battery
• The OP is much heavier than I am
• I'm riding on the flat, and he has numerous hills on his commute

There are also many other factors to affect the range, so I gave a realistic estimate.
Once, I made a ride on the flat (light wind, a warm day) with relatively new 604 Wh battery in the Turbo mode on a 28 mph Vado. The range was 27 miles. The new Vado 4.0 has a 710 Wh battery but look to the factors as above.

@Paul3085: There is yet another reason not to ride in Turbo mode. During a longer ride in full power, the motor and the battery get very warm. Under unfavourable set of circumstances, there is a chance to overheat the system, which will probably effect in switching the system off until the things cool down. Just saying.

As mentioned, most of us know just how variable ebike ranges are (although the OP probably doesn’t - yet ).
No, she rarely rides in Turbo mode. OP - just another example of things that can sometimes drastically change ebike range (assistance level).

 

[Sparky731]

As mentioned, most of us know just how variable ebike ranges are (although the OP probably doesn’t - yet ).
No, she rarely rides in Turbo mode. OP - just another example of things that can sometimes drastically change ebike range (assistance level).

I added the Bosch 500w Range Extender as I could out-ride my 500w RIB. I also swapped the 500 RIB for the 625w RIB for a total of 1,125w. Now 65 miles of Turbo is doable.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Now 65 miles of Turbo is doable.

Unless you overheat the motor during the ride

 

[Sparky731]

Unless you overheat the motor during the ride

Hmmm… never considered the possibility of the motor overheating. Most of my splits average ~20mph so the motor is really sucking electrons. It would make sense that the high current draw will heat the motor. Maybe the heat will transfer down the crank arms and eventually I can have heated pedals to keep my feet warm!

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

Having ridden only my road bike, it’s hard to get my mind around some of the tire widths on these e-bikes I’ve been looking at. In theory I think I’d enjoy riding on hard packed trails with the more robust and wider tires.

Packed trails are tons of fun — highly recommended! Question is, how wide is wide enough, how much puncture protection, and how much rolling resistance on pavement?

One data point: These hybrid 2.3" Specialized Crossroads Armadillos are plenty wide and knobby for hard-pack and even loose-on-hard when the loose stuff isn't too deep. Puncture protection is said to be excellent. And thanks to the absence of center knobs, they roll pretty easily on pavement, too.

These tires are even good on mixed sand+gravel beaches, but not in the deeper pockets of loose sand.

Overall, a good compromise for my mixed riding — which falls far short of technical single-track. However, narrower gravel-style tires would also work on groomed hard-pack.

 

[TrevorB]

Unless you overheat the motor during the ride

Would need to be very large hill with sustained effort by rider to overheat motor. Lower rider input less output from motor.
On flat motor won't be putting out max power.

I've never overheated Bosch motor or battery and ride in some very hilly country.

With bosch batteries the first 2 bars are about 50%. The 5 bars definitely aren't linear.

 

[rtp]

Having ridden only my road bike, it’s hard to get my mind around some of the tire widths on these e-bikes I’ve been looking at. In theory I think I’d enjoy riding on hard packed trails with the more robust and wider tires. Also, having originally said that I don’t think I need a class 3 bike, now I’m intrigued by the possibility of riding beyond 20 mph. So I’ve been looking at the Allant +7S, and the Medeo T10+. Also the Vado 4.0.

This one can be a can of worms to some extent - tire compound(s), tread pattern, width, tire pressure, all have an effect, but also even the definition of 'hard-packed trails' changes from one person or location to another.
Some hard-packed trails are solid enough that even after downpours it's more or less easily passable on 'road tires,' but add a bit of clay, mud or standing water and it's a different story quickly. Reducing tire pressure a bit will improve things, but only to a point.
Went through literally decades of this on my various dual-spot motorcycles, and it's all about finding the right compromise. Knobby tires will hum and squirm on the street but grip much better off-road, especially once things get to not-so-hard-packed and loose, wet. etc. Wider rims/tires also tend to help vs narrower road-only setups in those cases.

Schwalbe has a set of values they give for rolling resistance (lower is generally faster for same effort on flat, perfect road, higher is usually gripper, wider, or more traction overall), road grip, off-road grip and durability... but as usual, anything like this is manufacturer specific, and you won't currently find anything claiming to be 'best' across all 4 categories. Example can be seen on the Johnny Watts: https://www.schwalbetires.com/Johnny-Watts-365-11159377

Personally, I'm happy with the JWs as an 'all arounder' which I have on my personally built i35 wheelset, and on i40 rims previously, and am running in 27.5x2.8" width...which wouldn't fit width-wise on my wife's Medeo which still has the original 'Big Apple' ( https://www.schwalbetires.com/Big-Apple-11100426.01 ).
If you try to compare the two, the JW is clearly a 'dual-sport' type of tire, leaning a bit more towards the off-road side of things, while the Big Apple is more or less a road tire that can handle some small amount of light trail use, and of course on the Medeo os probably at least a half inch narrower. When it's time for tires on her bike, I'll probably look for something 'moving the needle towards the right' meaning a bit more trail-worthy, but not as knobby as the JWs. If you look at the JW, you can tell what makes it 'not dedicated off-road' - the knobs aren't super-deep, but also the center knobs almost form a solid line of rubber - this is what keeps them quiet(-ish, -er) on the road compared to full off-road focused knobbies, while the tread depth on the Big Apple is even much shallower, and the center treat is almost completely solid, and wider.

I'll probably look at something like the Marathon Plus for my wife's Medeo's next tire. You can see the difference in tire tread just glancing at Schwalbe's 'SUV e-bike tires' here: https://www.schwalbetires.com/e-bike-tires/suv-e-bike-tires/
I think I take some minor issue with their 'SUV' nomenclature, as my carbon fiber X2 certainly isn't a big heavy pig - for an e-bike, but it's as good a grouping as any, as by definition any 'multi-use' type of tire (or vehicle) isn't likely to be the best at either one, but can with some patience and proper setup, certainly be 'pretty good' for more than one purpose (e.g. on-road/commuting vs some levels of off-road..).

 

[Tbill]

I would get a bike that is inexpensive but covers your needs. You are not suddenly going to become an Olympic athlete at your age.
Get one with a decent warranty and a brand name battery and make sure you can get it serviced if necessary.
Some people want to spend $4,000.00 on a bike. I would prefer to spend $1,000.00.
It really depends on your personality, I guess. Do you like to have the best of everything or would you prefer to get a deal?

 

[Paul3085]

Probably somewhere in between those. I want something that’s good quality and dependable, and, like you say, is covered by a good warranty, and can be serviced easily. I’d like to get a good deal of course, but I don’t think spending $1000 will get me all of that.

 

[JenniferA]

You should look at a Specialized Turbo Vado SL. They just went on sale on the Specialized website. Since you’re already a cyclist you may find that the SL bikes have enough power while being much lighter than the typical ebikes. Yes, they are class 3 but you don’t have to ride fast if you don’t want to. I’m 66 riding a Specialized Creo (gravel version) and I love it. It is definitely a good quality bike with a good warranty and local service. I’m familiar with the lake and river trails in the Twin Cities and I think it would be a great choice for a cyclist looking to go electric - and for now it’s a very good deal also.

 

[Paul3085]

I know it’s been a while, but I wanted post an update on my Ebike search. I ended up getting a Specialized Vado 4.0, the step-through model. It was on backorder for a good month or so, but I finally got it just over two weeks ago. It’s been a really fun new toy. I was really excited to get it, and with some so-so cold days plus some pretty nice weather (it’s finally spring up here!), I’ve put close to 300 miles on it. A couple of tweaks: I’ve put on new more swept back handlebars to mitigate some wrist and neck discomfort, and I’m looking into some different grips, possibly Ergon. And I’m still not sure what saddle to use, the stock saddle is pretty uncomfortable. With the new handlebars I’m a bit more upright than on the original handlebars, so something cushier; the Selle Royal Look In, or SQLabs has some interesting possibilities.

All in all, it’s been great. It’s taking some time to get used to how fast this thing is, and to get over feeling conspicuous around most other bikers who don’t have ebikes. Thanks to everyone who helped with your comments!

 

[m@Robertson]

I’ve put on new more swept back handlebars to mitigate some wrist and neck discomfort, and I’m looking into some different grips, possibly Ergon.

I have rolled-my-own grips for some time. I went to Jones bars on most of my bikes to alleviate some wrist pain that originated from getting hit by a car (or more accurately the landing after the hit), and padded grips went with it. I did Wolf Tooth Fat Paw silicone grips. they have a fatter than fat version I used to give my hands (and by extension wrists) as much cushion as possible. They worked, but on longer rides the slowly increasing pain level got the better of me.

I finally decided to spring the bucks on a set of Ergons for a bike I built early this year and WOW. I immediately bought another set for my other daily driver. The improvement in wrist comfort is enormous. If you have pullback bars, be advised there is a slightly different version for those. I didn't know that on my first set so I have been able to test both and the pullback version are in fact a little better on Jones bars, which have a 45-degree sweep.

 

[Paul3085]

Thanks for your comment. Do you happen to remember which version of the Ergon grips are for the pullback handlebars you got?

 

[m@Robertson]

Yes they were the GC1's

https://amzn.to/3M4AcAW

I have the standard-issue GP1's on another bike with swept bars (Ergotec Space Bar) and they are not bad per se... the GC1's are just a bit better.