Do you charge your Bosch 500w battery to 100% With your Bosch standard charger? If not, why not?

[Dallant]

Do you charge your Bosch 500w battery to 100% with your Bosch standard charger? If not, why not?
i keep hearing it’s not good to charge these batteries to 100% but I’ve yet to hear a good reason not to. The Bosch standard battery charger shuts off right when the battery shows all 5 LEDs lit so I’m wondering what’s your indication to unplug it and your reason why. Today’s Li-on battery tech isn’t supposed to have any memory issues.

 

[Johnny]

Do you charge your Bosch 500w battery to 100% with your Bosch standard charger? If not, why not?
i keep hearing it’s not good to charge these batteries to 100% but I’ve yet to hear a good reason not to. The Bosch standard battery charger shuts off right when the battery shows all 5 LEDs lit so I’m wondering what’s your indication to unplug it and your reason why. Today’s Li-on battery tech isn’t supposed to have any memory issues.

It is not a memory issue, it was a problem with nicad batteries , even nimh batteries are mostly resilient to that.

@Ravi Kempaiah is an expert in battery technology and he has several posts explaining in detail why you should not charge to 100 percent, you should take a look at those.

Short answer to your question is, including electric cars, these batteries will have the best cycle life when they are kept in between 20/25-80/85 percent, always charging to %100 will decrease the cycle life significantly. Every now and then you can charge it to full to balance them.

Off the bike I unplug it around 15 minutes after the 5th bar starts blinking this gives me roughly 85 percent(On the bike I have nyon and I can see the exact percentage so I don't need it).

 

[GBX77]

Disclaimer I am not an expert ,my understanding charge to 85-90% what's more important is if you charge to 100% to not let the battery sit un-used at full capacity for long periods of time .
Try to charge before you ride that way your battery is not sitting for long at full capacity and your less likely to return home on the other side of the spectrum of draining the battery too low. It can be difficult at times when charging with the Bosch charger not to hit the full mark ,for me when that occurs I try to get out on the bike within an hour to drain some of the battery down could even be a quick ride in Turbo with the lights on just to use up some of the power so the battery is not sitting at a full charge

 

[Dallant]

My completely uneducated guess is that Bosch would design their charger/battery combo to work together to charge to exactly the right level (whatever that is) before auto shutdown.
If I follow this 80% idea, since there are 5 bars on the battery and I wish to interfere, that I should unplug the charger right as the fourth bar changes over to the fifth bar. This would seem to be 80%.
Ive certainly heard this 80% idea before related to Toyota’s hybrid battery charging system. The difference is that we hybrid owners trust the hybrid‘s charging system to do what the battery designers intended.
My question really is, why do we not trust Bosch in this case? Is there any research to back this up?

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Dallant, take my motto:
"The life is too short to worry. Ride on!"
Be charging your battery to 100% and discharge it as much as you need for longer rides. Only charge to 60% for longer storage, for example during the Winter. (Full charging gives the benefit of balancing the cells).

P.S. You can keep the charger connected. These devices are smart enough and cannot overcharge the battery.

 

[rich c]

Been charging a 400 battery pack to 100% since Nov 2016, and a 500 pack to 100% since Feb 2017. I've never taken either of them to 0%. 3400 miles on the 400 pack, 4,200 miles on the 500 pack.

 

[Johnny]

Been charging a 400 battery pack to 100% since Nov 2016, and a 500 pack to 100% since Feb 2017. I've never taken either of them to 0%. 3400 miles on the 400 pack, 4,200 miles on the 500 pack.

Assuming that you do 30 miles per charge on average your batteries are in between 100-150 cycle it is not surprising that the packs have not degraded noticeably.

 

[Stiksandstones]

Only charge it to 100% when I need ever ounce of it to get home on my 30 mile ride.

 

[GBX77]

To add to Stefan
Do the best you can with what you have
Enjoy today ,Enjoy the ride
Most of the time fear is a liar and will steal your Joy

 

[Johnny]

My completely uneducated guess is that Bosch would design their charger/battery combo to work together to charge to exactly the right level (whatever that is) before auto shutdown.

No it can not , because there is no right level. When you stay in between 25-85 you are effectively using %60 capacity but prolonging battery life significantly. On the other hand if you need more range then you should charge the battery to full so that you maximize your range at the expense of cycle life.

Moreover the chargers come with Bosch (yamaha, shimano are also similar) are very basic chargers that are only capable of charging single chemistry, cell count and they are not adjustable. Better (and significantly more expensive) chargers have the option to charge the battery up to a threshold to prolong its cycle life.

If you want to educate yourself here is a write up.

https://electricbikereview.com/forums/threads/e-bike-battery-guide.24443/

 

[Dallant]

Dallant, take my motto:
"The life is too short to worry. Ride on!"
Be charging your battery to 100% and discharge it as much as you need for longer rides. Only charge to 60% for longer storage, for example during the Winter. (Full charging gives the benefit of balancing the cells).

P.S. You can keep the charger connected. These devices are smart enough and cannot overcharge the battery.

Trust me Stefan, I’m not worried about this. Just curious how we all are really dealing with this issue we all share. I have and will continue to charge till the charger shuts off and trust that Bosch has done their due diligence.
P.S. I will charge to about halfway before I put it down this winter.

 

[GuruUno]

Been charging a 400 battery pack to 100% since Nov 2016, and a 500 pack to 100% since Feb 2017. I've never taken either of them to 0%. 3400 miles on the 400 pack, 4,200 miles on the 500 pack.

Me too, whether I go for 10 mile ride or a 50 mile ride, I ALWAYS plug in, charge, full all the time, never had any issues.
Back many years ago, with an iZip E3 Peak, yes, different BMS and technology in that setup and I saw decreasing full capability (under 90%) after 1,000 miles.
So, I'm a believer that keep it full, never look back, look at the "cycles" and when the LBS does a diagnostic report. (with a Bosch system anyway)
Optionally, it's your choice, but given that the technology continues to improve, I'd think that if we had to worry, we'd be more stressed.
I think the magic is not ever going to zero.

 

[Stiksandstones]

Me too, whether I go for 10 mile ride or a 50 mile ride, I ALWAYS plug in, charge, full all the time, never had any issues.
Back many years ago, with an iZip E3 Peak, yes, different BMS and technology in that setup and I saw decreasing full capability (under 90%) after 1,000 miles.
So, I'm a believer that keep it full, never look back, look at the "cycles" and when the LBS does a diagnostic report. (with a Bosch system anyway)
Optionally, it's your choice, but given that the technology continues to improve, I'd think that if we had to worry, we'd be more stressed.
I think the magic is not ever going to zero.

I try to not do the FULL ZERO as well, as a rule, but my damn ride TO and FROM work, takes it to near zero or zero (depending on headwind) every time. If only that battery on my Domane+ HP was 585wh, 600, 700 like the Allant! I'd be in heaven.

 

[Dallant]

I try to not do the FULL ZERO as well, as a rule, but my damn ride TO and FROM work, takes it to near zero or zero (depending on headwind) every time. If only that battery on my Domane+ HP was 585wh, 600, 700 like the Allant! I'd be in heaven.

Can’t you get a 625 for the Domane+HP?
The lowest I’ve let mine get so far is 2 of 5.

 

[Stiksandstones]

Can’t you get a 625 for the Domane+HP?
The lowest I’ve let mine get so far is 2 of 5.

I don’t think so?? There is a spare battery option, but would love 625

 

[Dallant]

I don’t think so?? There is a spare battery option, but would love 625

Well, I’ve been looking into a second battery for my Allant+7 but would, AFAIK, require buying the battery from Bosch and the cover from Trek. Not sure yet how the whole battery thing works.

 

[Luv2ride]

I carry two extra batteries in my bag with no problem and always charge to 100%.
I live in Southern California so I don't deal with rain.
I think the Allant has the ability to add a second battery on the downtube.

 

[Alaskan]

I'm with Stefan. I want range and as much assist as the circumstances demand during the ride. So I charge fully.

However, I am scrupulous about not having my battery sit idle at 100% charge or letting it get below 20% unless it cannot be avoided. I make sure the battery is somewhere around 50-60% when I know I won't be riding for a while. When I know I will be going out for a ride, I try to charge it up fully just before departure.

I know this will not get maximum life out of the battery but it is doing most things and the things that are feasible. I want my bike to work for me, not the other way around.

Thus far with over 18,000 miles on various ebikes over the past 2.5 years my batteries have not noticeably deteriorated. I have three 500 watt power packs the newest of which is 2 years old. My 625 power tube is just a few months old at this point.

 

[Marci jo]

Same here, charge to at least 90% right before I go.
After the ride I charge to 80% or less, then let it sit overnight or whatever.
I want max range and tend to run in Turbo on the way home

 

[Dallant]

Same here, charge to at least 90% right before I go.
After the ride I charge to 80% or less, then let it sit overnight or whatever.
I want max range and tend to run in Turbo on the way home

Generally it’s pretty rare for me to use Turbo. Today was close to 100 degrees as I finished and the last two miles include the three biggest hills on my usual workout route. I used Turbo on every uphill inch!
Ive gone over 200 miles this month and it’s been a hot one!