Disappointing maiden ride with 500W ebike

[swissbike]

Oh no! We bought and e-bike but we are disappointed with our first real test ride. We live on a very steep hill, in a very steep area (Swiss Alps), and the bike doesn't seem to make it up the hill to our house. This is really disappointing!

I am trying to work out if there is a technical problem we can fix, or whether we have the wrong expectations, or whether we need to get fitter . I would love some tips!

The first thing I am wondering is whether the bike might be somehow geared for high speed on flat rather than torque to get up hills. There is only one gear at the front and it is fairly large. The motor says "BFCST 48V500W 700C(10)" and I have the impression that this has "planetary gears" internally that might also be replaceable? (Guessing!)

Any tips would be very welcome to help us get up and running (and up our hill!) and over our initial disappointment .

The bike is a Swiss model called "Allegro Speedbike" and here are some pictures:

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

Oh no! We bought and e-bike but we are disappointed with our first real test ride. We live on a very steep hill, in a very steep area (Swiss Alps), and the bike doesn't seem to make it up the hill to our house. This is really disappointing!

I am trying to work out if there is a technical problem we can fix, or whether we have the wrong expectations, or whether we need to get fitter . I would love some tips!

The first thing I am wondering is whether the bike might be somehow geared for high speed on flat rather than torque to get up hills. There is only one gear at the front and it is fairly large. The motor says "BFCST 48V500W 700C(10)" and I have the impression that this has "planetary gears" internally that might also be replaceable? (Guessing!)

Any tips would be very welcome to help us get up and running (and up our hill!) and over our initial disappointment .

The bike is a Swiss model called "Allegro Speedbike" and here are some pictures:

Battery voltage,
Tire PSI
Proper gearing

these are the things you want to look at. If all those things are right, then see if changing the assist levels help you at all.

At 48V, most geared motors have quite a bit of push.

 

[e-levity]

500W should be plenty of power, enough for 20% grades with proper gearing.

Most E-bikes come set up with gearing aimed toward higher speeds rather than climbing.
I couldn't find the gear ratios for your model on the Allegro site.
What size chainring does it have? What is the cassette cog range?
From the photo I'd guess about a 48t chainring and an 11-36 cassette.
It's easy to change both to achieve lower gearing.
A 42t chainring (12% lower gearing) should be low enough and will still allow you to pedal up to ~45kph.

 

[Barry S]

Oh no! We bought and e-bike but we are disappointed with our first real test ride. We live on a very steep hill, in a very steep area (Swiss Alps), and the bike doesn't seem to make it up the hill to our house. This is really disappointing!

I am trying to work out if there is a technical problem we can fix, or whether we have the wrong expectations, or whether we need to get fitter . I would love some tips!

The first thing I am wondering is whether the bike might be somehow geared for high speed on flat rather than torque to get up hills. There is only one gear at the front and it is fairly large. The motor says "BFCST 48V500W 700C(10)" and I have the impression that this has "planetary gears" internally that might also be replaceable? (Guessing!)

Any tips would be very welcome to help us get up and running (and up our hill!) and over our initial disappointment .

The bike is a Swiss model called "Allegro Speedbike" and here are some pictures:

View attachment 20063View attachment 20062

I could be wrong, but I think "BFCST 48V500W 700C(10)" translates as follows: BF = Bafang motor; CST = cassette gears; 48V = battery rating; 500W = motor rating; 700C = rim size; 10 = number of copper windings per pole. @Ravi Kempaiah offers some great advice. Also, how much weight on the bike (passenger + cargo)?

 

[J.R.]

Small ebike motors climb better spinning the cranks faster, while in a low gear and traveling a little slower.

Try climbing with the bike set in middle to higher PAS, bike gear set in first or second gear of ten and spin the cranks fast. Pedaling will be easy, the bike won't be going fast, but you should be able to climb.

 

[rich c]

The picture you show is called the e-speedbike comfort on their website. It is a 36v listed there.

 

[Mr. Coffee]

It looks like your bike is a hub-drive bike. My own experience is that hub drives bog down on the steepest hills. Jayvee's bike is a mid drive and they climb hills, especially steep hills, much better.

The access road to my home is about 3km and climbs 300m in that distance, but the last 0.25 km is much steeper (about 25 percent grade) and that combined with (1) usually being quite whipped by the time I get there; (2) the rough eroded road surface; (3) the hub drive on my bike usually means I bog down somewhere in that last 0.25km.

 

[Alex M]

Your motor is Chinese Bafang hub motor. Cost $150-200. Yes, there are nylon gears inside, they can be replaced if broken but I doubt you will find different size gears for this motor.

 

[Bruce Arnold]

Hub drive motors are typically more efficient at higher rpm's. So going faster before attacking the hill may help. In addition to the good suggestions already offered.

 

[swissbike]

I am overwhelmed by all these great answers. Thanks so much!!!

Let me follow up with some more newbie information if I may

I have only tested going up hill with PAS=9. I assumed this is "maximum assistance" i.e. the best choice for steep hills. Is that overly simplistic? How do you choose the best PAS (aside from trial and error, which is hard right now because it snowed last night!)

I believe that the specs I posted for the bike are correct even though they are different than on the allegro-bikes.ch website. Coop Bau und Hobby seem to have made major changes to the motor (48V) and the gears (only one at the front.) I am reading the motor specs directly off the bike itself.

Gearing... Just now our lowest gear does seem too high, I really struggle to turn the cranks going up hill with or without assist. Our goal would be to comfortably drive ~20-25km/h on flat road and beyond that our priority is hill climbing. Is our motor okay for that? and what kind of gearing would be appropriate? (We picked this bike not for the 45km/h max speed but for the 500W of grunt.)

I don't know the gradient of our road (and haven't found an easy way to measure) but people think twice about driving cars up it. However most hills around here are not so extreme and it would okay to push the last 200m if we have to .

EDIT: The total weight when testing is 65-75kg but we would love to be able to pull a Thule Chariot with some load (a stretch goal...)

 

[swissbike]

We bought the bike from a department store (Coop Bau und Hobby) and unfortunately they don't seem to have much specialist knowledge about bikes. I suppose we can contact the makers of the bike and ask who they recommend.

I take the point that for hill climbing it is important to get lower gearing with a front derailleur and/or a new cassette. The question I have is whether this is likely to turn this bike into a strong hill-climber or whether we should be thinking about replacing the motor or even the whole bike?

Climbing *steep* hills is really the thing that we care about and want to optimize for.

EDIT: I will estimate the hill gradient to be up to 20-25% here. On the steepest hills it is a fight even for mountain bikers.

 

[J.R.]

We bought the bike from a department store (Coop Bau und Hobby) and unfortunately they don't seem to have much specialist knowledge about bikes. I suppose we can contact the makers of the bike and ask who they recommend.

I take the point that for hill climbing it is important to get lower gearing with a front derailleur and/or a new cassette. The question I have is whether this is likely to turn this bike into a strong hill-climber or whether we should be thinking about replacing the motor or even the whole bike?

Climbing *steep* hills is really the thing that we care about and want to optimize for.

EDIT: I will estimate the hill gradient to be up to 20-25% here. On the steepest hills it is a fight even for mountain bikers.

I read the same review yesterday that JayVee noted and was certain this bike was a cadence sensing pedal assist. I stand by my advice, use a middle to higher PAS setting and spin faster in low bike gear. High setting on cadence sensing will always try to go max speed and not really give you more torque to get up hills. You might even try middle to low PAS. Note: speed and hills will seriously deplete the battery fast!

Most people need to take time to know what a new ebike can and cannot do. Even an experienced ebiker will need time to get to know the particular idiosyncrasies of a new bike. As they say, practice makes perfect. I believe with you testing, that bike is likely to do all you need it to do. I live on a rough hill, 3.5k long with 244 meter rise and in about 3-1/2 years I only overheated once. That was slogging through wet snow. That's rough service on these little motors.

Good luck! And have fun with it, ebikes are a blast!

 

[swissbike]

I called the support number now and they actually told me that it was a mistake to buy this bike. "What you bought is a Porsche but what you need is a tractor." They are going to see if they can help us with a trade-in. Fingers crossed!

Is there any easy way to measure gradients? I would like to be more specific. I have the feeling that when I say "steep" what I really mean is STEEEEP but I don't exactly know how to put that into numbers. Cars think twice before driving up our hill.

 

[TForan]

If you can, return it and buy a Mid drive. Mine levels the steepest hills around me.

 

[J.R.]

Is there any easy way to measure gradients?

This might do your hill:
http://veloroutes.org/hillgradecalculator/

 

[Mr. Coffee]

You can roughly measure gradients with a map or a GPS.

E.G. My access road is about 3km and gains 300m. So that is a 10 percent average grade. But a quick inspection (and running the road) shows that about a third of that distance is flat or very gentle, so it is easy to surmise that some sections must be much, much steeper.

One thing to think about with hub drives is that there are several ways to rate their power output. You can spec peak power output or continuous power. The marketing people for most e-bike companies prefer to use the higher peak number in their promotional literature. The upshot of this is that I've test ridden several hub drive bikes with motors rated between 250 and 500 watts and their hill-climbing capabilities seem to be about the same. So look at power output ratings skeptically.

Another thing is that the derailleurs on most e-bikes have a pretty limited range. The high gears aren't so high that you can easily engage the pedals and help the bike at high speeds and the low gears will not get you up the steepest hills.

Finally, when your e-bike is working hard the battery voltage tends to drop. Since voltage is part of the power equation that means that you can experience a noticeable loss of power when you need it most.

 

[swissbike]

Great tool!

The estimate that it provides is 26% gradient (steep) but only 27m total climb (short.) The road is not perfectly straight or even and so the peak gradient could be more than this.

This is the steep hill that leads up to our house. The rest of the region is also steep but not as extreme as this. The bike only needs to handle that steepness for a few minutes at a time.

 

[swissbike]

We have been offered a couple of trade-in opportunities. I would love some feedback!

The options are two Allegro e-mountainbikes, either the CrossTour MTB or the Invisible MTB, which are described at (Link Removed - No Longer Exists).

What do you reckon? Is either of these likely to handle our hills? Is either especially better than the other e.g. for Bafang vs AKM motor? Or should we be looking for a different make instead?

I am a little concerned that these each have 250W rear motors. Since what we care about is climbing hills perhaps we should be looking for a 500W mid-motor? I suppose that at the end of the day what matters is the torque and I don't know how to estimate that.

I also asked about pulling a trailer (Thule Chariot) and was told that this is unrealistic. Is this a basic fact about e-bikes? Or do other people ride pulling trailers with kids and/or goods to transport? On hills or only on the flat? (What's a realistic max gradient?)

Sorry for so many questions......!

 

[WilliamT]

I would keep your current bike over the new ones. While the mountain bikes offer better gearing, they don't have the motor you need.

Do you have an option to have your local bike shop install a different 2 or 3 ring crank set and front derailleur. It would be pretty easy to do and doesn't have any impact on the rear motor setup. I think your current motor is much better than what they are offering.

 

[rich c]

Can you ride a traditional bike up that hill? Electric assist bikes are not mopeds or motorcycles. Remember that 500 watts is less than 1 horsepower. A 1 horsepower tractor would probably not make it up the hill either. A trained cyclist can generate between 400 to 500 watts pushing hard up a steep grade. So again less than 1 horsepower. Maybe some helpful reading. http://www.ebikeschool.com/much-power-electric-bicycle-need/