Espin Flow pedal assist power levels

[BigNerd]

Interesting that the R1U 500 accelerates gradually... I thought it was power on/power off.

I have seen a setting for ramp up power in some of these displays so maybe the R1U 500 is on/off but the ramp up is gradual?

 

[GenXrider]

Interesting that the R1U 500 accelerates gradually... I thought it was power on/power off.

I have seen a setting for ramp up power in some of these displays so maybe the R1U 500 is on/off but the ramp up is gradual?

I didn't see this before. It's not just on and off. There are many in-between power levels. It doesn't do any ramping of power to speak of like your Espin Sport. For the most recent generations, it's like the current gen 700 in how the PAS system works. So, if I have my PAS level 1 set to 5%, as soon as I rotate the chainring with the pedals, it instantly applies about 32 watts and continues to apply that same 32 watts up until 28 mph. This is a minimal amount of assist power, so most of the acceleration comes from pedaling unless you crank up the wattage significantly higher or hit the throttle. With a decent charge, the throttle will give over 700 watts when fully pressed, over 800 watts if the battery is charged sufficiently.

 

[cldlhd]

@GenXrider:

It's just a matter of preference. I'm not surprised you prefer your ebike's system over others. In fact, I would be shocked if you didn't like your 700.

But having compared the two systems in real life, I favor how the Espin works because I can vary power output based on pedaling cadence, not just by gearing or changing PAS level.

I don't "ghost pedal" on my Espin... in fact I probably get more exercise because if I stay in PAS 1 and exceed the 10mph speed limit my motor is only putting out nominal power whereas your PAS 1 is still putting out full percentage of power (based on what you have said).

In the end... we are all enjoying our ebikes so that's all that matters.

Do you know if the Core 5 has the same system? I'm thinking about it for my N+1 but if it's not cadence based... I'm less inclined to do so. Maybe I'll let my friend get his first and test it. Also thinking about an Aventon Pace 500 (esp now that they changed their controller) because I can support a local store by buying from them rather than over the Internet.

I can say I have ridden both and I do prefer the 700 That is not to say the espin isn't good. I got a sport for my son that he shares with my wife. If someone prefers it it feels lighter to me, which it is by a few pounds but the difference feels like more, I actually like to substantial feel of the 700. They're both good bikes so it's not night and day but I definitely prefer the programmable assist on the 700. Fortunately my son doesn't really care about it.

 

[GenXrider]

My understanding is the 21 Espins can also be programmed now. I have one on order and will report on it when i can verify.

Did you get your bike?

 

[TheMike]

Well that was one of my hesitances but I put it together myself. Wasn't that much more involved in the sport and after talking to the owner my warranty is intact. I thought the sport was close and for the money it's a great deal but I ridden them both and the 700 series is better in my opinion. I guess I get his point, when I talk to him he said they do that because they're a lot of people out there getting these bikes who have no mechanical skills whatsoever and try to put them together and when something breaks it's a warranty claim.
besides to me it's not really about a comparison here it's just the idea of being able to adjust the power levels would be nice.

I have an Aventon Level, and purchased a R1UP 700, for the wife. I assembled both myself. Aventon was easy, the R1UP was manageable. I ride both and am beginning to prefer the R1UP solely because of the throttle. When we ride together, the PAS modes do not match, so either I’m way ahead of her, or pedaling a heavy bike, which kind of defeats the purpose of ebiking, IMHO. The R1UP has more a regular bike feel, with needed power for wind or hills, and allows for an easier and more enjoyable “stroll”. On the other hand, PAS on the Aventon always feels like you’re in a hurry.

 

[GenXrider]

I have an Aventon Level, and purchased a R1UP 700, for the wife. I assembled both myself. Aventon was easy, the R1UP was manageable. I ride both and am beginning to prefer the R1UP solely because of the throttle. When we ride together, the PAS modes do not match, so either I’m way ahead of her, or pedaling a heavy bike, which kind of defeats the purpose of ebiking, IMHO. The R1UP has more a regular bike feel, with needed power for wind or hills, and allows for an easier and more enjoyable “stroll”. On the other hand, PAS on the Aventon always feels like you’re in a hurry.

Funny, I like the 700 series and bought one, but I barely touch the throttle. I like the granular control of the power based PAS on the 700. You can configure it to get as much assist as you want on any assist level with an optional number of assist ranges 0-3 to 0-9. The 700 will continue to provide PAS assist when pedaling and won't cut the power until you hit 28 mph, so you should never have to pedal a heavy bike without assist. One reason I chose 700 over the Aventon was because the Aventon had an aggressive PAS without the granular control/config of the 700.

 

[PatriciaK]

My neighbor ordered her Espin Flow at the black Friday sale, after riding mine and loving it. They're both 2021 models, but after she complained on her maiden ride today that PAS1 was too aggressive, I checked it out. Sure enough, where mine accelerates moderately and smoothly up to 6-7 mph, hers zips quickly up to 9mph.

She feels out of control, and is not happy...I wouldn't have been, either!

I'm hoping Andy at Espin can provide some advice (other than just get used to it) - will contact him tomorrow.

I have to say that after talking my bike up so positively, and having my friend like it so much, it's disappointing that hers is so different from mine .

 

[Taylor57]

My neighbor ordered her Espin Flow at the black Friday sale, after riding mine and loving it. They're both 2021 models, but after she complained on her maiden ride today that PAS1 was too aggressive, I checked it out. Sure enough, where mine accelerates moderately and smoothly up to 6-7 mph, hers zips quickly up to 9mph.

She feels out of control, and is not happy...I wouldn't have been, either!

I'm hoping Andy at Espin can provide some advice (other than just get used to it) - will contact him tomorrow.

I have to say that after talking my bike up so positively, and having my friend like it so much, it's disappointing that hers is so different from mine .

Do the Flows have a color display?

 

[AHicks]

Do the Flows have a color display?

Yes, same as the Sports.

 

[cldlhd]

My neighbor ordered her Espin Flow at the black Friday sale, after riding mine and loving it. They're both 2021 models, but after she complained on her maiden ride today that PAS1 was too aggressive, I checked it out. Sure enough, where mine accelerates moderately and smoothly up to 6-7 mph, hers zips quickly up to 9mph.

She feels out of control, and is not happy...I wouldn't have been, either!

I'm hoping Andy at Espin can provide some advice (other than just get used to it) - will contact him tomorrow.

I have to say that after talking my bike up so positively, and having my friend like it so much, it's disappointing that hers is so different from mine .

My son and wife share an Espin Sport and I have also found PAS 1 to be a bit too much a few times when I ride it. I definitely appreciate being able to adjust assist percentages on my ride1up 700 .

 

[Bubsdaddy]

My early 2021 Flow starts in PAS 1 at 9 mph and gets there pretty quickly. I also don’t have a color display but given the complaints about the new display being hard to see in sunlight I’m no longer envious.

 

[cldlhd]

My early 2021 Flow starts in PAS 1 at 9 mph and gets there pretty quickly. I also don’t have a color display but given the complaints about the new display being hard to see in sunlight I’m no longer envious.

I actually prefer the black and white display on the Sport over my 700's color regarding visibility. Especially when wearing polarized shades

 

[Taylor57]

Yes, same as the Sports.

Both of my Sports are black and white displays. Here's the cut and paste from Espin:

Glad you're enjoying the Sports! Yes, unfortunately we have discontinued the Sport as we are primarily focusing on step-through frames now. We will continue to carry replacement parts for your model though, all of which are identical to the 19/20 Flow as well.

The 19/20 Sport and Flow can only use the black and white display, the newer color display will only work on 2021 and later models. Does one of your displays have an issue, or were you just looking to upgrade?

Take care,
Andy
Espin Technical Support

 

[AHicks]

Let's see what Espin has to say about any available adjustments on this newest bike. You can go back to post # 176 to see a cut and paste regarding what they (Henry) told me.

I've mentioned this previously/earlier in this string I think, that our 2 Flows (a 2020 and a 2021) and the '21 Sport, were all converted to KT controllers. Why? Because we are totally spoiled knowing full well this racing up to a certain speed (9-13mph or so, depending on bike)/poor low speed control in PAS 1 is avoidable. The bikes are now a dream to ride at any speed, down to the point where you're starting to struggle to keep you balance.

No, the KT is not a direct plug in conversion, but if your a DIY'er that's able to solder, have some time/patience available, it's not an insurmountable task. Cost is about 100. Results will put a grin on anyone's face. -Al

 

[AHicks]

Both of my Sports are black and white displays. Here's the cut and paste from Espin:

Glad you're enjoying the Sports! Yes, unfortunately we have discontinued the Sport as we are primarily focusing on step-through frames now. We will continue to carry replacement parts for your model though, all of which are identical to the 19/20 Flow as well.

The 19/20 Sport and Flow can only use the black and white display, the newer color display will only work on 2021 and later models. Does one of your displays have an issue, or were you just looking to upgrade?

Take care,
Andy
Espin Technical Support

Betting you have 2020 bikes?

 

[Taylor57]

Betting you have 2020 bikes?

I think you are correct. I just looked back at my Sport emails and I ordered 1 in July of 20 and the other in November of 20. What was interesting was that my original order in July of 20 was for a Smoke colored Flow. I changed my mind last minute and switched to a Sport. Kinda regret not getting at least 1 Flow but I cant complain as both Sports have been bullet proof...

 

[PatriciaK]

Received a reply from Espin today with video and instructions to change the power percentages for PAS levels - we're going to reduce the percentage for PAS 1 (and maybe 2), and see what happens.

I don't think the 9mph is an issue as much as how quickly and aggressively the bike achieves it is - hope this tames it a bit...