Dail-E Grinder

[Ravi Kempaiah]

I'm not sure if this bike elicits any interest or not but if there are E-bike maniacs like me out there, they might appreciate the beauty of this bike and what it offers.

This is going to be my personal commuter machine starting October this year.

Ever since my 5100 mile ride on the ST2-S, I have been hunting a bike with endurance geometry + drop bars. Every time, I look at a S-pedelec with a rigid fork, it reminds me of the pain I experienced over 1000's of miles. It's brutal.

So, I had to persuade the BULLS USA folks to bring this to the US market. It's called Dail-E Grinder. Slated for early 2017 release.

It's clearly designed by someone who rides bikes day in and day out and knows what they are talking about. In my mind this is a a great commuter because it has Endurance geometry with 3" rise compared to race geometry. AND it has a lockable suspension fork for even more comfort. Drop bars are welcome on an E-bike.






Black Specialized is designed for endurance and the red one has race oriented geometry.



First of all, they selected 7005 Aluminum frame instead of the 6061, for high strength.
It's a S-pedelec with Bosch performance Speed motor. I am not a big fan of Bosch system because it lacks the punch needed for effective commuting. It may be great for mountain biking but it is little sluggish compared to ST2's speed capabilities. But, I have been riding a Haibike Super Race and it's awesome. I average 23mph and get 40 mile range on a 400 Whr battery. That is because it is 40lbs.

When coupled with a light frame and an agile rider, the Bosch Speed engine delivers. This bike with a rack, fenders and suspension fork and 500whr battery is 48lbs total, which I think is great.

It's the details that matter:

RockShox Air suspension for comfort. It's the same fork you find on Specialized Turbo X.



Shimano Ultegra Di2 electronic shifter. It was as precise as the XTR Di2 on the ST2-S. Love it. Road riders know the joy of riding a bike with Ultegra Di2 shifter.



Supernova M99 pure + lights that put out 1100 lumens. The M99 pro puts out 1600 lumens in high beam but this one very close and doesn't consume as much power.



Carbon wheels that are light setup and tubeless compatible. Also, the tires are top of the line Schwalbe Marathon Supreme that can be run tubeless. 350g less than the Marathons and has 10W less rolling resistance than the Marathons. Also, the bike comes with Shimano XT hubs and Shimano XT brakes. Awesome.



The battery is only 500Whr.
One of the requirements for RAAM is being able to ride 400 miles in a day. As part of my training for RAAM, a 400 mile ride will be done on my Dail-E grinder. So, that's going to be fun.

Kisses to the designer of this beautiful bike

Ciao
Ravi

 

[Cameron Newland]

Now THAT is a beautiful and practical commuter! I've been looking for something like this for quite some time. Do you know what the MSRP on this is going to be?

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

Now THAT is a beautiful and practical commuter! I've been looking for something like this for quite some time. Do you know what the MSRP on this is going to be?

The MSRP on this one is pretty steep $5990. There is another model called E2 Street that comes with the same Bosch Speed engine and 500Whr battery , priced at $3990.

 

[Ann M.]

Lockable suspension is a performance adjustment for offroad riding, not comfort. Drop handlebars kill your neck and were designed for somewhat aerodynamic function but not long distance riding; I know the difference as a former road racer with 30+ years as a bike commuter and regular 100+ mile rides. Most folks just ride on the top of the drop handlebars as a commuter which is the way the Bulls commuter is set up, so why bother? Add some different bar ends to allow for a bit more flexibility in body position and hand/wrist comfort that can also allow you to pull closer to the stem and lean your forearms on the bar; very efficient, supports body weight and is more aerodynamic. That's what triathlete riders have done for years to reach both comfort and performance.

What the Bulls design does is attractive and the 3" rise on their 'commuter' is a help but doesn't solve the issues that many regular riders have with uncomfortable flat bars & drop bars. It's not about style, it has t0 do with function and the handlebar is one place where more energy should be put on design.

It does seem that Brose is finally getting its motor design issues worked out for better reliability which is critical for anyone looking to invest a big chunk of $$ in a daily commuter. No matter what, training for RAAM requires special training, attention to nutrition and more than just more batteries and I applaud anyone willing to take on that challenge.

 

[flymeaway]

The MSRP on this one is pretty steep $5990

Yikes!

Court J.

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

Lockable suspension is a performance adjustment for offroad riding, not comfort. Drop handlebars kill your neck and were designed for somewhat aerodynamic function but not long distance riding; I know the difference as a former road racer with 30+ years as a bike commuter and regular 100+ mile rides. Most folks just ride on the top of the drop handlebars as a commuter which is the way the Bulls commuter is set up, so why bother? Add some different bar ends to allow for a bit more flexibility in body position and hand/wrist comfort that can also allow you to pull closer to the stem and lean your forearms on the bar; very efficient, supports body weight and is more aerodynamic. That's what triathlete riders have done for years to reach both comfort and performance.

What the Bulls design does is attractive and the 3" rise on their 'commuter' is a help but doesn't solve the issues that many regular riders have with uncomfortable flat bars & drop bars. It's not about style, it has t0 do with function and the handlebar is one place where more energy should be put on design.

It does seem that Brose is finally getting its motor design issues worked out for better reliability which is critical for anyone looking to invest a big chunk of $$ in a daily commuter. No matter what, training for RAAM requires special training, attention to nutrition and more than just more batteries and I applaud anyone willing to take on that challenge.

Ann,
Appreciate your input here. Good to see another road biker turned E-bike enthusiast here.
This bike is clearly not designed for aging baby boomers for comfort oriented E-bikes.

The design of this product was based on a an extremely popular product in EU called Daily Grinder (W/o E assist).

(Link Removed - No Longer Exists)

I spent half an hour on this bike and really enjoyed it. Because of the suspension, it has much higher stem height/angle than most road bikes.

Regarding the neck issue, I have spent sometime educating myself regarding the possible neck problems. Typical case includes Shermer's neck.
Unless one is riding a bike more than 10-12 hours everyday, this problem easily avoidable. If you're looking for efficiency, dropbars + aero bar combo wins hands down.
I had read this article but decided to go with riser bar for my tour. I regret that decision very much. For any long distance ride, the versatility of drop bars just can't be denied.

Also, this bike comes with the Bosch speed drive, not the Brose drive.

 

[Bike_On]

Ann,
Appreciate your input here. Good to see another road biker turned E-bike enthusiast here.
This bike is clearly not designed for aging baby boomers for comfort oriented E-bikes.

The design of this product was based on a an extremely popular product in EU called Daily Grinder (W/o E assist).

(Link Removed - No Longer Exists)

I spent half an hour on this bike and really enjoyed it. Because of the suspension, it has much higher stem height/angle than most road bikes.

Regarding the neck issue, I have spent sometime educating myself regarding the possible neck problems. Typical case includes Shermer's neck.
Unless one is riding a bike more than 10-12 hours everyday, this problem easily avoidable. If you're looking for efficiency, dropbars + aero bar combo wins hands down.
I had read this article but decided to go with riser bar for my tour. I regret that decision very much. For any long distance ride, the versatility of drop bars just can't be denied.

Also, this bike comes with the Bosch speed drive, not the Brose drive.

Ravi,

Having ridden several thousand miles on a drop bar/Falco combo, I would concur that the road style drop bar offers much needed efficiency and comfort options for wrist. For aging boomers, you have a good point that this position is more aggressive and less friendly.

I hear the pain in your words about a non-suspension straight bar, long distance effect at high speeds. It doesn't work if one gets hard core.

Cudos on this build. I do think the Bosch is a bit under powered for a RAAM attempt. Easy to get burned out. A BBHD 1000W with 900+Whrs would allow for better recovery on tough days and still cover pavement, IMO. Add a titanium or steel frame for more softness...save $2000.

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

This picture and description reminded me of the Dail-E Grinder.
His additions = Supernova E6 lights, drop bars, aero/carbon wheels, RockShox Paragon etc are all standard equipments on the Dail-E and some of those are even better sepc'd.

Employee bikes: XM700+ edition.
This is Global Service Brand Manager Royce Breckon's crazy electric commuter. It started it's life as your typical XM700+ and was eventually built to be a second vehicle for commuting in any weather. Royce regularly commutes 12 months out of the year with his laptop, lunch, clothes, and whatever else he needs for the day. He averages 25+mph and rides 19 miles each way.

Rad ride add-ons: (Shimano R785 hydraulic braking system, 11sp Alfine Di2 Internally Geared Hub, Aeolus 5 Disc front wheel)


(Link Removed - No Longer Exists)

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

I have been testing the Haibike Trekking S Rx and Dail-E grinder.
The agility and comfort on the grinder is def better. Had an issue with the Di2 but it was quickly resolved. Just a great riding experience!

 

[BurbManDan]

Ravi,

Gotta say the Dail-E grinder looks like a very appealing config. My dream would be add the Bosch dual battery and swap the Di2 for a Gates belt drive + Rohloff.

Everything else looks like a great config for my daily (72 mile round trip) grind.

Still for RAAM I'd leave the ebike at home and ride pure pedal power. Riding 400 miles a day would mean carrying spare batteries, chargers, and so much gear I just can't see the electric being a good trade-off. Unless just to prove it's possible.

BTW, is Bulls actually going to sell this stateside in 2017? With well over 20k miles on my current bike, I'll likely be ready to replace it next year.

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

Ravi,

Gotta say the Dail-E grinder looks like a very appealing config. My dream would be add the Bosch dual battery and swap the Di2 for a Gates belt drive + Rohloff.

Everything else looks like a great config for my daily (72 mile round trip) grind.

Still for RAAM I'd leave the ebike at home and ride pure pedal power. Riding 400 miles a day would mean carrying spare batteries, chargers, and so much gear I just can't see the electric being a good trade-off. Unless just to prove it's possible.

BTW, is Bulls actually going to sell this stateside in 2017? With well over 20k miles on my current bike, I'll likely be ready to replace it next year.

@BurbManDan

72 mile round trip commute!! I'm super impressed!
Where do you commute and what bike are you using? I am very curious.

Re: the Grinder, it's a sweet bike for sure. For sure I will need extra batteries and lots of prep work for a 400 mile ride but should be doable.
I recently picked up Quartz Disc from BH for my RAAM training.

As a co-owner of the E-bike store, I will be happy to setup you with a Bosch dual battery and Rohlhoff setup.

 

[JRA]

Just curious Ravi what was your wh/mi average on that impressive 5100 mile ride?

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

Just curious Ravi what was your wh/mi average on that impressive 5100 mile ride?

Hi @JRA ,
It's around 16.5 Whr/mile.

 

[Trail Cruiser]

Hi @JRA ,
It's around 16.5 Whr/mile.

Were you using the standard (814 wh) 48v 17ah battery? 49-50 miles per charge is not bad at all. What was your usual speed on the flat road?

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

Where you using the standard (814 wh) 48v 17ah battery? 49-50 miles per charge is not bad at all. What was your usual speed on the flat road?

I think my average speed for the entire 5100 mile was something like 23mph.

 

[BurbManDan]

@Ravi Kempaiah

My commute is from north Denver suburbs to south Denver suburbs. I am fortunate that the bulk of it is multi-use paths separated from automotive infrastructure, which makes it possible to do this commute safely. Otherwise, I would not do it since traffic in Denver, like most US cities, is insane, and very bike unfriendly. But I digress... Because the paths are built mostly along rivers, the elevation profile is bathtub shaped, or as flat as a route in Colorado can be, with less than 1000 foot elevation gain both ways.

For the past two years of I've been riding a Felt nineE, setup with a rack, fenders and fat Schwalbwe Marathons to make it more optimized for pavement commuting. After about 3 months, I began using a speed kit, but after about a year and some epic wet weather in Denver, the motor and battery died. It was replaced with a legitimate speed motor and same 400 wh battery. This configuration usually gives enough range on low assist for each direction (except in windy or cold weather), so I recharge at work during the day. I typically average about 21 mph, which is pretty hard work on low assist with a laptop, clothes, and kit.

The bike has been great, and I really appreciate the refinement of the Bosch motor, and the mid-drive design. However, maintenance on the chain drive requires constant work since I log 350+ miles most weeks. I like the mid-drive because it keeps other parts like wheels non-electric, so I can replace bent rims and worn out hubs, and have a second wheelset for studded snow tires, without the added cost of a second motor.

I think a drop bar configuration would give some added hand positions for comfort, and a belt drive and IGH would allow me to not have to do a tuneup every weekend. However, the loss of efficiency with a belt configuration would require additional battery capacity, and I would like to have more juice on tap to run higher assist levels and push my commute time down, since this routine has me on the bike for 3.5 - 4 hours five days a week. I'm excited by some of the new bike configurations I've been seeing for 2017, like the Grinder, and the Riese & Müller Charger GX Rohloff HS. Also, although I haven't seen anything official, Felt may have a belt drive, dual-battery bike in the works.

 

[Adam@BULLSeBIKES]

Ravi,

Gotta say the Dail-E grinder looks like a very appealing config. My dream would be add the Bosch dual battery and swap the Di2 for a Gates belt drive + Rohloff.

Everything else looks like a great config for my daily (72 mile round trip) grind.

Still for RAAM I'd leave the ebike at home and ride pure pedal power. Riding 400 miles a day would mean carrying spare batteries, chargers, and so much gear I just can't see the electric being a good trade-off. Unless just to prove it's possible.

BTW, is Bulls actually going to sell this stateside in 2017? With well over 20k miles on my current bike, I'll likely be ready to replace it next year.

We are expecting the Dail-E Grinder sometime in March 2017

 

[Rgrtitan]

@Ravi Kempaiah , I really enjoy your posts and videos. I'm looking at the Bulls Six50 e2 Street as a cheaper alternative commuter to the Dail-E Grinder. With your experience w/ the ST2 S and the Dail-e Grinder, what are your observations on the advantages and disadvantages of both?

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

@Ravi Kempaiah , I really enjoy your posts and videos. I'm looking at the Bulls Six50 e2 Street as a cheaper alternative commuter to the Dail-E Grinder. With your experience w/ the ST2 S and the Dail-e Grinder, what are your observations on the advantages and disadvantages of both?

Happy to share my experience:

ST2 or ST2-S

Having put 20,000+ miles on this platform and many other bikes, I am always impressed by the quiet, solid and smooth drive feeling of the ST2.
If your commute involves long stretches of roads, ST2 will excel at it. It shines in the 23-26mph cruise zone. The range is massive and if your roads are in fairly good condition, then you will be very pleased with the whole experience.
The downside is the weight. It's like driving a Escalade SUV. It has its own inertia but once you get over it, it works fine. It's not super agile like 45lbs bike. If your commute involves a lot of stop-go traffic, you will find the lighter bikes are better.

Dail-E Grinder or Six50 E street

The Dail-E is light, fast and packs a lot of good componentry. BULLS recently reduced the price points on all their bikes, so that's a bonus. The Dail-E is light and makes it perfect for stop-go traffic and you can carry it up 10 stairs without much worry.
The Six50 E2 is a very nice commuter but any Bosch system needs more rider involvement and proper shifting technique to get the most out of it. It will also make you a better cyclist (if you not one already).
With a 500Whr battery, you can easily get 30-35 miles of range.
The componentry is decent. You may want to change the chainring from 15T to 20T (helps in maintaining higher top speed) and change the lights to Supernova M99 (makes a lot of difference). The stock front lights are inadequate. But, the brakes are excellent. The wheels are great and have never heard of people breaking spokes that you hear on some cheaper hub motor bikes.
The forks are heavy but do basic job in mitigating the effect of road imperfections. But, other than that, I can't think of any major negatives.

Overall, they are all very good quality bikes. If you have a dealer willing to back you up, you have really nothing major to worry about.

 

[Rgrtitan]

@Ravi Kempaiah thanks for the great input. I decided on the Six50 E2, special ordered at the LBS and ordered a bodyfloat seatpost. The Supernova looks awesome but will have to wait on that for now.

Thanks for the suggestion on changing the front chainring to a 20T, that's definitely do-able!