early adopters/long term support

[5P3NT]

I’m looking to hear from people who were Bosch mid drive early adopters. My main question regards long term support. Given that bike frames are built around these motors, and that new motors are not interchangeable with older models due to different size/mounting (at least that’s my understanding from the response I received from Bosch support) what happens to your setup once parts start to wear out in your motor?

Looks like Bosch has released kits to replace internal cogs and bearings for a nice refresh. How accessible are those kits to people that do most of their own work at home? For how long will they be releasing these kits for older models?

Do OEMs make adapters to mount new Bosch motors to their frames built around old motors?

I ask these questions since these e-bikes (especially cargo bikes) are quite pricey. Given that bike frames last years and years with the proper care, I don’t want a perfectly good bike to become obsolete due to the motor integration. I only get three years of guaranteed support for my phone if I want to carry around something with the latest security patches… what can I expect from a Bosch system?

Just as a reference, I replaced the bottom bracket of my dad’s mid nineties race frame to use as a commuter. After this repair, it worked great and I used it for about five years. I’ve sold that bike and now it’s being used by a college student with even more miles behind it. Will I be able to get 20 years out of a bike with Bosch mid drive integration?

 

[rich c]

I ride 2016 models, so not an early adopter. My only input is that it would take a willing bike shop to order internal motor parts for you to do DIY repairs. Bosch doesn't sell to the general public, as far as I can tell.

 

[5P3NT]

Thanks for the input rich. Are you satisfied with your rig so far? Do you find it to be reliable?

 

[CampGareth]

I think two years of warranty is standard from Bosch but beyond that I don't know if they offer support.

This is one of my main concerns with bosch, what happens after those two years are up? Can I get spare parts or extend the warranty up to 5, 10 years?

 

[tompat]

You can still find parts for the Bosch Gen 1 systems from 2012 and on, I believe.

In worst case if parts cannot be sourced, slap a Bafang or Tongsheng motor on it, a machine shop should be able to manufacture an adapter that fits the Bosch mounting bracket. Sad part is you'd need a new battery and controller too, but at least you'd keep the bike frame.

 

[5P3NT]

Hi tompat, is this something your local bike shop told you? The guys at my shop (they are normally very knowledgeable) assured me there would be spare parts and support from Bosch for years to come, but didn't have specifics on how long replacement parts would be available. I guess that's going to be my followup question to Bosch support. Like they told me at the shop, e-bikes are in a wild west phase.. things will get sorted out eventually.

 

[5P3NT]

Hi CampGareth, yeah, I'd be happy with access to spare parts for 10 years.. that would be a minimum for me though. I don't want my local landfill piled up with perfectly good bike frames... I guess you can always sell it as scrap metal.

 

[tompat]

Hi tompat, is this something your local bike shop told you?

Well, no, making a motor swap for something else than original on a Bosch bike is totally uncharted territory and done on own risk. But i've done engine swaps on automobiles several times for completely different engines and what doesn't fit can be made to fit. Most issues can be sorted out.

 

[Chris Nolte]

Bosch has stated publicly that they will keep with the automotive standard and continue to support their products for a minimum of 7 years after they stop manufacturing. I have not seen one better at the moment, even though this technically might be the law in some states.

 

[5P3NT]

Thanks for the info Chris. That's the type of clear answer I've been looking for.

 

[5P3NT]

Just in case it helps others, here is the e-mail Q&A I had with Bosch support:

Me (Q):
I'm interested in purchasing an e-bike fitted with a Bosch system. The only thing that makes me hesitate is my question of long term support. Since the bike is built around the motor, does Bosch retain a standard for mounting motors? Basically, will the new 2020 motors mount onto bikes built around the old line of motors, and will the next line of motors mount onto bikes built around the 2020 motors? Thanks for any info you can provide. I wasn't getting a definitive response at my local bike shop.

Bosch (A):
Thank you for contacting Bosch eBike Service!
I am very pleased to hear you are interested in a Bosch equipped eBike. The way this work is we Provide the Drive Unit to the OEM and they design the Bike frame with the proper mounting space for our Drive Units. The Drive units are not interchangeable even with the Current product line and the same will apply for the 2020 models. You may find certain OEM that will maintain the same frame design and change the mounting point on their bike to keep the same frame design yet have the newer 2020 Drive Unit on their bikes, however that's solely up to the OEM. We plan on still providing the same level of support for all prior model Drive Units which means if you Purchase the current model we have now although we are lunching the 2020 model there will be no shortage of replacement part and warranty parts for the current model Drive Unit.

Me (Q):
I appreciate the information. I'm glad to hear that replacement parts are generally available. Is there a guaranteed time that replacement parts are available? In other words, If I purchase a bike with the new 2020 cargo motor, for how long will replacement parts be available for that model,? Thanks in advance for any information.

Bosch (A):
All of our Bike components are always available for replacement we have not or will not discontinue any of the part where you will not be supported by us. Although we are lunching the 2020 model some of the bike OEM are still using our previous models which means we have to keep producing spare parts to be able to support the OEM and the end consumer, rest assure that rather it's the 2020 model or an older model. You will always have our support and our service will always be available to you. We manufacture all of the Bosch Parts that are on the Bosch equipped ebike, at this moment we are providing spare parts for even our 2015 models and before.

 

[Asher]

For anyone arriving here, know that California law requires manufacturers to offer replacement parts for 7 years for sales in California. Even if you don't live in California, you might find someone who does who needs the same part replaced, through this forum or another, and demand manufacturer support.

The original sale had to occur in California (not sure how online purchases from non-CA sellers are treated).

 

[Dewey]

Fahrradprofis in Ravensburg, Germany, can supply a first-generation Bosch Classic 2011-2013 motor core, and parts https://www.ebay.de/str/fahrradprofis?_bkw=bosch

The used market is more mature in the EU eg https://www.tweedehandsfietsen.nl/tweedehands-elektrische-fiets so folk want to keep older model ebikes going.

 

[William - Bosch Team]

Hello everybody! I recognize that this is a fairly old thread, aside from posts by Asher and Dewey, but I see some opportunity to provide a bit more insight or clarity for folks using it as a reference.

Chris Nolte's response in post #9 is perfect, and I'd recommend it as a point of reference on the topic.

To elaborate on Asher's point, we stick to the same policy for an entire region, rather than a state by state approach. NA, and all other global regions for that matter, will likely have the same level of parts support for a minimum of 7 years after discontinuation.

I appreciate 5P3NT taking the time to share the response from Bosch. That being said, I think we (Bosch Service) could have made the response a bit more clear and concise. There may also be a few confusing or potentially inacurate statements in there. It looks like this communication was from a while ago, but I'll still work with the team to make sure we are doing better than this. I'll also attempt to add some more detail.

First, the short and easy answer: When the time comes that the generation of Bosch eBike System on your bike is no longer considered "current," you will still have at least 7 years of spare parts support. Drive unit, battery, display, all connecting wiring, etc. Aside from the bearing kit for our Gen2 DU, we do not offer anything that would be considered an internal replacement part.

Like any component manufacturer or system supplier, we must adapt to the needs of our OEM customers. This means that you will generally see changes in mounting methods, etc., between different generations of drive unit. These changes benefit the end-consumer in the form of improvements that may include lighter, stiffer, strong, and/or more reliable integrations. It could also mean a much better ride experience- our relocation of the Gen4 DU spindle compared to Gen2/3 meant a chainstay measurement that could be as much as 30mm shorter, aka a very big deal on some frames.

If you wanted to get a bit more DIY, it's highly unlikely that you'd be able to mount a newer generation drive unit on an eBike previously equipped with a different generation of drive unit. Aside from mechanical incompatibility, the OEM of your eBike would not approve it as it would not comply with their extensive testing, etc. The mounting design between Gen2/3 and Gen4 is very different. Even if you were able to make an adapter plate, it would be nearly impossible to get the spindle in the right place, etc., if you could even mount it in the first place. Also, you would not be permitted to purchase a drive unit for any application other than OEM design. Fortunately, the support from Bosch following the discontinuation of any given model should make this a non-issue.

I realize this is a fair amount of "you can't do this," but we want to be upfront about what to expect with your Bosch-equipped eBike.

I hope this helps!