E-scooter rider BUSTED for operating without licence & insurance

[Stefan Mikes]

The guy was riding a scooter. He lied it was an e-bike. Canada has specific e-bike laws. The guy was tried and found guilty. Why to discuss that at all?

Motorino XMr description.

 

[opimax]

I asked earlier , weren’t the the pedals used to start the original mopeds. I asked because if they were they are functional pedals ...for starting a moped but not functional to ride more than a few feet due to the gearing be so high

 

[PDXzap]

I asked earlier , weren’t the the pedals used to start the original mopeds

Yes.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

To start the engine, precisely.

 

[jaizon]

Motorino bikes come with pedals, and I don't see insurance plate.
Yes, they're technically bicycles so I guess you can use it on bike lane.

Daymak EM2
No license, no insurance.

Wow! that last one is positively embarrassing.

 

[E-Wheels]

ViperMax,

They come with pedals, so technically, electric bicycle.

Viper street – Vipermax

vipermax.ca

NO LICENSE, NO INSURANCE REQUIRED.

Looking at how far back the pedals are to the rear wheel, would it be even possible to ride these as a bicycle when seated?

 

[Alex M]

I think they put pedals just so that they can meet the legal definition of ebikes, not for practical reasons.

True. They are exploiting the loophole in regulations and will keep doing it until the loophole exists.
Precedent decisions could eventually change this. Or provincial lawmakers will change the regulations and make pay everybody on anything that meets legal definition of ebikes if you want to use it on the road.

 

[TMH]

True. They are exploiting the loophole in regulations and will keep doing it until the loophole exists.
Precedent decisions could eventually change this. Or provincial lawmakers will change the regulations and make pay everybody on anything that meets legal definition of ebikes if you want to use it on the road.

What exactly is a 'loophole'?

Laws and regulations don't cover everything, and may well have been written and approved intentionally the way they are.

Then some politicians see something in a law which they want covered because they perceive that it imparts some benefit to their counterparts in a different party. All of a sudden it is a 'loophole'.

Why don't they just call it a poorly written law? Probably because that won't connote that their enemies are 'getting away with something' like they want the public to believe. And/or one of their own colleagues may have written the particular law, and they may have even voted themselves to pass it.

There is no such thing as a 'loophole'. A law or regulation either covers something or it does not. And it may have been very intentional that it did not. If it is a bad law or regulation because it doesn't cover something important in a proper manner, create new legislation. Or just continue to play the political game and call it a loophole so that a gullible public believes that your political enemies are doing something bad/improper.

I'm all for anybody and everybody to utilize 'loopholes.' It means that they are complying with the law as written and approved.

 

[PDoz]

I'm all for anybody and everybody to utilize 'loopholes.' It means that they are complying with the law as written and approved.

Perhaps you may wish to consider it's not the politicians who created these imperfect laws ? Between lobby groups, voter backlash, and industries blatantly looking for ways to exploit the legal imperfections, perhaps you may want to accept it's time to stop blaming the politicians and start expecting society to take some responsibility?

Do you honestly want young children to be sharing bicycle paths with morons on electric motorbikes that have pedals to exploit a loophole?

 

[TMH]

Perhaps you may wish to consider it's not the politicians who created these imperfect laws ? Between lobby groups, voter backlash, and industries blatantly looking for ways to exploit the legal imperfections, perhaps you may want to accept it's time to stop blaming the politicians and start expecting society to take some responsibility?

Do you honestly want young children to be sharing bicycle paths with morons on electric motorbikes that have pedals to exploit a loophole?

It is the job of politicians to creates and implement appropriate laws. If they cannot or will not, why are they remain in office?

I certainly was not present when these laws applying to e-bikes were written, discussed and passed. Were there justifiable and valid reasons why what you have categorized (I believe incorrectly) as 'electric motorbikes' were not banned? I certainly cannot say because I was not there. Were you? Do you have full and complete information on the basis of the law as implemented?

Or is it just something which you don't like, and therefore wish to paint with the politically concocted phrase of 'loophole'?

Something is either legal per an existing law or regulation, or it is not. If the law or regulation is inadequate it should be changed, utilizing the same process by which it was originally written and approved. This allows it to correctly include, or exclude certain behaviors, parameters or definitions which balance the needs of the society. At least this is the way things are supposed to work.

 

[PDoz]

It is the job of politicians to creates and implement appropriate laws. If they cannot or will not, why are they remain in office?

I certainly was not present when these laws applying to e-bikes were written, discussed and passed. Were there justifiable and valid reasons why what you have categorized (I believe incorrectly) as 'electric motorbikes' were not banned? I certainly cannot say because I was not there. Were you? Do you have full and complete information on the basis of the law as implemented?

Or is it just something which you don't like, and therefore wish to paint with the politically concocted phrase of 'loophole'?

Something is either legal per an existing law or regulation, or it is not. If the law or regulation is inadequate it should be changed, utilizing the same process by which it was originally written and approved . This allows it to correctly include, or exclude certain behaviors, parameters or definitions which balance the needs of the society.At least this is the way things are supposed to work.

Firstly, I suspect we live in different countries with different mechanisms for law formation and reform. I don't know why you perceive politicians as the people responsible, but most politicians see their job as getting re elected

In my country, Australia, any electrically powered two wheeled vehicle with over250 w nominal power and assistance beyond 25 kph is classed as an electric motorbike. If it has a throttle, that drops back to 200 w . So those are motorbikes with pedals attached.

Right back at you " . This allows it to correctly include, or exclude certain behaviors, parameters or definitions which balance the needs of the society. " . Yet you advocate manipulating the intent of legislature to allow individuals to behave against the needs of society. So again, would you be comfortable with mr Moron riding these vehicles on shared paths with children?

 

[FlatSix911]

It's about time. I hate that these elerctric motorcycles are classified like an E-Bike. Here's a few blurbs from the News Report...

Ali Moussa Ghadban argued in court that his Motorino XMr is a motor-assisted cycle — outfitted with pedals, limited power and a maximum speed of 32 km/h —
and under B.C. law doesn't require a driver's licence or insurance to operate. But a judicial justice disagreed, and a B.C. Supreme Court judge recently upheld that decision.

It does not comply with the intent of the legislation, which was for a [motor-assisted cycle] to supplement or assist the human power required to pedal the vehicle," Jenkins wrote in his decision.
The officer testified that he saw a man riding what he believed to be a "small motorcycle" who hopped onto the plaza at King George SkyTrain Station. The officer then noted the motorcycle had pedals, but Ghadban wasn't using them.

FULL STORY: british-columbia/e-bike-rider-loses-court-case-against-ticket-for-operating-without-licence-insurance

I wonder how a judge would rule on this EBike? For the police... it's often Do as I say, not as I do...

US police officers test 50 mph electric bicycles in real-world patrols

When we first covered the high-power Delfast TopCop electric bicycle, the company was still pitching its bikes to various police...

electrek.co

 

[TMH]

...but most politicians see their job as getting re elected

Sadly so true, regardless of country.

Yes, it appears that our differences of opinion may be largely based on our home geographies. In the U.S., at least in the state of California with which I am most familiar with the laws, there is a defined category of low power electric scooter. These must have pedals per the law (which are largely cosmetic on all such scooters I have seen, but are present and will at least move the bike on its own for a few feet), they have a twist grip throttle, limit on the power of the electric motor and limit on the top speed (IIRC somewhere between 20-30mph).

These electric scooters are allowed to share the roadway with other vehicles where the posted speed limit is 35mph or less. They are not, therefore, allowed on highways, freeways, expressways, throughways or even some local streets with a higher speed limit.

More importantly they are not allowed in bike lanes, on bike paths or bike trails. So they may be mixing it up with other traffic, but that is vehicular traffic which is much larger and faster than they are. So if owners of these vehicles understand the law, and if adequate enforcement of the law is in place, kids and other folks on bikes/e-bikes on the bike trails won't have to mix it up with these electric scooters.

 

[Handlebars]

Perhaps you may wish to consider it's not the politicians who created these imperfect laws ? Between lobby groups, voter backlash, and industries blatantly looking for ways to exploit the legal imperfections, perhaps you may want to accept it's time to stop blaming the politicians and start expecting society to take some responsibility?

Do you honestly want young children to be sharing bicycle paths with morons on electric motorbikes that have pedals to exploit a loophole?

Of course it is the politicians who created the laws. To deny that is to deny the simple truth in favour of virtue signalling progressive nonsense where words don't mean what they mean until you want them to mean what they mean again.

 

[Handlebars]

Do you honestly want young children to be sharing bicycle paths with morons on electric motorbikes that have pedals to exploit a loophole

That virtue-signalling shaming tactic is absurd.
There are possible remedies, such as setting speed limits on such pathways with young children expected on them, at, say, 10 km/hr, pass only on one side, must alert by bell or horn, etc.
A job of politicians is to argue and make good laws and amend them where necessary. Sometimes other authorities such a parks authorities can set rules. It's not that difficult a concept to grasp.

 

[PDoz]

Of course it is the politicians who created the laws. To deny that is to deny the simple truth in favour of virtue signalling progressive nonsense where words don't mean what they mean until you want them to mean what they mean again.

That's mean

 

[PDoz]

That virtue-signalling shaming tactic is absurd.
There are possible remedies, such as setting speed limits on such pathways with young children expected on them, at, say, 10 km/hr, pass only on one side, must alert by bell or horn, etc.
A job of politicians is to argue and make good laws and amend them where necessary. Sometimes other authorities such a parks authorities can set rules. It's not that difficult a concept to grasp.

Don't even think about accusing me of virtue signalling until you recognise this is s global forum and your perspective is narrow.

Now go do some research on common law before stubbornly coming back and arguing your fixed belief.

And perhaps try to recognise this incident occurred under Canadian law.

 

[Handlebars]

They like to tell you what you can and can't think.

 

[bob armani]

I wonder how a judge would rule on this EBike? For the police... it's often Do as I say, not as I do...

US police officers test 50 mph electric bicycles in real-world patrols

When we first covered the high-power Delfast TopCop electric bicycle, the company was still pitching its bikes to various police...

electrek.co

View attachment 52054

On many occasions, you see cops making rules that only apply to themselves, but not for everyone else. Whatever is convenient for them at the time IMO.

 

[Handlebars]

Don't even think about accusing me of virtue signalling until you recognise this is s global forum and your perspective is narrow.

Now go do some research on common law before stubbornly coming back and arguing your fixed belief.

And perhaps try to recognise this incident occurred under Canadian law.

Oh. You tacked on a little something.
I'm Canadian. Maybe you'll tell me next that I'm to not dare think I'm Canadian?