Evelo Omega vs Zen Photon Pro for next E Bike

[jim1274]

Recognize that I am nit a ZEN expert, but I think th main difference is based on leg or inseam length. The seat and handlebar locations are tune able. I have bought and built maybe 30 bikes over the years and it seems thatbevery one of them needed tweaking. I am already planning on changing the ZEN when I get it because I tend to measure my rides in hours and 10s of miles and at my age comfort is king.

I finally found a bike that felt just right on a recent test ride, quickly comparing the geometry to the Zen Photon when I got home. The reach was less than a half inch difference, but the handlebars seemed to be higher relative to the seat height compared to all the other bikes I test rode. I noticed when comparing the head tube length, the bike that fit was over 3” longer, 8 7/8” vs Photon’s 5.5”. If the head tube angle was the same on both, would that mean an extra 3” of handlebar height? The other bike had no head tube angle spec, unfortunately.

If the bike thst seemed to fit just right had not been a derailleur drivetrain, I’d have bought it on the spot. I’ll compromise on some things, but not on an internally geared hub with belt drive.

This is the bike that seemed to fit right. It seems a bit overpriced for the spec level, but would overlook that for a good fit if not for the derailleur part.

Serfas® - eDASH 500W E-Bike - Serfas

Serfas® Dart 500W - Step Over and Step Through Frame - 500W Electric Motor - Samsung® Battery - 30 Mile Range - Class 3 E-Bike

www.serfas.com

 

[GizmoEV]

You could always replace the handlebar stem to get the reach you want.

 

[Cybersnow]

I did buy the Zen Photon Ultra and found the handlebar to be a little too high for me. The stem was adjustable but was bit too long and lowering it meant moving the handlebar too far forward. I bought a new stem with a shorter adjustable shaft and will try that. I like leaning forward a bit, more lie a mountain bike. When I sit up straight it feels a bit awkward since a lot if my riding is on mountain dirt roads and trails.

 

[jim1274]

You could always replace the handlebar stem to get the reach you want.

The reach on the good fitting Serfa with the 15 degree back sweep handlebar is almost identical to the Photon reach, making me think the Photon 38 degree sweep is not going to work at all.

 

[jim1274]

I did buy the Zen Photon Ultra and found the handlebar to be a little too high for me. The stem was adjustable but was bit too long and lowering it meant moving the handlebar too far forward. I bought a new stem with a shorter adjustable shaft and will try that. I like leaning forward a bit, more lie a mountain bike. When I sit up straight it feels a bit awkward since a lot if my riding is on mountain dirt roads and trails.

That’s interesting as my concern is that the Photon bar may be too low based on my comparison to the Serfa that seemed to fit just right. The Serfa that fit so well has a 3” plus longer head tube than the Photon, but maybe I’m not understanding that spec and it does not actually mean the handlebar is 3” higher on the Serfa. When I rode the Serfa it felt right and instantly noticed there was no pressure on my wrists, a problem on some other bikes I tried.

 

[scrambler]

The higher the handlebar, the more upright position, the less pressure on the wrists, the more pressure on the back/spine...
Each has to pick his poison

 

[Cybersnow]

I don’t like sitting straight up for a number of reasons. It feels a little awkward making tight turns and my sit bones get sore pretty quickly. I typically prefer my handlebars 5-6 inches above my saddle height. This gives a slight leaning forward effect and hand and wrist fatigue are mitigated by better grips. I took the Photon out for its maiden ride yesterday and was impressed. There is a very steep hill leading up to our neighborhood that typically puts riders (on normal bikes) into their granny gears or has them walking. Yesterday I took the Photon up that hill with the Rohloff in 11th gear (which is the normal cruise gear) and the bike took the hill (with a little leg effort) at about 10-14 mph.

 

[jim1274]

The higher the handlebar, the more upright position, the less pressure on the wrists, the more pressure on the back/spine...
Each has to pick his poison

Good point—finding the sweet spot is trickier than expected. The last two bikes I had put so much pressure on my wrists that my hands went completely numb by the 30 minute mark. Too straight upright is not really comfortable, some middle ground with a little lean but that takes pressure off the wrists seemed best to me. When I rode that Serfa, it felt just right, but there was still some lean forward. The hand grip position seemed just right and noticeable instantly after just riding a short distance.

My bike shop guy is experimenting right now with a non-electric to try and replicate that Serfa geometry with a combination of riser handlebars and adjustable stems on a bike that had exact build spec I wanted but too much forward lean and wrist pressure. (https://spotbikes.com/products/acme-bike)

It was the closest to an upright geometry one that I could find with belt drive and high spec internal geared hub (and larger frame size I needed)

 

[Cybersnow]

interesting, how tall are you.? I found the Photon made me sit up straighter than I wanted. I changed the stem and after a 20 mile ride today am going to change the handle bars. If you have sitbone or numbness issues, look into a bi saddle.

 

[jim1274]

interesting, how tall are you.? I found the Photon made me sit up straighter than I wanted. I changed the stem and after a 20 mile ride today am going to change the handle bars. If you have sitbone or numbness issues, look into a bi saddle.

I’m 6-3 with a 35” inseam (and 35” sleeve length for shirts if relevant).

Is the Photon making you more upright than you desire due to the sharp 38 degree back sweep on the bars maybe? The bike that seemed just right had the same reach as the Photon by used a 15 degree back sweep bar. I’m fully expecting to need a different handlebar when my Photon arrives. They use a 15 degree on the Samurai model and the Photon “Pure” appears to use a bar with back sweep somewhere between the two, but have so far been unable to find the specs on that Pure version bar. Anyone know?

It would seem that, generally speaking, the more back sweep on the bar, the more upright you would be from reducing the distance to reach the bars vs less bar sweep?

 

[jim1274]

I don’t like sitting straight up for a number of reasons. It feels a little awkward making tight turns and my sit bones get sore pretty quickly. I typically prefer my handlebars 5-6 inches above my saddle height. This gives a slight leaning forward effect and hand and wrist fatigue are mitigated by better grips. I took the Photon out for its maiden ride yesterday and was impressed. There is a very steep hill leading up to our neighborhood that typically puts riders (on normal bikes) into their granny gears or has them walking. Yesterday I took the Photon up that hill with the Rohloff in 11th gear (which is the normal cruise gear) and the bike took the hill (with a little leg effort) at about 10-14 mph.

I was thinking about your “handlebars 5-6 inches above my saddle height” comment. Wish I had measured those distances on that Serfa that felt right, but didn’t think of it at the time. I did take a photo of it at the dealer after test riding, and looks like the distance difference is in that 5-6 ballpark:

 

[Hardly Davidson]

interesting, how tall are you.? I found the Photon made me sit up straighter than I wanted. I changed the stem and after a 20 mile ride today am going to change the handle bars. If you have sitbone or numbness issues, look into a bi saddle.

A little off topic but quick question. Does the throttle on the Ultra work from 0 kmh? Thnx

 

[Cybersnow]

Went to a flat mountain bar and a bontrager 185 saddle, fixed the sit up problem! Yes the throttle works from zero Km. I use the throttle when I have to restart going up hill or to quickly accelerate across a road. Haven‘t tried riding with just the throttle.

 

[jim1274]

I was thinking about your “handlebars 5-6 inches above my saddle height” comment. Wish I had measured those distances on that Serfa that felt right, but didn’t think of it at the time. I did take a photo of it at the dealer after test riding, and looks like the distance difference is in that 5-6 ballpark:

I just measured my Photon and right at about 6” difference with no adjustments. The fit right out of the gate is just about perfect for me.

 

[Cybersnow]

While the roads are typically pretty straight but hilly, the bike trails and fire roads we ride on might be called beginner to intermediate for a mountain bike. I prefer to be leaning forward a bit, not super aggressive but it allows me to take on tight curves a lot easier. Did you get the more mountain bike tires?

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

Yes the throttle works from zero Km. I use the throttle when I have to restart going up hill or to quickly accelerate across a road. Haven‘t tried riding with just the throttle.

As you're finding out, a good throttle comes in handy as a thumb-activated boost in pedal assist in lots of different situations. These usually involve just a second or two of full or partial throttle on top of pedaling.

One is maintaining speed, cadence, and exertion level over brief obstacles like steep driveways or roots or rocks on trails. The throttle makes these all but disappear.

On hub-drives only, you can also use a blip of throttle to unload the chain for steep uphill downshifts. Less ground speed and cadence lost that way.

The only time I use sustained throttle is up really steep hills — say, 12% or more. Then I'm effectively pedaling on top of the throttle. This keeps my hub motor from getting bogged down at low wheel speed, but it might be useful on mid-drives as well.

(I know that hub-drives have a reputation for overheating on long, steep hills, but mine seldom gets more than warm to the touch — at least partly because I'm pedaling with a good bit of effort the whole time.)

 

[Cybersnow]

I really haven’t tried using the throttle while pedaling on the photon yet. On the Bayfang kits they changed the controller a couple of years ago so you could either pedal or throttle but not both at the same time. Consequently I don’t use it much. Heck, I haven’t even tested my max speed on throttle alone.