e-bike rollercoaster. What's next?

[dynamic]

Sounds like you’re enjoying your wife’s Current. You mentioned on another thread an issue with the weehoo hitting the rack. I wrap a piece of inner tube around the seatpost and clamp a second seatpost clamp over it to raise the hitch height.

My seat can’t be high enough to do that with the thudbuster.

The axiom mk3 gets under it though. But the mk3 isn’t compatible with the burley child seat. So to switch kids I have to switch racks. Frame mount seats likely don’t work either.

 

[dynamic]

I had a chance to ride a 2022 vado 4.0 back to back with my wife's current on exactly the same 2 mile ride (a mile up, a mile down). I am a little baffled about some of my experience. Let's start with some practical stuff.

The vado seemed more comfortable in almost every way. Vibration, position, hand fatigue/numbness, rough road. All of it. The only thing I didn't like more was the seat itself. It's a bit too sporty and I definitely prefer a more cushy feeling. These were not huge differences, but they added up to more than expected when taken together. The bike felt more planted going downhill at speed on rougher road.

The baffling part: The current clearly has more power most of the time. It's jumpier when in high pedal assist. Ready to take off like a rocket. *but*, I found the vado to be the more comfortable climber on this particular climb. Now, I road my current second, so maybe I was just tired. But when climbing hard I push my current into the easiest gear and pedal assist 5. And the vado, yes, I was in turbo, but I don't think I was in the granny gear, and it still felt easier somehow. My wife commented on this as well when she got the current. She said "the other one felt easier" based on the previous model vado 4 we had rented. By contrast, on flat land, the gear ratio of the current and it's comparatively higher power let's you blast up to speed. The vado seems to rely a bit more on me to get there. Interesting.

One thing I learned, I *really* prefer CVT. Like, really. It's not close.

I am a bit concerned the vado IGH will change this equation. And I really can't test that one directly.

Any explanations why a seemingly less powerful motor would *feel* better going uphill?

 

[AlanDB]

I sometimes fall into the trap of overthinking things and avoiding a decision. Not saying you are doing that, but sometimes you just plain like something better than another thing in spite of trying to objectively weigh all the facts. Whatever you decide, just enjoy it and don't try to second guess if there was a better choice.

 

[AHicks]

I had a chance to ride a 2022 vado 4.0 back to back with my wife's current on exactly the same 2 mile ride (a mile up, a mile down). I am a little baffled about some of my experience. Let's start with some practical stuff.

The vado seemed more comfortable in almost every way. Vibration, position, hand fatigue/numbness, rough road. All of it. The only thing I didn't like more was the seat itself. It's a bit too sporty and I definitely prefer a more cushy feeling. These were not huge differences, but they added up to more than expected when taken together. The bike felt more planted going downhill at speed on rougher road.

The baffling part: The current clearly has more power most of the time. It's jumpier when in high pedal assist. Ready to take off like a rocket. *but*, I found the vado to be the more comfortable climber on this particular climb. Now, I road my current second, so maybe I was just tired. But when climbing hard I push my current into the easiest gear and pedal assist 5. And the vado, yes, I was in turbo, but I don't think I was in the granny gear, and it still felt easier somehow. My wife commented on this as well when she got the current. She said "the other one felt easier" based on the previous model vado 4 we had rented. By contrast, on flat land, the gear ratio of the current and it's comparatively higher power let's you blast up to speed. The vado seems to rely a bit more on me to get there. Interesting.

One thing I learned, I *really* prefer CVT. Like, really. It's not close.

I am a bit concerned the vado IGH will change this equation. And I really can't test that one directly.

Any explanations why a seemingly less powerful motor would *feel* better going uphill?

I'm left wondering about the size of the tires on each of the "test" bikes, and if they were properly inflated for the weight of the rider? Mis-matches here could really affect the feel of the bike....

 

[dynamic]

I sometimes fall into the trap of overthinking things and avoiding a decision. Not saying you are doing that, but sometimes you just plain like something better than another thing in spite of trying to objectively weigh all the facts. Whatever you decide, just enjoy it and don't try to second guess if there was a better choice.

Oh, I am absolutely doing that. But there are some things the bike absolutely has to be able to do. I also have a bit of a theory about why it feels different (get to that in a second). It would drive me crazy if, for example, if the vado works well for just me on a hill like this one, but falls flat on its face hauling a trailer with my kid in it (and that is something I can't test). That's 360lb total weight (with over 100 in the trailer). And the vado will be double the price of a current.

But my theory: on a regular bike, you only move when pushing the pedals. Since there is a natural rhythm to pedaling where you are at your strongest, going uphill can be a bit "pulsy". The bike moves the most when you are at the strongest part of your stroke. The current is like this as well. However, I think the vado does something to smooth this out. Like it helps keep the power up between the strongest parts of your cadence. This ends up allowing me to back off a bit while accomplishing the same task. Graphically, as you alternate legs, the power output would look similar to a sine wave. Up, down, up, down. The vado feels like it fills in the valleys with more power, while the current feels like it increases the peaks.

I don't know if that is accurate from a physics perspective, but that is how it felt to me. And, I definitely like it. On the current, I always want to push harder because that's how it responds well. (And that is probably better for exercise). But the vado seems to encourage finding a cadence and sticking with it. That cadence happened to be easier for this hill.

 

[dynamic]

I'm left wondering about the size of the tires on each of the "test" bikes, and if they were properly inflated for the weight of the rider? Mis-matches here could really affect the feel of the bike....

Could be. The tires on both bikes are 650b but the vado's are wider I believe (2.3 vs 2.0). The vado was just assembled by the bike shop, and I would think it would have standard tire pressure for a bike people can try.
The vado also has a front suspension while the current does not. I have a thudbuster on the current and the vado has whatever spring suspension seat post it has. I really wasn't expecting the comfort different. Positionally, I could possibly match them with the adjustable stem on the current.

Just a bit surprised.

 

[dynamic]

I am just going to tag on here: If you care about support from your bike company: Go Priority. I am now having an order issue with specialized and it is like pulling teeth. So much so, that I am questioning whether specialized is worth owning at all. It's night and day on a support level. Meanwhile priority is pretty much bending over backwards to help solve my issues with the current. Specialized is a major disappointment as a company so far.

If priority made a higher end e-bike with a more known/reliable motor, I would buy it instantly. Especially if it still cost less than a vado/como 5.0.

I am just putting that out there for those who care. I may not keep my currents, but the priority 600/600x are easily #1 on my regular bike list by the sheer awesomeness of the company.

 

[AHicks]

If priority made a higher end e-bike with a more known/reliable motor, I would buy it instantly. Especially if it still cost less than a vado/como 5.0.

Bingo. You just hit my #1 concern. Then there's the throttle issue....

 

[dynamic]

Bingo. You just hit my #1 concern. Then there's the throttle issue....

Yeah, but, right now, if I had just dealt with priority, I would have two functional bikes and be out riding. At this moment, I haze zero functional bikes. So, motor issues aside, if the goal is to be out on the bike, priority is obliterating specialized even considering the motor failure of one of the bikes. Especially if I opted to do the work myself. The biggest issue is I don't want to become my own bike mechanic. But, I also don't want to spend all my time trying to get a company to fix stupid order issues (these stupid order issues have resulted in me being unable to actually receive a vado I ordered. Not going into the details).

And I am just tired. Biking was supposed to be fun and freeing.

 

[Avg_Joe]

The biggest issue is I don't want to become my own bike mechanic. But, I also don't want to spend all my time trying to get a company to fix stupid order issues (these stupid order issues have resulted in me being unable to actually receive a vado I ordered. Not going into the details).

Not defending Specialized, but did you buy through a LBS or Specialized directly? Your comment about not wanting to be a bike mechanic == what better time to start a relationship with a LBS than when buying the bike?

 

[dynamic]

Not defending Specialized, but did you buy through a LBS or Specialized directly? Your comment about not wanting to be a bike mechanic == what better time to start a relationship with a LBS than when buying the bike?

Through specialized. Largely because the LBS can't get stock of 5.0 IGH Vado or offer specialized financing. So I ordered directly through Specialized and had the bike sent to my LBS for delivery.
Since my order was cancelled through some stupidity (and I share a piece of that, but not all of it) "My bike" is at the LBS now and will not be mine because of this. It's ridiculous. My red 5.0 vado igh in medium is waiting for a return label.

I'm in an Abbot & Costello e-mail exchange with specialized for 5 days now.

Priority support is angelic in comparison.

My LBS built my priority currents and they are unbuilding and packing them for return.

I am currently looking at buying a different priority model (not electric) since they are so amazing and specialized is... words I can not say.

 

[Avg_Joe]

What a cluster, so sorry to hear this. I hope, in the end, you can just enjoy riding - regardless of what you're riding!

 

[dynamic]

What a cluster, so sorry to hear this. I hope, in the end, you can just enjoy riding - regardless of what you're riding!

Thank You.

Honestly? I have zero bikes. I delivered my currents to be packed up and returned. I learned today that even if I wanted to buy this bike through the LBS (the LBS doesn't even really want this), it is possible that the return is already final and can't be changed. It will go back into the stock pool and if I am lucky, I can catch it and re-buy it then. ;P If that's the case, I will never buy another specialized product. I simply have no tolerance for companies that have zero flexibility on customer issues.

I am going to talk to them tomorrow about that. However, I have a stubborn streak about a million miles wide. And I am not sure I can get over specialized stupidity on this matter. What happens when they give me the Abbot & Costello routine on an actual support issue? I mean, when they have this much trouble *taking my money* how can I believe they will be there when the motor dies?

Sorry, ranting. I have had a really rough week around bikes. Have I mentioned I was in a bike accident? Yeah.

 

[dynamic]

In other news, I got to try a serial 1 rush city speed. My LBS had one in borrowed from their distributor (trying to get them to carry the brand). It has the automatiq shifter with enviolo hub! (just like the specialized!)
It basically blew past everything else I have tried. The vado 4.0 chain model was a bit more comfortable in some ways. But the shifting experience on the serial 1 is much much better.
It's a bit different when cadence is everything. I have no idea what the cadence RPM was set to, but, whatever it was, if you pedaled above it, it shifted up, and if you pedaled below it, it shifted down. There is no question I naturally prefer a slower and harder cadence. But, assuming I got used to that, the complete elimination of shifting was absolutely awesome.
That said, casually riding down a flat road is a bit weird. Because I am not keeping the cadence up, the gearing gets really easy. I am not really a fan of this. On flat roads and easier stuff, I like some bite in my pedaling. Turning off the pedal assist does not fully address this. Helps a little though.
So, it's the best bike I have ridden yet, and it's obtainable. So, specialized needs to get its act together quickly. Cause I might have walked out of there with that thing if it were actually purchase-able.
Oh, and I got to feel the bliss of riding a few different bikes today. It was fantastic. I also tried a diverge evo. And I discovered I am not in good enough shape to make riding a regular bike fun around here. So, e-bike or bust.

 

[AHicks]

I mentioned the consumer direct Evelo Atlas earlier. That has the same CVT, but is manually shifted, or more correctly, the ratio is changed manually. They came in today. Have one headed my way that should be here next week. There's just a few of them....

 

[dynamic]

I mentioned the consumer direct Evelo Atlas earlier. That has the same CVT, but is manually shifted, or more correctly, the ratio is changed manually. They came in today. Have one headed my way that should be here next week. There's just a few of them....

I am still hoping to avoid an internet direct brand. But, yeah, they emailed me and if their financing options were better, I would have clicked buy five minutes ago.

I assume the bafang in that is likely better than whatever priority uses?

 

[AHicks]

1. M600 has torque sensing and is throttle capable.
2. I'm not going to knock a motor that doesn't have much of a track record. I will say the M600 has made a lot of friends with the off road crowd, is popular due to it's relatively small size and light weight. That helps offset some of the CVT weight....

Plenty of power w/throttle & torque sensing coupled to a CVT with a belt is a pretty unusual combo. I don't think anyone else has anything like it available.

You have a shop that you seem to enjoy dealing with. Betting they would be receptive to working on your Evelo for you. Evelo has a pretty good track record when it comes to support....

 

[dynamic]

1. M600 has torque sensing and is throttle capable.
2. I'm not going to knock a motor that doesn't have much of a track record. I will say the M600 has made a lot of friends with the off road crowd, is popular due to it's relatively small size and light weight. That helps offset some of the CVT weight....

Plenty of power w/throttle & torque sensing coupled to a CVT with a belt is a pretty unusual combo. I don't think anyone else has anything like it available.

You have a shop that you seem to enjoy dealing with. Betting they would be receptive to working on your Evelo for you. Evelo has a pretty good track record when it comes to support....

I am going to give Abbot & Costello one more day. My LBS may have gotten somewhere with them.

But if evelo atlas and/or the serial 1 is reasonably doable, likely one will be ordered when the comedy team fails to do their job.

 

[dynamic]

Well, tomorrow morning, if specialized doesn't somehow mess things up more, I will be purchasing the vado from my LBS.
I have mixed feelings about this. I am really angry with the way specialized handles customers. I am also really happy with my LBS and I am thrilled I can support them. But it doesn't come with the same return period or 0% interest financing. And there is a part of me that is nervous that I just kill e-bikes. It wouldn't be the first time I found something that isn't "tough enough" for my daily usage.
Basically, without my LBS, specialized would have been banned from my life. This bike better be worth it.

 

[AHicks]

My bet is it will be what you make it. If you go off over every tiny thing/inconvenience you can think of/run across, my bet is nothing has changed - it won't be "tough enough".

If you cut the bike, and the dealer, some slack with a realistic attitude, it would be no surprise here if the bike stands up to it's reputation.

Your call....