E-scooter rider BUSTED for operating without licence & insurance

Dave Rocks

Dave Rocks

Well-Known Member
Region
Canada
City
MISSISSAUGA
It's about time. I hate that these elerctric motorcycles are classified like an E-Bike.

Here's a few blurbs from the News Report...

Ali Moussa Ghadban argued in court that his Motorino XMr is a motor-assisted cycle — outfitted with pedals, limited power and a maximum speed of 32 km/h — and under B.C. law doesn't require a driver's licence or insurance to operate. But a judicial justice disagreed, and a B.C. Supreme Court judge recently upheld that decision.

It does not comply with the intent of the legislation, which was for a [motor-assisted cycle] to supplement or assist the human power required to pedal the vehicle," Jenkins wrote in his decision.

The officer testified that he saw a man riding what he believed to be a "small motorcycle" who hopped onto the plaza at King George SkyTrain Station. The officer then noted the motorcycle had pedals, but Ghadban wasn't using them.

FULL STORY: british-columbia/e-bike-rider-loses-court-case-against-ticket-for-operating-without-licence-insurance

electric-scooters.jpg
 
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The story is not very accurate. First of all, the photo is not of a Motorino XMr. I am not even sure it is electric, but if it is, it is an electric motorcycle, not an e-bike. Also, when I googled the XMr, the company sells it as an electric scooter, not an e-bike. Heck, the XMr does not even have pedals. Did the own somehow install pedals on it, or is the story citing the wrong model of -e-bike? All the e-bikes on Motorino's site look like normal e-bikes to me.
 
If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck it's a....................................................
 
e-scooter :eek:
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Yeah, why not? :) If the specifications tell us it's a well-built e-scooter, hah? And talking about insurance policies and regulations, I've been looking and searching for the best insurance for my case, and the only company I could find which was helpful is this one ( website: https://www.americaninsurance.com/auto-insurance-veterans ), cause it can take into account some discounts if you're a veteran. Cool service, for sure.
 
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Technically it's an ebike. It can be propelled by either motor or pedals or both at the same time.
In reality, everybody uses it as an e-scooter, nobody pedals it - wrong geometry and too heavy.
Despite the technicalities, the judge nailed it - this goes against the intent of motor-assisted pedaling. Good riddance.
 
Alex M said:
Technically it's an ebike. It can be propelled by either motor or pedals or both at the same time.
In reality, everybody uses it as an e-scooter, nobody pedals it - wrong geometry and too heavy.
Despite the technicalities, the judge nailed it - this goes against the intent of motor-assisted pedaling. Good riddance.
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Is it a then a moped?
 
jaizon said:
It's listed on the website as a scooter...not an e-bike. Busted and dusted. Next.
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Yup I had one of those blow by me in the dedicated bike lane on the Burrard bridge. I was going about 30km and he passed closely by me at maybe 60 km. I never saw him in my mirror and it scared the Jeebus out of me.
 
It's not what the law explicitly states, it's what the judge states they really mean. Don't note any laxity in the law, just pencil it in against an individual.
 
Alex M said:
Technically it's an ebike. It can be propelled by either motor or pedals or both at the same time.
In reality, everybody uses it as an e-scooter, nobody pedals it - wrong geometry and too heavy.
Despite the technicalities, the judge nailed it - this goes against the intent of motor-assisted pedaling. Good riddance.
Click to expand...

I have always thought that "intent" of the law was far more important than letter of the law because it would allow for much simpler laws. But that is not the way the US or Cananda legal systems have been going because lawyers love to find the tiniest of loopholes such that letter has taken over. I have seen things in low level county courts that were nothing but lawyers and judges using the system to keep money flowing thru the system and this case sounds a whole lot like that.

If the ebike complied with the letter of the ebike regulations it makes no sense for the judge to subjectively say that it was not compliant with the intent because in their very next case they would like just revert to letter of the law if it benefited them.
 
This, (IMHO) is not an e-bike and I don't want it lumped in with my e-bike, or my e-bike lumped in with it. I understand the rugged individualist point of view expressed in this thread, but sometimes common sense and logic has to take precedence over personal feelings. I also understand not liking te courts' ruling, but a Formula 1 car should never be street legal, unless you alter it to fill all the requirements of a street legal car (of course, then it wouldn't be an F1 car). Don't like the laws? get them changedd. Don't like the system? That's a whole other story.
 
Handlebars said:
Judges pencil in their own law. It's Canada.
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Judges do conveniently go back and forth between letter of the law and intent of the law ruling to ensure their is cash flowing into the legal system. I once had a judge tell me why lawyers and judges behave the way they do in many cases....he literally said how do you expect them to make a living. He was literally justifying them breaking their own rules which I said was no different than anyone taking the law into their own hands. I was suggesting that I would do that but he understood my point as to why they can't use their power that way.
 
Reason based on anecdotal logic leaves a lot to be desired, don't you think? And yes, the world is a corrupt place. Would you prefer no laws??? Black flagger?
 
jaizon said:
This, (IMHO) is not an e-bike and I don't want it lumped in with my e-bike, or my e-bike lumped in with it. I understand the rugged individualist point of view expressed in this thread, but sometimes common sense and logic has to take precedence over personal feelings. I also understand not liking te courts' ruling, but a Formula 1 car should never be street legal, unless you alter it to fill all the requirements of a street legal car (of course, then it wouldn't be an F1 car). Don't like the laws? get them changedd. Don't like the system? That's a whole other story.
Click to expand...
It's not an ebike why? What makes it not an ebike? What makes it not fit the description? By looking more closely you will find that we that hate those kind are cheering for our own demise here.
That the rider was not pedaling seems to be implication of it not being an ebike even though it fit the law by having working pedals.
So must an ebike rider always be pedaling or it's not an ebike?
So no throttle.
What if ghost pedaling? Oh, not a ebike.
Those judges just penciled in against all our bikes, even ones without throttle. Because you could always ghost pedal, or have a tiny motor turning th epedals, wehich is nto what was intended according to the penciling-in judge mentality.

So let's talk about the intent of ebike laws, because that judge did NOT use the intent of the lawmakers.
Please let's all tell our idea of the intent of laws allowing ebikes and see that we are cheering for the demise of our beloved vehicles here.
 
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