Customer Service lags, but they finally responded

[The duke]

Edit: as of March 14, M2S has responded to all my questions and I'm satisfied. It took them over a week, but the answers came. They said they are swamped.....I have no doubt they run a small staff, but I'm prepared to place an order and expect the best.


Previous original post:
I'm seriously interested in buying an All Terrain R750 from M2S but am completely unable to get in touch with anyone to get any questions answered. I once got someone on the phone who knew nothing. My emails over a week have gone unanswered. It's so sad when you like the look of a product, like the price point, but there's absolutely no customer service. If there were ever a red flag, this is it.

I've had a few people tell me that all M2S does is market a brand name, then buy chinese made, generic bicycle frames in bulk, put their name on them and sell them. I've heard that Alibaba and other chinese sites sell almost identical bikes at 50% of the cost. And I've heard that if an american bike 'manufacturer' doesnt have customer service, then they've really got nothing. Really sad to say this is what my experience has been

 

[rich c]

You seem new to the industry. Your experience is very common and business as usual for many small companies. They don't carry a large staff, nor a customer service department. They are not what many consider a conventional business. It's a few people sitting in a warehouse and place an order for Chinese bikes. Manufacturing has very little to do with this business and is not usually mentioned in the same sentence with small ebike companies. That's why the bikes are cheap. If you want first rate customer service, don't shop by price.

 

[ebikemom]

Ebike websites have nice headings like "ebikes" and "service" and "warranty"... and those latter two headings imply that there is something going on besides a webpage.

So, how do we know if it's a pretty page put up by a guy who bought a container of bikes and has no service department, or if it is a company that can stand behind its product?

You, @The duke are onto something--you are calling, emailing, and trying to reach real people. Some companies are super attentive to buyers but then ignore folks later, but you've found that folks at the company-of-your-interest are really interested only in customers who will click-and-buy. I agree with you that that's a red flag. And, fortunately there are so many options out there from companies who will answer their phone and email and who will support their products.

I hope you find a great bike! Let us know what you get and how you like it, and if you ever need after-market support, you can tell us about that, too!

 

[Deleted member 4210]

I'm seriously interested in buying an All Terrain R750 from M2S but am completely unable to get in touch with anyone to get any questions answered. I once got someone on the phone who knew nothing. My emails over a week have gone unanswered. It's so sad when you like the look of a product, like the price point, but there's absolutely no customer service. If there were ever a red flag, this is it.

I've had a few people tell me that all M2S does is market a brand name, then buy chinese made, generic bicycle frames in bulk, put their name on them and sell them. I've heard that Alibaba and other chinese sites sell almost identical bikes at 50% of the cost. And I've heard that if an american bike 'manufacturer' doesnt have customer service, then they've really got nothing. Really sad to say this is what my experience has been

You are pretty close on your understanding of them. Essentially they are an importer. You certainly could buy nearly the same ebike on Alibaba. Except if you buy just one, and the Chinese firm allows that, then you would likely need to get it air freighted, which virtually doubles the price. What M2S is doing is pre-orders, and once they get enough, they will order a shipping container of ebikes. That way the freight per ebike is rather low, going by sea, and the customs fees, and freight-forwarder fees, etc. are spread across a number of ebikes. So instead of a $600 to $800 charge for air freight, it probably only adds about $30 to $60 per ebike. If they answered their phones and emails promptly, and then also stocked all the parts, its possibly a way to get an ebike at a bit lower cost. With the chinese firm they chose, they can pick out what spec of components they want on them, and paint color (to some extent), and battery size and brand, etc. Pretty much anyone here in the US could do this too. They aren't the first ones, and wont be the last ones.

They have not changed their prices from before the tariffs, so its a bit perplexing how they might be getting away with not charging the 25% tariff, because their margins were probably not much more than 40% to begin with, based on their price points.

It would be my guess there is less than 5 people involved at their operation, and maybe the owner is the only one who is full time ? I recall a few years back , he tried funding the first container batch via kickstarter or indiegogo. Its interesting how people attempt to get away with portraying these chinese ebikes as 'new' or something they 'designed.' the frames are all knock offs, and you can easily find 10 to 15 firms having essentially the same frame, and components.

Most of the frame styles offered by M2S, appear to be closest to that of the ones offered by ZHEJIANG KAIYI NEW MATERIAL TECHNOLOGY CO. They are on Alibaba.

For a firm like this, the ONLY thing it has for differentiation (at least if it wants to stay in business) would be the ultimate in customer service. i.e. Super fast response via email, and always answer the phone. and then super responsiveness to any issue. If they don't have that, then its probably not going to stay around long, as the barriers to entry in something like this, are just too low, and too easy for anyone to pull off. Maybe he started out that way, but then slowly got away from that or could not keep it up. it can burn you out, if you dont have the right team and business structure to sustain. Advertising and overhead of more staff to keep up gets very costly.

 

[tomjasz]

"warranty"

I suggest people search for the warranty. If none, run. But some like this big reseller below stink. You depend on good will and mood.

“You are saving a lot of money by buying direct from the manufacturer, but it does have its drawbacks. If you are the person who requires a lot of mechanical help and support we suggest you buy your ebike from a local ebike shop.”
That’s on bikes, on kits and parts, “This site and the materials and products on this site are provided "as is" and without warranties of any kind, whether express or implied.”

Funny thing is they are no less than a half dozen other sellers if you calculate the shipping and final costs.

There are a few China companies like BTN, Kevin Fang, that can be trusted and have a minor USA presence.

 

[Rob Bay]

R750 is a decent bike. I'm sure M2S focuses their attention to paid customers. I have had good experiences in communication with M2S. I got many quotes on Alibaba and Ali Express where duties, taxes and shipping will pretty much double the advertised price on there. You would then be dealing with possible warranty issues with a company which is 10k miles away. M2S handles warranty issues and repair parts directly. They seem to be further expanding their product line. 1300 miles so far on the R750 I have and I will probably put 5K a year on it.

 

[The duke]

You seem new to the industry. Your experience is very common and business as usual for many small companies. They don't carry a large staff, nor a customer service department. They are not what many consider a conventional business. It's a few people sitting in a warehouse and place an order for Chinese bikes. Manufacturing has very little to do with this business and is not usually mentioned in the same sentence with small ebike companies. That's why the bikes are cheap. If you want first rate customer service, don't shop by price.

If only we all had the option to go full Cadillac, life would be a lot easier. I understand I'm basically buying Chinese, but I don't discount the value of a good middle man. A lot of people seem happy with their M2S bikes....I'm just having a hard time feeling the faith in them after what I experienced.

 

[harryS]

I thought BTN was a drop shipper, Thomas. Well they would mean they have a lot of inventory stateside already.

 

[tomjasz]

I thought BTN was a drop shipper, Thomas. Well they would mean they have a lot of inventory stateside already.

Kevin has developed a line of bikes. I haven't had any experience where I could call him a drop shipper. My friend received a few of his bikes, in N California, as a favor to hold for his taking to the last bike show in Reno. I believe he may have a relationship on some level to sort an issue with RPE in Las Vegas. Everything ever ordered came from BTN. I'm in the process of getting the newer Reention cases that EM3ev uses to do a comparison with Hailong cases. Then I found this, we don't sell bikes so I paid little attention.

"As a global electric bike china manufacture, we aim to offer the electric bikes to overseas customer value. earlier of 2017, we have been open the overseas warehouse for local customer broken parts after-sale service(some place can repair locally).

Now we have complete electric bikes in Las Vegas, USA, so USA/CANADA customer/shops can get the electric bike from our local warehouse directly, it means the bikes from factory to your hand directly.

that will help our customers more competitive in the market with good products, here is the bike which we have in US now, take a look of the current models: "

 

[harryS]

There's a forum member with BTN in his screen name that has been "informing" us about drop ship capabilities. In the camera world, it's a very viable delivery scheme, but it has wiped out independent camera shops, along with the move to smart phone cameras. I'm a legacy photographer though, and there's nothing like a good fast lens. Costs as much or than an ebike battery for sure. Pretty much no need for hand holding or service with cameras. They always work til you drop them.

 

[tomjasz]

Sure enough Harry! Right again!

 

[bugnut]

I'm seriously interested in buying an All Terrain R750 from M2S but am completely unable to get in touch with anyone to get any questions answered. I once got someone on the phone who knew nothing. My emails over a week have gone unanswered. It's so sad when you like the look of a product, like the price point, but there's absolutely no customer service. If there were ever a red flag, this is it.

I've had a few people tell me that all M2S does is market a brand name, then buy chinese made, generic bicycle frames in bulk, put their name on them and sell them. I've heard that Alibaba and other chinese sites sell almost identical bikes at 50% of the cost. And I've heard that if an american bike 'manufacturer' doesnt have customer service, then they've really got nothing. Really sad to say this is what my experience has been

I to was very interested in the M2S line of ebikes. I have been researching bikes for months now. At this point I am about to pull the trigger on a FREY bike. I just need to figure out being 6'2"what size I would need. They seem to have great parts and customer service. But the purchase is through Alibaba and the bikes are coming direct from China.

http://www.frey.bike/

And this is a 46 page thread discussing FREY bikes and the support given by them.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=91035&start=1125

Good luck in you search

 

[rich c]

If only we all had the option to go full Cadillac, life would be a lot easier. I understand I'm basically buying Chinese, but I don't discount the value of a good middle man. A lot of people seem happy with their M2S bikes....I'm just having a hard time feeling the faith in them after what I experienced.

There is a ton of options between from personal import from Alibaba to your term of Full Cadillac. Look at Rad bikes for 1. $1,500 Chinese bikes and owners rave about the customer service for one option.

 

[Fsosa]

I'm seriously interested in buying an All Terrain R750 from M2S but am completely unable to get in touch with anyone to get any questions answered. I once got someone on the phone who knew nothing. My emails over a week have gone unanswered. It's so sad when you like the look of a product, like the price point, but there's absolutely no customer service. If there were ever a red flag, this is it.

I've had a few people tell me that all M2S does is market a brand name, then buy chinese made, generic bicycle frames in bulk, put their name on them and sell them. I've heard that Alibaba and other chinese sites sell almost identical bikes at 50% of the cost. And I've heard that if an american bike 'manufacturer' doesnt have customer service, then they've really got nothing. Really sad to say this is what my experience has been

Problems. M2s carbon mid drive

Great bike for 220 miles. Commutes to work daily. Then the motor shifted position. Went to website found a video on Vimeo about a screw backing itself out and allowing the motor to turn. I turned the motor back and applied lock tight as instructed on the video. One week later the bike would not detect Cessation of peddling and would continue to pedal until the brakes where applied. I figured a wire broke on the motor rotation. Took it to a bike shop. After three months they said m2s never responded to calls or emails. So I guess they went belly up. Does anybody have any idea where I can fix this bike without sending it back to China. I understand that it has a bofeili motor and it’s maybe similar to eprodigy.

 

[Fsosa]

Problems. M2s carbon mid drive

Great bike for 220 miles. Commutes to work daily. Then the motor shifted position. Went to website found a video on Vimeo about a screw backing itself out and allowing the motor to turn. I turned the motor back and applied lock tight as instructed on the video. One week later the bike would not detect Cessation of peddling and would continue to pedal until the brakes where applied. I figured a wire broke on the motor rotation. Took it to a bike shop. After three months they said m2s never responded to calls or emails. So I guess they went belly up. Does anybody have any idea where I can fix this bike without sending it back to China. I understand that it has a bofeili motor and it’s maybe similar to eprodigy.

A sparse website that displays the motor is https://flx.bike/products/bofeili-mid-drive-motor-dz-multi

 

[The duke]

Problems. M2s carbon mid drive

Great bike for 220 miles. Commutes to work daily. Then the motor shifted position. Went to website found a video on Vimeo about a screw backing itself out and allowing the motor to turn. I turned the motor back and applied lock tight as instructed on the video. One week later the bike would not detect Cessation of peddling and would continue to pedal until the brakes where applied. I figured a wire broke on the motor rotation. Took it to a bike shop. After three months they said m2s never responded to calls or emails. So I guess they went belly up. Does anybody have any idea where I can fix this bike without sending it back to China. I understand that it has a bofeili motor and it’s maybe similar to eprodigy.

This is a good case study on dealing with chinese bicycle resellers. Could the bike shop fix it on their own? If you paid for the bike with a credit card, could you keep a receipt for the repairs and try to get that money back? I noticed they have a video taking responsibility for the problem and even saying they're willing to pay.

 

[The duke]

I want to update this thread. After a week of silence, M2S responded to my emails with answers to all my questions. They apologized for being swamped. I'm satisfied with everything they told me and im planning to place my order for an All Terrain fat bike. Hope all continues smoothly