Espin Sport vs. Ride1Up 700 vs. Aventon Level help me choose

[Cstefan]

I’m getting ready to pull the trigger and place an order. Still can’t decide which brand/model to get though. The top candidates are:

Espin Sport
Ride1Up 700
Aventon Level

Also on the list are:
Ariel Rider Rideal
Charge City
RadPower RadRunner Plus

Other Aventon and Ride1UP models are on the table too, especially the Ride1Up LMT’D

 

[AHicks]

Are you asking us to vote for the bike we own like the best for our purposes, or to help you make a buying decision? If it's the latter, and you want to collect anything that you might find useful, a little (lot?) more info about you and the area you plan on riding in (topography - on road, off road, riding for pleasure exercise commuting, etc.) would be a big help.

 

[Cstefan]

Are you asking us to vote for the bike we own like the best for our purposes, or to help you make a buying decision? If it's the latter, and you want to collect anything that you might find useful, a little (lot?) more info about you and the area you plan on riding in (topography - on road, off road, riding for pleasure exercise commuting, etc.) would be a big help.

My previous post is here:

Thread 'Looking for under $2000 city ebike for 6 ft tall 325 lb male in Seattle WA.'
https://electricbikereview.com/foru...or-6-ft-tall-325-lb-male-in-seattle-wa.44717/

Any direct experience with the brands/models above would be especially helpful.

 

[AHicks]

This is a popular forum with a lot of contributors. You can't assume we remember that you've posted previously as well as what the contents of that post(s) were. Not until you've been posting for a few months and people get to know you a little better. -Al

If I were to vote for a bike to be ridden "as-is" I would likely go with the R1U 700 based on what I've read about their controller.

I've purchased 3 Espin Sport and Flow bikes (same bike step over vs. step through) in the last year, but as an experienced e-biker/big DIY'er, it was with the idea they have solid bones and could be modified/changed relatively easily to meet our needs. That plan has worked out well, but the list of mods I personally felt necessary, or even just nice is extensive - and they were for OUR needs, based on how they would be ridden and where.

I'm completely spoiled by how nice a controller can be, and totally turned off by some of the stuff the bike manf's try to get away with. It's like having the latest and greatest computer available, and your only way to speak with/control it is through a 3 dollar keyboard. The user interface is a huge deal. The bike manf's are still figuring that out. For instance, on the '21 Espins, the bike continues on under power for 10' after you stop pedaling. That's just plain unacceptable here. When Espin was approached about the issue, I was told to "just tap the brakes". Clearly, as can be seen by the number of bikes they are selling, that's not that big a deal to others. As the wife and I have had several other bikes previously, we know better! That issue can be addressed with an aftermarket KT controller and a little DIY ingenuity that I was willing to contribute to make the bike right. By "right" I mean that after the conversion the "user interface" is on par with way more expensive bikes, if not the best available.

Enough rambling. My point is the more insight supplied with a "which bike" request will often net you suggestions based on more experience.

 

[Cstefan]

This is a popular forum with a lot of contributors. You can't assume we remember that you've posted previously as well as what the contents of that post(s) were. Not until you've been posting for a few months and people get to know you a little better. -Al

If I were to vote for a bike to be ridden "as-is" I would likely go with the R1U 700 based on what I've read about their controller.

I've purchased 3 Espin Sport and Flow bikes (same bike step over vs. step through) in the last year, but as an experienced e-biker/big DIY'er, it was with the idea they have solid bones and could be modified/changed relatively easily to meet our needs. That plan has worked out well, but the list of mods I personally felt necessary, or even just nice is extensive - and they were for OUR needs, based on how they would be ridden and where.

I'm completely spoiled by how nice a controller can be, and totally turned off by some of the stuff the bike manf's try to get away with. It's like having the latest and greatest computer available, and your only way to speak with/control it is through a 3 dollar keyboard. The user interface is a huge deal. The bike manf's are still figuring that out. For instance, on the '21 Espins, the bike continues on under power for 10' after you stop pedaling. That's just plain unacceptable here. When Espin was approached about the issue, I was told to "just tap the brakes". Clearly, as can be seen by the number of bikes they are selling, that's not that big a deal to others. As the wife and I have had several other bikes previously, we know better! That issue can be addressed with an aftermarket KT controller and a little DIY ingenuity that I was willing to contribute to make the bike right. By "right" I mean that after the conversion the "user interface" is on par with way more expensive bikes, if not the best available.

Enough rambling. My point is the more insight supplied with a "which bike" request will often net you suggestions based on more experience.

So I take it the stock Espin controller doesn’t offer the flexibility out of the box the R1U 700 does? What is the cost/work involved in adding an aftermarket controller?

From a “solid bones” perspective what favors the Espin over the R1U 700?

What mods do you make (other than controller) to the Espin bikes?

I’m already thinking no matter which bike I buy I’ll likely end up swapping out the handlebars and possibly the shifter.

BTW thanks for your reply it does offer guidance on which way to go.

 

[GenXrider]

I’m already thinking no matter which bike I buy I’ll likely end up swapping out the handlebars and possibly the shifter.

I like the shifter on my 700 XR. Thumb and finger trigger shifting works just like my Trek hybrid that I've been riding for over a decade, and it has the indicator to show what gear you are in. I've known people to change the shifter included on the Ride1Up Core-5, but not on the 700. The only mod I plan to do regarding my handlebars is to add bar ends and different grips. I did add a bar extender for mounting things like lights to, just as I had done with my Trek.

After several months of riding, I recently changed my PAS from 0-9 to 0-7 and increased the power percentages in some of the lower levels to make the difference more noticeable from one level to the next and reduce the amount of PAS toggling I need to do. The lowest level still gives me under 50 watts assist based on the real time power meter on the LCD. I never want the assist to be too strong because I'm out for the exercise while riding at a moderate speed.

 

[AHicks]

Espin chosen over the R1U and some others for it's low cost. Good bones = wheel size, motor, battery (in this case the fact it's concealed and inserted from the top, and it's about the right size I was looking for). KT controller and display are less than 100. but there will be some wire splicing necessary. It's NOT plug and play. For somebody used to/OK with DIY working on cars/low voltage wiring it shouldn't be too difficult. I did change the handlebars and riser for a sedate, upright, easy to ride, posture that's easy on my wrists. Stock shifter that didn't tell me what gear I was in worked good, but was a surprise. That was replaced with a shifter that did show me what gear I was in, along with a matching derailleur. Seat replaced, suspension post installed, stock tires were replaced with my favorite 27.5 x 2.4" Schwalbe Super Moto-X for their ride and minimal rolling resistance. Maybe some other stuff as well. Point being, I've been riding e-bikes for a while, and I'm spoiled rotten when it comes to some of this. I'm an accomplished DIY'er as I enjoy working with my hands, and I have the time to screw with this kind of stuff. My bikes reflect this....

R1U 700 features an adjustable controller, which is pretty unique in it's price class. If I made up my mind to just deal with whatever I could get, that would be the minimum.

We put a minimum of about 50 miles on our bikes in an "as received" state before anything is changed (other than maybe the seat, changing that is pretty much a given). The Espin controller is adjustable to a certain extent, and had it not been for that extra 10 feet BS, I might have been able to get used to it/live with it. It was unique in that it featured an automatic PAS shifter. It would let you start out in PAS 1, and as you approached the max PAS 1 speed, it would shift to PAS 2, then PAS 3 depending on your speed. Unique feature! Just misguided. They would have been MUCH MUCH further ahead using that energy by getting the motor to shut down right when you stop pedaling....

I like the idea of riding whatever you get for a bit to see what's going on and get used to it for a while. Give it a fair chance! At that point, ANYTHING is fair game! Make the bike YOURS! -Al

 

[Cstefan]

I like the shifter on my 700 XR. Thumb and finger trigger shifting works just like my Trek hybrid that I've been riding for over a decade, and it has the indicator to show what gear you are in. I've known people to change the shifter included on the Ride1Up Core-5, but not on the 700. The only mod I plan to do regarding my handlebars is to add bar ends and different grips. I did add a bar extender for mounting things like lights to, just as I had done with my Trek.

After several months of riding, I recently changed my PAS from 0-9 to 0-7 and increased the power percentages in some of the lower levels to make the difference more noticeable from one level to the next and reduce the amount of PAS toggling I need to do. The lowest level still gives me under 50 watts assist based on the real time power meter on the LCD. I never want the assist to be too strong because I'm out for the exercise while riding at a moderate speed.

I was probably thinking of the shifter on the Espin which lacks the indicator and I believe is push to both up and down shift.

I’m not so sure how much I care about an indicator but have enough experience to know I like push/pull triggers or old school shift levers.

 

[Cstefan]

Espin chosen over the R1U and some others for it's low cost. Good bones = wheel size, motor, battery (in this case the fact it's concealed and inserted from the top, and it's about the right size I was looking for). KT controller and display are less than 100. but there will be some wire splicing necessary. It's NOT plug and play. For somebody used to/OK with DIY working on cars/low voltage wiring it shouldn't be too difficult. I did change the handlebars and riser for a sedate, upright, easy to ride, posture that's easy on my wrists. Stock shifter that didn't tell me what gear I was in worked good, but was a surprise. That was replaced with a shifter that did show me what gear I was in, along with a matching derailleur. Seat replaced, suspension post installed, stock tires were replaced with my favorite 27.5 x 2.4" Schwalbe Super Moto-X for their ride and minimal rolling resistance. Maybe some other stuff as well. Point being, I've been riding e-bikes for a while, and I'm spoiled rotten when it comes to some of this. I'm an accomplished DIY'er as I enjoy working with my hands, and I have the time to screw with this kind of stuff. My bikes reflect this....

R1U 700 features an adjustable controller, which is pretty unique in it's price class. If I made up my mind to just deal with whatever I could get, that would be the minimum.

We put a minimum of about 50 miles on our bikes in an "as received" state before anything is changed (other than maybe the seat, changing that is pretty much a given). The Espin controller is adjustable to a certain extent, and had it not been for that extra 10 feet BS, I might have been able to get used to it/live with it. It was unique in that it featured an automatic PAS shifter. It would let you start out in PAS 1, and as you approached the max PAS 1 speed, it would shift to PAS 2, then PAS 3 depending on your speed. Unique feature! Just misguided. They would have been MUCH MUCH further ahead using that energy by getting the motor to shut down right when you stop pedaling....

I like the idea of riding whatever you get for a bit to see what's going on and get used to it for a while. Give it a fair chance! At that point, ANYTHING is fair game! Make the bike YOURS! -Al

Hmm, based on what I know I’d likely eventually make most of the same modifications to the Espin.

Points in favor of the Espin for me: Price, battery mount, and front rack mount.

Points in favor of the R1U 700 for me: More “ready to go” as delivered, arrives slightly sooner, step through the same price as the step over.

As I said above I expect to swap the handlebar, seat post, and seat regardless of which bike I get. (Though the stock handlebar on the R1U 700 step through may be good enough for what I want)

 

[Taylor57]

I have 2 Espin Sports so am biased but I think if I had to choose between the 3 you are looking at, I would go with the one that offers the superior battery if that can be determined. I like the looks of all 3 as I dont care for the bikes that have the battery "strapped" on to the downtube. The Espin models only come in one size and it appears the Levels offer 3. If price is an issue, Espin probably is going to be the low price point. I have had no problem with either one of my bikes and anytime I have emailed Espin, I have received a response in a timely manner. This is truly a tough call...

 

[Cstefan]

Hmm, the Espin has a slightly smaller battery at 653wh vs 672wh for the E1U 700 and Level.

This is indeed coming down to a tough choice.

 

[GenXrider]

The 700 has some delay for the power to stop when you stop pedaling also - about a second. The LMTD had this delay also, even with the torque sensor version that's currently not available. The delay that annoys me though is when making PAS changes on the display. They don't take effect instantly. If I'm riding in PAS 0 and toggle to PAS 1 or higher, it takes a full 3 seconds before power is applied. I'm used to it now, so I toggle up a little sooner than I otherwise would. And it takes about 2 seconds for power to stop when going back to PAS 0.

Espin Sport is class 2 with top speed 20 mph. It may be allowed/legal where a R1U 700 class 3 is not.

Both have 45T chain rings. The Sport has a 13-32T cassette vs. 11-30T on the 700. So the 700 has a higher gear, Sport has a lower gear. Edit: My 700 actually came with an 11-32T cassette, not the 11-30T advertised.

The Espin has 2.1" wide tires, the 700 has 2.4" wide tires.

The Espin is 55 pounds, 700 is 62 pounds.

The Sport pricing looks good now. But I was playing around with their order page to see if they would charge me tax, and they added a $61 route protection item. You can remove it, but they recommend you add it in case their are problems with your shipment. You can get a $40 discount on a Ride1Up bike by taking the pledge on their website.

The 700 would cost me $306 more today than it cost me at the end of February. They raised the price by $100 two times since then for a total of $200, plus they charge tax for my state now, which is about $106.

 

[AHicks]

I wouldn't let the difference in battery size sway your decision too much myself. I'm getting like 40 miles on average per charge - twice my butt's range. The wife (125lbs, but don't let her know I mentioned it) is getting stupid miles from hers, like 60-70 (I'm 300lbs). Same story with the gearing, not too big a deal - unless you plan on riding at higher speeds frequently, say up in the high teens. The 11t gear slows the cadence to the point you aren't "hamster wheeling". I use 7th and 8th gears only rarely because I'm generally under 15mph. Worst case is you have to replace the 30 dollar 13t cassette with an 11t. Again, not too big a deal.

The 55 lb weight IS noticeable though. I have 2 other bikes I ride frequently. One is older at 65 lbs, the other is a rather portly 70lbs (an Ultra powered fatty with a heavy 19.2a battery). Both are over 1000w bikes. Jumping on the new 500w bike, at 55lbs, seems like a feather weight. The weight difference is noticeable before you even swing your leg over the seat!

The 2.4" tires on the 700 were my favorite Schwalbe Super Moto-X tires. Not sure if they're still using them. If the Espins had come with those, that would have saved me about 80 or 90 bucks per bike (all 3 bikes were switched to the Schwalbes). Clearly a popular tire, because they are sold out everywhere (likely due to Covid).

Have fun with your decision! My thought is that maybe the Espin might be the better project bike, and the 700 the bike to be chosen for riding "as-is" for the most part. -Al

 

[Taylor57]

I wouldn't let the difference in battery size sway your decision too much myself. I'm getting like 40 miles on average per charge - twice my butt's range. The wife (125lbs, but don't let her know I mentioned it) is getting stupid miles from hers, like 60-70 (I'm 300lbs). Same story with the gearing, not too big a deal - unless you plan on riding at higher speeds frequently, say up in the high teens. The 11t gear slows the cadence to the point you aren't "hamster wheeling". I use 7th and 8th gears only rarely because I'm generally under 15mph. Worst case is you have to replace the 30 dollar 13t cassette with an 11t. Again, not too big a deal.

The 55 lb weight IS noticeable though. I have 2 other bikes I ride frequently. One is older at 65 lbs, the other is a rather portly 70lbs (an Ultra powered fatty with a heavy 19.2a battery). Both are over 1000w bikes. Jumping on the new 500w bike, at 55lbs, seems like a feather weight. The weight difference is noticeable before you even swing your leg over the seat!

The 2.4" tires on the 700 were my favorite Schwalbe Super Moto-X tires. Not sure if they're still using them. If the Espins had come with those, that would have saved me about 80 or 90 bucks per bike (all 3 bikes were switched to the Schwalbes). Clearly a popular tire, because they are sold out everywhere (likely due to Covid).

Have fun with your decision! My thought is that maybe the Espin might be the better project bike, and the 700 the bike to be chosen for riding "as-is" for the most part. -Al

I removed my the fenders on my Sport (mainly to secure it in bikerack) and it feels even lighter now. There is no comparison between my Frey CC fully loaded (80 lbs or more) and Sport at 55 max. I can ride Sport with no battery assist very comfortably on flat ground and Hicks is right, I have not been able to outride my battery unless I forgot to charge before riding. I would post your same question on the Aventon and Ride 1 up sections. I havent priced any of them lately, but my guess is they are all probably within a few hundo of each other...

 

[GenXrider]

I edited my previous post on this this matter: On my 700, I hadn't verified it was an 11-30T cassette and have almost never used the largest cog, but it ends up it's a Shimano 11-32T, not the advertised 11-30T. Anyway, probably not a big decision making point but wanted to mention it.

 

[Cstefan]

I ordered a blue Espin Sport Thursday. Ultimately it came down price and things I can easily change on the bike vs things I can’t.

For Espin the price, weight, battery mount, and front rack mount are all deciding factors. Ride1UP charging state sales taxes is what tipped it for me.

I figure I can upgrade the tires, shifter, and even controller if need be. I’m already going to buy a seat, suspension seat post, and eventually metal fenders.

 

[AHicks]

Congrats on having finalized the decision! I was a little hesitant on the (smurf) blue, but since receiving it, have decided I really like it. It's already generated several positive comments.

Fenders on the '21 bikes have been no issue here. No rattles, and they're holding up fine.

If/when you decide to replace the controller, give me a shout. I have some notes that might save you some time.

 

[Cstefan]

The only reason I’m contemplating a fender replacement is to get more tire coverage. Besides I’m a sucker for Honjo fenders.

I’ll keep you in mind if I decide to do a controller swap.

 

[AHicks]

The 27.5x2.4 tires we're using pretty much fill the stock fenders. Looking strait down on them, the fenders easily cover the treaded area of the tire, but if you look close enough, there's some sidewall left exposed. I would NOT attempt to put anything bigger on a '21 Sport for sure!

Looked up the Honjo fenders as I had never heard of them! Nice stuff for sure, but they're pretty proud of them.....

 

[BigNerd]

The advantage Aventon has over the other 2 is if your local bike store sells them.

I have an Espin Sport which has been great but I’m looking at a R1U Core-5 because it’s slightly lighter but I’ll miss the hydraulic brakes.

I’m hoping someone comes out with a lighter ebike with throttle.