Ebikes - Narrow, rocky trails? Not so sure...

[Kurt in CT]

Back to my new source for brilliant info these days, you! So... I have this new mtn ebike. Bought it as a hobby for road and trail use. Breaking it in lately. Used it on roads... great. Rode it across a field, perfect. Love the versatility of it. But yesterday I took it on a local mtn bike trail. There were a bunch of mtn bikes on it, in packs. Non-ebikers. And the trails were narrow, hilly in spots, curvy, and all with lots of rocks and roots. Bumpy as hell. I guess you'd call it "technical". So as i tried to do a few of the trails, I was quite surprised by the irregularity of the trails, the danger involved, and noticed that I actually had too much power in some areas. Also, I didnt feel as nimble as the other std ebikers around me. So I found myself struggling a bit, and turning the PAS off and on, which is not ideal for the heavy bike. And on a couple of trails, I actually gave up and turned around. It was a bit of a reality check for me and not the slam-dunk experience I expected. I'm athletic, but realize Im not an experienced mtn biker. And now thinking that the application of heavy ebikes is much better on wider, less-rocky trails. And btw, dont get me wrong. I'm all-in and loving my bike. Just thinking that I have to learn the type of trails that are right for me. Would be very interested to hear your observations on what works for you!

 

[rich c]

Don’t understand why you would shut off the PAS. Set at the lowest level it will basically just take up the extra weight of the bike. I change the settings as I ride. I use the turbo setting to actually get me out of trouble sometimes. The Bosch system set on Turbo will actually kick me out of an issue with 1/2 to 1 revolution. Riding technical trails does take skills, it’s not just riding a bike.

 

[Kurt in CT]

Don’t understand why you would shut off the PAS. Set at the lowest level it will basically just take up the extra weight of the bike. I change the settings as I ride. I use the turbo setting to actually get me out of trouble sometimes. The Bosch system set on Turbo will actually kick me out of an issue with 1/2 to 1 revolution. Riding technical trails does take skills, it’s not just riding a bike.

I hear you on the "kicking out of a situation". Did that. My fear was being thrown over a cliff or large rock with one stroke and PAS power.

 

[Fitzy]

Don't know what you're riding, but I have a FatSix with a Bosch CX. I basically leave it on Eco (50%) all the time, and as Rich suggests, I crank it up if I'm hitting an unusually steep section of any trail I'm on. The CX is VERY responsive. I heard the latest firmware-update replaces the Sport-mode with a "dynamic" eMTB-mode which, I think, is what you're looking for. I'm not really interested in that mode though. In fact, I LIKE the idea of a dynamic mode, but its assist-range is between 120% and 300%. I trail-ride for exercise, and a minimum 120% assist is just unacceptable. Another annoyance is the lack of hepatic or audio feedback as to what mode you're in with the Intuvia controls. When you're bouncing around in a dangerous tight-spot on a trail, you don't have the luxury of verifying your selected mode while clicking and pedaling. Many times I'd come off a particularly tough run that I'd apply Turbo for to get out of, only to find a mile down the trail that when I thought I'd improved and gotten stronger on the proceeding trail, I'd only left it in Tour-mode instead of Eco-mode by accident...I feel like I'd cheated myself out of that opportunity to exercise! I'd rather Bosch put their ingenuity into developing a better eyes-off manual assistance selection method than incorporate a dynamic-mode; this takes too much control out of the biker's hands. I'd be happy with maybe an option of just two selectable modes: 50% and 300%...and of course OFF. This way a simple rocker-switch could be incorporated for trail-riding.

 

[MisterM]

Back to my new source for brilliant info these days, you! So... I have this new mtn ebike. Bought it as a hobby for road and trail use. Breaking it in lately. Used it on roads... great. Rode it across a field, perfect. Love the versatility of it. But yesterday I took it on a local mtn bike trail. There were a bunch of mtn bikes on it, in packs. Non-ebikers. And the trails were narrow, hilly in spots, curvy, and all with lots of rocks and roots. Bumpy as hell. I guess you'd call it "technical". So as i tried to do a few of the trails, I was quite surprised by the irregularity of the trails, the danger involved, and noticed that I actually had too much power in some areas. Also, I didnt feel as nimble as the other std ebikers around me. So I found myself struggling a bit, and turning the PAS off and on, which is not ideal for the heavy bike. And on a couple of trails, I actually gave up and turned around. It was a bit of a reality check for me and not the slam-dunk experience I expected. I'm athletic, but realize Im not an experienced mtn biker. And now thinking that the application of heavy ebikes is much better on wider, less-rocky trails. And btw, dont get me wrong. I'm all-in and loving my bike. Just thinking that I have to learn the type of trails that are right for me. Would be very interested to hear your observations on what works for you!

There are emtbs and then there are emtbs. Not many, except lighter, more nimble, higher-spec, mostly-Euro emtbs, are really suited for technical riding.

The guys who carry batteries in their backpacks are the ones who can really shred single tracks as their bikes are essentially standard mtbs but with added weight of motors (maybe an extra 6-8 lbs).

 

[elyhim]

No, guys with batteries in their backbacks are future spine crushed victims. It's absolutely the biggest problem those of us riding singletracks consider when riding. There ARE specific backpacks for carrying batteries but you DO NOT want to just dump it in your osprey pack. The added weight above the bike is not good as well.

Like I've said, if you want to ride singletracks buy a bike made by companies who make quality mountain bikes. The goemetry, suspension and components are not just thrown together. There's a reason the lowest EMTB is 3500 and a good one will run about 5k. Low end Full suspension mtb's start at 2k good ones are about 3.5k.

Ebikes are great in greenways, gravel, road, etc.. but if you want to ride singletrack (which imo is mind-blowing) get the emtb for it.

Sample video from one of my rides with friends (non-emtb) on a well-travelled trail. I'll post some others soon of Spring rides coming up.

Also - show good sportsmanship as emtb's are generally banned right now.

Sample

 

[elyhim]

the latest firmware-update replaces the Sport-mode with a "dynamic" eMTB-mode which, I think, is what you're looking for.

The E-MTB mode is dependent on cadence and torque. It allows for battery saving without switching all the time. I did like the sport mode but sacrificed it for Emtb. I generally stay in Tour mode but I do have a non-emtb friend I have to stay in turbo to keep up. The guy is a monster but teaches me pretty well.

Bosch is coming with another update as well which will add elevation (front to back) as a sensor as well. This will help in extremely difficult climbs.

 

[elyhim]

Kurt - Follow mtb sites to find out about tires, trails and stuff. Trailforks is a GREAT app to find new trails and different types.

 

[rich c]

Kurt - Follow mtb sites to find out about tires, trails and stuff. Trailforks is a GREAT app to find new trails and different types.

BUT FOR GOD'S SAKE, DON'T TELL THEM YOU RIDE AN EMTB. THEY'LL INSTANTLY FORM A LYNCH MOB!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Kurt in CT]

BUT FOR GOD'S SAKE, DON'T TELL THEM YOU RIDE AN EMTB. THEY'LL INSTANTLY FORM A LYNCH MOB!!!!!!!!!!

Ha! Rich, its quite funny, this world of mtn bikers. I'm definitely getting the looks. No nasty remarks though. I could really care less though either way. Just doing my thing.

 

[Kurt in CT]

No, guys with batteries in their backbacks are future spine crushed victims. It's absolutely the biggest problem those of us riding singletracks consider when riding. There ARE specific backpacks for carrying batteries but you DO NOT want to just dump it in your osprey pack. The added weight above the bike is not good as well.

Like I've said, if you want to ride singletracks buy a bike made by companies who make quality mountain bikes. The goemetry, suspension and components are not just thrown together. There's a reason the lowest EMTB is 3500 and a good one will run about 5k. Low end Full suspension mtb's start at 2k good ones are about 3.5k.

Ebikes are great in greenways, gravel, road, etc.. but if you want to ride singletrack (which imo is mind-blowing) get the emtb for it.

Sample video from one of my rides with friends (non-emtb) on a well-travelled trail. I'll post some others soon of Spring rides coming up.

Also - show good sportsmanship as emtb's are generally banned right now.

Sample

Appreciate your thoughts a lot. It's the perspective I'm looking for. Also, love your sample. And actually, the trail in that sample is hugely better than the one I started this thread with. Mine was much steeper, and the rocks and roots were horrible. I do have an emtb, though not a top-of-the-line, but can definitely do ones like you show.

 

[elyhim]

Check in with the Mountain/Trail Forum in General/Types/Mountain

 

[JRA]

Technical trail riding takes some practice, like miles and miles. This is the thing that the anti e crowd doesn't seem to want to recognize, although most of them are proficient at it and would make excellent e bikers and eventually will, they think that some Joey or Judy is going to get an e bike and magically appear saying on you left on their trail.

I think the OP's post illustrates why this isn't likely to happen to their detriment although some will be intrigued enough with the concept to practice or take a skills clinic themselves as riding gnarly single track can be a rewarding experience for those with the skills to pull it off. I foresee more problems as the experienced "shredders" get on e bikes but also feel that it will all work out in the end.

The sample was nice and would be fun on my drop barred bike. Around here the key is in the climbing/descending/single track composed of loose soil that is often saturated with moisture mixed with roots and rocks. Not as much as exposure as when I lived in CB but still will bite you if you don't treat it with respect. A bit further east has a drier climate, less roots and more rocks. Poison Oak also and getting exposed to that isn't fun. It always takes me a few miles before I feel comfortable riding there.

 

[JRA]

I hear you on the "kicking out of a situation". Did that. My fear was being thrown over a cliff or large rock with one stroke and PAS power.

This can be a problem as well as a solution. Sometimes that kick will get you into a situation also. I had a very low speed incident where the kick, in eco, sent my front wheel into a small log across the trail that I was planning on going over but didn't time it right and my front wheel jammed against it and my right arm was rigid at the time and it sent a pretty good shock into my shoulder that was sore for awhile until I Arty Johnsonned on another low speed manuever in a nasty side hill section and made it hurt again. I think I'll walk that section from now on. Never be too proud to push.

 

[rich c]

Ha! Rich, its quite funny, this world of mtn bikers. I'm definitely getting the looks. No nasty remarks though. I could really care less though either way. Just doing my thing.

My advantage is retirement. Hardly anyone out when I ride, so I don't even get a look. I also ride mostly in the winter, this year even in the low 20 degree mark. I have a strong fear of ticks. I've had some illness over the years, with a lot of fatigue. I was tested for Lyme, always negative. But the fear of more fatigue keeps me from riding this time of year with the ticks are so small.

 

[Kurt in CT]

My advantage is retirement. Hardly anyone out when I ride, so I don't even get a look. I also ride mostly in the winter, this year even in the low 20 degree mark. I have a strong fear of ticks. I've had some illness over the years, with a lot of fatigue. I was tested for Lyme, always negative. But the fear of more fatigue keeps me from riding this time of year with the ticks are so small.

I hear you. Been thinking a lot about ticks since this new hobby has me out all the time now. Its a huge problem of course. CT is as bad as it gets i think. Been bitten and on the drugs several times over the years. But no disease yet.
I work out of the house and have some flexibility in my ride-time. Mostly afternoons though, when its warmer.

 

[Fitzy]

I hear you. Been thinking a lot about ticks since this new hobby has me out all the time now. Its a huge problem of course. CT is as bad as it gets i think. Been bitten and on the drugs several times over the years. But no disease yet.
I work out of the house and have some flexibility in my ride-time. Mostly afternoons though, when its warmer.

Hey Kurt,

Forgive me if I've asked already, but where in CT do you ride? I'm from LI, but lived a good portion of my adult-life in Fairfield and the Lower Naugatuck Valley. I used to ride a gas-bike and only recently got into eMTB. Regretting I didn't start earlier in life since I know of MANY areas up there in CT that'd be IDEAL for trail-riding.

 

[Kurt in CT]

Hey Fitzy. I'm in Newtown. Northern Fairfield co., Would love to hear your suggestions.

 

[elyhim]

Hey Fitzy. I'm in Newtown. Northern Fairfield co., Would love to hear your suggestions.

Grew up in Tolland, Rode MTB's back before shocks were a thing. Storrs used to have trails to Mansfield Dam, plus all the old trails around made by dirt bikes. I do remember there was a great State Park I used to go for Tourmaline? (Huntington?) I think there were trails there in the 80's as well.