Delite4/Superdelite carrier and range queries.

[MD99]

I was lucky enough to get a second-hand Supercharger 2 (with 2x500 Wh), and enjoying my first ebike. And enjoying the stuff in this forum .

However, I find the bottom bracket height is too low and I'm getting pedal strike - a mountain bike it is not. Good range though, I'm getting 180-200 km - flattish/rolling, 95% in Eco mode, no load.
So, as one possible alternative, I'm looking at the Delite4 or Superdelite (both GT with GX/Fox), but I have some queries on the carrier and range.

Carrier (standard). Looking for feedback on 3 things: Strength (20kg Load), stability, durability. In the past I've done quite a bit of touring with heavy panniers, and although interesting, the Delite carrier doesn't exactly look like a great design. I mention stability because of the cantilevered non-braced design, and the fact that it is very high because of the need for rear suspension clearance. Probably a lot of instability there.

Range. Not fussed about the Bosch smart system, but the Delite4 does have some nice design changes - like the front cables going directly into the frame rather than down through the top of the steerer tube.
It looks as though I'm looking for a minimum of 1000 Wh (see below.) The only way I can get that on the Delite4 is with the Powermore 250, but that is 1.6 kg through frame bottle mounts and I lose the framebag space. Any thoughts? (I have noticed on my Supercharger that the toptube rivnuts holding the 1.1 kg Abus lock are starting to loosen in the frame.) Loads of manufacturers have add-on batteries, but that doesn't mean they are a good thing.

Intended use: Normal local rides - 30-80 km.
Backcountry rides. Gravel roads, 4WD tracks, some single track. Have to lift over locked gates (legit access) etc. These things are bloody heavy and as I'm hitting 70, not sure I can do that by myself anymore. My 13 kg mountain bike yes, 30 kg e-bike, hmmm.
Tours. Week long travel with camping gear. Looking for range that could be 130 km with 2000 m climbing over 2-3 days with no charging.

BTW, for the same money, I could get a hugely better specced eMTB, but of course no load carrying ability.

 

[Ben J]

I'm getting pedal strike

You can get shorter cranks. A lot of recent research has shown that most people are using cranks that are too long anyway.

 

[MD99]

@Ben J. Agreed. However, the Supercharger has a BB height of 280 mm, the Delite4 330 mm unsagged (the same as my Timberjack.) Shorter cranks are not going to give that sort of difference. Ideas I went through included, could also put a longer fork in, perhaps with a mullet 29" wheel, and along with shorter cranks it would certainly improve things. It would also muck up the geometry though. In lots of ways, a hardtail is a better bike for what I want and the Supercharger is just fine. Just considering the options, unfortunately there is no perfect bike .

 

[sammcneill]

BTW, for the same money, I could get a hugely better specced eMTB, but of course no load carrying ability

You can get solutions for eMTB - I’m using the system from www.aeroe.com and have mounted it on my specialised Turbo Levo eMTB.
This is a full suspension bike and this racking system works:

No seat post bag so I can still use my dropper post. Aeroe racking system very versatile and I swap between my bikes.

This has a 750wh battery

Cheers

Sam

 

[MD99]

@sammcneill. Yes, I know of the Aeroe systems, but the engineer in me cringes every time I see that rear rack attached to the seat stays. Although all things are overdesigned to ensure safety, I'm not sure that frame designers allow for what is in effect a huge lever wiggling away in the middle of the stay. I'm not sure I could bring myself to do it, although my mate has one. That said, I've not read of any snapped stays - it would be somewhere on Reddit if it had happened. For a hardtail I think there are better solutions utilising the Old Man Mountain adaptors if necessary.

But never say never, as I'm not doing hard core mountain biking (more think of the Rainbow Road type stuff), and I do have a shortlist of eMTBs with high battery capacity .

 

[sammcneill]

@sammcneill. Yes, I know of the Aeroe systems, but the engineer in me cringes every time I see that rear rack attached to the seat stays. Although all things are overdesigned to ensure safety, I'm not sure that frame designers allow for what is in effect a huge lever wiggling away in the middle of the stay. I'm not sure I could bring myself to do it, although my mate has one. That said, I've not read of any snapped stays - it would be somewhere on Reddit if it had happened. For a hardtail I think there are better solutions utilising the Old Man Mountain adaptors if necessary.

But never say never, as I'm not doing hard core mountain biking (more think of the Rainbow Road type stuff), and I do have a shortlist of eMTBs with high battery capacity .

Oh you’re NZ based? Cool! A few of us on here now

 

[MD99]

So no feedback on the Delite standard carrier? Here is the sort of loading I'd like to be able to accommodate set up with 6 days of food. Without the frame bag of course.

 

[Jean-Paul B.]

Didi you look at this ?

 

[MD99]

Didi you look at this ?

Thanks Jean-Paul, I'd seen their other version, and for people that are staying in hotels, they sure have a lot of gear!
They were sponsored for the video, and there are a few other similar ones around by dealers, so I take the feedback with a pinch of salt. But it does allow us to see how the bike handles and it seems reasonable for a heavy bike, but they did say there was a lot of hike-a-bike - it was the Highland Way after all. It would be nice to see a completely independent opinion from someone that has had one for a while.
@sammcneill posted about a bloke who did some big trips in NZ (3000 & 1500 km) in this thread Delite in NZ. The info was linked to Facebook which I don't do, but not sure there was much more info there.

​

 

[Neville Welsh]

Thanks Jean-Paul, I'd seen their other version, and for people that are staying in hotels, they sure have a lot of gear!
They were sponsored for the video, and there are a few other similar ones around by dealers, so I take the feedback with a pinch of salt. But it does allow us to see how the bike handles and it seems reasonable for a heavy bike, but they did say there was a lot of hike-a-bike - it was the Highland Way after all. It would be nice to see a completely independent opinion from someone that has had one for a while.
@sammcneill posted about a bloke who did some big trips in NZ (3000 & 1500 km) in this thread Delite in NZ. The info was linked to Facebook which I don't do, but not sure there was much more info there.

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I hope it's alright if I reply to this old thread? I have a Superdelite with Fox suspension and apart from the odd pedal strike, the hight of the bottom bracket seems perfectly fine. The bike is used for daily commute as well as going bike touring - and it is rather impressive in that regard. We usually ride for a couple of days and a typical ride is from 10 to 15 miles (100 to 150 km). The bike is packed up to the limit with food, tent etc. and the total weight is about 150 kg -including myself
The rack does not flex in any noticable way and the bike is composed and sturdy on roads, "tractor roads", gravelroads etc. It's also reassuringly stable going fast - at least up to around 60 km/h.

Now, I have had to lift the bike over a few fallen logs when the satnav/gps has led me astray. It is heavy - especially as most of the weight is located towards the center and back of the bike. The "walk function" does help though and usually you don't have to wear yourself out. My mate has converted from e-bike to a Kona Sutra - which is a lovely bike, but the Superdelite really comes into its own in harsh terrain - even loaded up with all that gear. The low gearing of the Rohloff and traction offered by the suspension and Schwalbe tires makes easy work out of seemingly hopeless terrain. Ruts, slippery moss or wet stones - no problem at all.

The Kona is more for bike touring on asphalt and gravel roads, but the Superdelite can carry the same load and still perform in far rougher conditions. Also, the range is impressive. To even out the difference and strain, I mainly use the Eco level when riding with friends on "analogue" bikes. On the west coast of Norway where I live it's very hilly and fully loaded up I had 43% left when returning home after 11 miles (110 km). With the extra weight of the bike and in "Eco mode" the cadence, effort and speed seemed fairly similar to my mate on the Kona. I could not achieve his top speed though.

Most of my friends have gone for Ortlieb panniers and they seem to be of very good quality. I chose Vaude as I think their outside pocket on the panniers is a neater solution. I'm very happy with them.

 

[MD99]

That's a very useful reply Neville, and no, not too late.

Before I take up some of your other info, can I just ask you about your mileage. As you live in Norway I assume that your km is correct and your miles incorrect? km = miles*1.6, but you have a factor of 10 difference. I just wish the rest of the world would get into the metric system.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

I just wish the rest of the world would get into the metric system.

My 4th wildest dream. (Sorry, not at liberty to divulge the first three — or the next 4 for that matter. But the 9th involves... Well, not that one, either.)

 

[Neville Welsh]

That's a very useful reply Neville, and no, not too late.

Before I take up some of your other info, can I just ask you about your mileage. As you live in Norway I assume that your km is correct and your miles incorrect? km = miles*1.6, but you have a factor of 10 difference. I just wish the rest of the world would get into the metric system.

Thanks It's why I felt the need to explain "10 to 15 miles (100 to 150 km)". A mile in Norway/Scandinavia equals 10 km. It gets confusing....as you would use Km when talking about speed but usually not the distance (if the distance is greater than a few km). If you drive a car from Oslo to Bergen you would say that the average speed was 80 km/h, but the distance would be described as 50 mil (miles).

Scandinavian mile - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[MD99]

A mile in Norway/Scandinavia equals 10 km.

Well I never! If you hadn't provided the link, I would have thought you were pulling my leg. The SI has a lot going for it, so probably best it we stick with km.

Good to hear that the rack is stable, and you are carrying quite a load there. I notice they have increased the carrier loading on the Superdelite5 from 20 - 27 kg, so it should be even more stable for a given load. As the Superdelite5 is now on their website it is worth putting it on the comparison list.

I've actually found the gearing on my Supercharger2 (similar to the Superdelite) quite high in the lowest gear and would be looking to change it. I guess it depends how much support is drawn from the motor, but would be looking to get closer to the gearing on the R&M mountain versions.

Looking at the Superdelite5, they do not offer the 140 mm Fox forks (yet?), but stick with the 120 mm. But the Superdelite5 bottom bracket is much higher in their geometry specs, and looking at the photos, this is mainly due to the redesign of the rear swingarm. It brings the BB clearance pretty close to the older Superdelite with the 140 mm Fox fork upgrade. Nice to hear that your suspension works well with that loading. I imagine the rear shock takes a hammering, but that is just something that has to be accepted on a full sus bike.

Good to see you are getting a reasonable mileage (ha!), it seems pretty similar to my Supercharger2. Loaded, I'd expect around 180 km, but would like to get more - perhaps in another 15 years we will.

Thanks for the feedback

 

[Stefan Mikes]

A mile in Norway/Scandinavia equals 10 km.

On my first car road trip on business to Sweden and Norway I asked my host: "How far is it from Malmö to Helsingborg?" to which the host replied "Around 6 miles" so I thought it would be some 10 kilometres. How wrong I was!

Don't you guys define the fuel consumption of the fuels as litres per mile?

 

[Neville Welsh]

On my first car road trip on business to Sweden and Norway I asked my host: "How far is it from Malmö to Helsingborg?" to which the host replied "Around 6 miles" so I thought it would be some 10 kilometres. How wrong I was!

Don't you guys define the fuel consumption of the fuels as litres per mile?

Ah yes, I can imagine the confusion about a mile being....not a mile hehe And, we do indeed measure fuel consumption as litres per mile - the "Scandinavian way"