Current Specialized app sometimes fails to record rider power on Vado SL 5.0

[Jeremy McCreary]

My beautiful Vado SL 5.0 has generally worked quite well with the current (black icon) Specialized app (v. 1.34.0) since purchase 3 months ago.

But 5 times now — and for no apparent reason — the app has failed to record rider power (Pr).

Toggling the bike off and back on doesn't help. Plausible real-time Pr values show on the Mastermind TCU the whole ride, but the Pr field on my app screen shows only "- -" when this happens. I conclude that the fault lies with the app, not the underlying sensors.

The Pr recording failures affect all Pr-related data including calories burned. But all other app-reported data records and displays properly. Ring any bells?

Last time this happened, I tried something new: I stopped and then resumed the recording 6 mi into the ride without finishing the ride in the app. As you can see from the app's ride analysis, Pr recorded normally thereafter.

After finishing the ride in the app, I got the usual Pr summary — presumably with the first 6 miles excluded.

But unlike previous occurrences, the app wouldn't display the usual assist mode pie chart this time. (Example from an unaffected ride.)

Would appreciate any insights before taking the bike in next week. Dealer had none over the phone but wants to run some diagnostics and reflash the firmware. He assures me that I won't lose any data or custom settings in the process. Fingers crossed!

Many thanks!

 

[Stefan Mikes]

A Wahoo and stop worrying...

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

A Wahoo and stop worrying...

Not exactly. If I spend another $400 on this bike, I'll have 2 new things to worry about — divorce and homelessness.

But I take it that you're offering to buy one for me. Thanks!

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Jeremy,
I'm sure your SL is technically sound. The issue here is you trust the Specialized App, which is, well, yet another underbaked smartphone app

I have never trusted Mission Control and do not trust the Specialized App, especially in the terms of ride recording. However, it is not only the matter of Specialized apps.

I told you a story of my late friend Jerzy who used Strava App to record all his rides since a certain year. It happened too many times his Strava froze, stopped recording for unknown reasons, didn't unlock Auto-Stop, etc etc. Jerzy was indeed miserable with those issues. His bike also had a mechanical odometer. In case of issues with Strava app, he was making a manual entry in Strava to make up for the missing ride kilometres. (Actually, he had similar problems with Endomondo before).

His life quality changed for good when I sold him my Wahoo Bolt I didn't need for some US$100. No single issue afterwards.

Why do I refer to that? Of course, you cannot afford a Wahoo right now. Just pay less attention to the Specialized App! Your power meter on Mastermind works OK, and that's what you need to know, right?

I wish you a fantastic weekend!

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

Jeremy,
I'm sure your SL is technically sound. The issue here is you trust the Specialized App, which is, well, yet another underbaked smartphone app

I have never trusted Mission Control and do not trust the Specialized App, especially in the terms of ride recording. However, it is not only the matter of Specialized apps.

I told you a story of my late friend Jerzy who used Strava App to record all his rides since a certain year. It happened too many times his Strava froze, stopped recording for unknown reasons, didn't unlock Auto-Stop, etc etc. Jerzy was indeed miserable with those issues. His bike also had a mechanical odometer. In case of issues with Strava app, he was making a manual entry in Strava to make up for the missing ride kilometres. (Actually, he had similar problems with Endomondo before).

His life quality changed for good when I sold him my Wahoo Bolt I didn't need for some US$100. No single issue afterwards.

Why do I refer to that? Of course, you cannot afford a Wahoo right now. Just pay less attention to the Specialized App! Your power meter on Mastermind works OK, and that's what you need to know, right?

I wish you a fantastic weekend!

Thanks! Here's the bottom line for me: The Specialized app seems well-designed overall. When it works — which is the vast majority of the time — it does everything I want and need. And it's free. And I find it useful to have my phone on the stem for other reasons anyway.

So why on Earth would I give up on the app this early in the game?

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Jeremy, you are lucky not to have bought a Giant e-bike

Just to say it clearly: Giant e-bikes are marvellous! Extremely well designed, durable on the mechanical side, providing almost the same connection features as Specialized Turbos, and generally less expensive. However, the story of the Giant app is... funny if not sad.

Giant had the RideControl app the same way as Specialized had Mission Control. RideControl was just terrible, and actually the only capability you would really use was the tuning of the motor. Some day, Giant buried the RideControl gen 1 and published RideControl gen 2. Everybody was excited... not. The new app was exactly as terrible as the old one, only the interface was different. It has been already several years now but Giant RideControl is as hopeless as it was on the first release

Necessary to mention, no issues with the ride data if a Garmin or a Wahoo are connected to a Giant!

I can see progress with the Specialized App development. Eventually, the glitches will be removed. Before that happens, just enjoy your rides and do not pay that much attention to the App!

P.S. No Energy/Battery Saving on your phone on?

 

[MartsEbike]

It's worth investing in a proper GPS computer. They are quite expensive but you can pick up some good deals on eBay. I bought a new Garmin to record rides on. Still, I used the specialized app a couple of weeks ago and it failed to record the route properly - capturing just a few points I visited rather than the full route I followed. Despite this issue, it did capture all the data. So it's not the most reliable means of recording rides.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

P.S. No Energy/Battery Saving on your phone on?

Not sure I understand, but in dark mode, the Specialized app's phone battey drain is a non-issue — even when the screen's on most of the time. Plenty of phone battery left after my recent 36-mile ride.

Per @mschwett , that"s because my phone has an OLED screen.

In contrast, WAY more power draw with RideWithGPS, which has no dark mode and can drain my phone in under 20 mi — even when the screen's off most of the time. **

I allow my phone to turn the screen off after a certain time in both cases, and that can be annoying at times. But it does so a lot less frequently with the Specialized app.

And since I don't navigate with either one very often on a turn-by-turn basis, that annoyance isn't reason enough for me to switch to a Wahoo.

Guys, I get that Wahoo's a better solution in many ways, but I"m NOT buying one anytime soon, period.

** Addendum: RideWithGPS has no dark mode of its own and doesn't honor phone-level dark mode, either. So I have to let its screen time out (at phone level) to preserve phone battery.

However, just now noticed an app-level "proximity" setting that wakes the screen when you wave your hand over it. If it works, that should make all of this a lot less annoying.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Jeremy, most of smartphones have a Power Saver feature. If it is on for cycling apps, the results are unpredictable.

 

[JoeDirt]

I'll chime in.

I have a wahoo Roam and it has the elements app for the phone. I just bought a wahoo mounting plate for my ebike. All I have to do is toggle my Wahoo off of my road bike and onto my ebike turn it on as well in the app, put the phone in my pocket and forget it, all my stats are right on the Wahoo head unit.

I don't have to worry about dropping my phone or breaking it. The phone in my eyes is three times more valuable than a wahoo head unit. Also it's my lifeline to communication so I preserve that.

I feel the wahoo head unit can give me all the stats that I'm looking for like the Zones, fat burn, anaerobic zone,etc. and heart rate. But I'm not so worried about heart rate anymore on an e-bike.
As far as battery and wattage output, I've pretty much relegated my reference to my perion head unit that tells me if the battery is got bars or not. My Cadence is always in the 70 and 80 range and I'm happy with keeping it around that pace on an e-bike.

I think once you decide on what statistics are important during your ride then you will dial in whatever app you're comfortable with.

Personally years ago I was all about statistics, now I pretty much know where my heart rate is and I can feel it when I pushed too far, but I like seeing things like elevation and zones that I'm working in.

If all that went away I would still enjoy the ride with my friends or by myself and not worry about stats. But that's just my two cents.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I'll chime in.

I have a wahoo Roam and it has the elements app for the phone. I just bought a wahoo mounting plate for my ebike. All I have to do is toggle my Wahoo off of my road bike and onto my ebike turn it on as well in the app, put the phone in my pocket and forget it, all my stats are right on the Wahoo head unit.

I don't have to worry about dropping my phone or breaking it. The phone in my eyes is three times more valuable than a wahoo head unit. Also it's my lifeline to communication so I preserve that.

I feel the wahoo head unit can give me all the stats that I'm looking for like the Zones, fat burn, anaerobic zone,etc. and heart rate. But I'm not so worried about heart rate anymore on an e-bike.
As far as battery and wattage output, I've pretty much relegated my reference to my perion head unit that tells me if the battery is got bars or not. My Cadence is always in the 70 and 80 range and I'm happy with keeping it around that pace on an e-bike.

I think once you decide on what statistics are important during your ride then you will dial in whatever app you're comfortable with.

Personally years ago I was all about statistics, now I pretty much know where my heart rate is and I can feel it when I pushed too far, but I like seeing things like elevation and zones that I'm working in.

If all that went away I would still enjoy the ride with my friends or by myself and not worry about stats. But that's just my two cents.

Joe but your Bosch E-Bike doesn't connect to the Wahoo?

 

[MartsEbike]

I deleted my original comment, because I read the thread again after commenting, and thought to myself Jeremy had tried Dark Mode, making my earlier comment irrelevant, but thinking again I'm not so sure...

@Jeremy McCreary forgive me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like you're looking for the "Dark Mode" option within the app - and not setting "Dark Mode" on the phone itself. If you do set "Dark Mode" on the phone - then apps (sometimes) adapt to the settings of the phone. So for example RWGPS should then be black rather than white which will help with power saving.

But that's assuming you have an iPhone rather than an Android. I've never owned an iPhone myself so don't take this as gospel but I've read online that this is the case.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

I deleted my original comment, because I read the thread again after commenting, and thought to myself Jeremy had tried Dark Mode, making my earlier comment irrelevant, but thinking again I'm not so sure...

@Jeremy McCreary forgive me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like you're looking for the "Dark Mode" option within the app - and not setting "Dark Mode" on the phone itself. If you do set "Dark Mode" on the phone - then apps (sometimes) adapt to the settings of the phone. So for example RWGPS should then be black rather than white which will help with power saving.

But that's assuming you have an iPhone rather than an Android. I've never owned an iPhone myself so don't take this as gospel but I've read online that this is the case.

View attachment 186886

Thanks! Android. See the addendum I just added to my last post.

Phone-level dark mode has no effect on either RideWithGPS or the Specialized app, but the latter has its own, applying to all but the map panel. Much prefer it for both battery preservation and readability in the saddle.

 

[MartsEbike]

Thanks! Android. See the addendum I just added to my last post.

Phone-level dark mode has no effect on either RideWithGPS or the Specialized app, but the latter has its own, applying to all but the map panel. Much prefer it for both battery preservation and readability in the saddle.

Ah right gotcha, you must have added that while I was writing my reply!

Annoying! I'm out of suggestions!

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

Ah right gotcha, you must have added that while I was writing my reply!

Annoying! I'm out of suggestions!

Saw that deleted post and thought you raised a good point, but it was gone before I could reply. Hence, the addendum. Sorry for the crossed wires.

Getting back to the original issue of occasional app-level recording failures limited to rider power only: I'd be astounded if these had anything to do with phone-level battery management.

My phone's blacked the screen hundreds of times in my 58 rides — all recorded with the Specialized app — and it's only happened 5 times. At least now I know how to restart the power recording, which is more important to me than the assist mode pie chart apparently lost in the process.

Sooner or later there'll be an app update. Fingers crossed.

 

[BlackHand]

Semi random thoughts that might not apply since I don't know how the Spec app functions.

- could the missing power be times when you've brought another app to focus? I had similar missing gaps in power on the COBI display I had a few years ago, which I eventually determined it was recording 0 watts anytime I brought RWGPS forward to check a route. Only became noticable when I navigated with RWGPS for extended periods.

-because of the above I tried Android split screen with both apps which actually worked, but would suck the phone dry in 45 minutes even with the phone plugged in.

-Proximity wake on RWGPS works pretty well.

-try reducing increasing your logging interval in RWGPS if battery life is a concern. It definitely helps.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

Semi random thoughts that might not apply since I don't know how the Spec app functions.

- could the missing power be times when you've brought another app to focus? I had similar missing gaps in power on the COBI display I had a few years ago, which I eventually determined it was recording 0 watts anytime I brought RWGPS forward to check a route. Only became noticable when I navigated with RWGPS for extended periods.

-because of the above I tried Android split screen with both apps which actually worked, but would suck the phone dry in 45 minutes even with the phone plugged in.

-Proximity wake on RWGPS works pretty well.

-try reducing increasing your logging interval in RWGPS if battery life is a concern. It definitely helps.

Very interesting — will look into all of that!

 

[mschwett]

Semi random thoughts that might not apply since I don't know how the Spec app functions.

- could the missing power be times when you've brought another app to focus? I had similar missing gaps in power on the COBI display I had a few years ago, which I eventually determined it was recording 0 watts anytime I brought RWGPS forward to check a route. Only became noticable when I navigated with RWGPS for extended periods.

-because of the above I tried Android split screen with both apps which actually worked, but would suck the phone dry in 45 minutes even with the phone plugged in.

-Proximity wake on RWGPS works pretty well.

-try reducing increasing your logging interval in RWGPS if battery life is a concern. It definitely helps.

the old specialized app was just a little cranky, occasionally disconnecting for almost any user. i did hundreds of rides with the old one and it happened twice or maybe three times. screen on, off, focus, motor assist on or off, nothing really mattered or mattered enough to discern a pattern. the difference is with screen on in the app, you know right away and don’t lose much data lol. doesn’t sound like they fixed whatever core glitch causes it lol.

RwGPS is a huge battery hog even on slower update intervals. i can get as much as 100 miles from cadence with the screen on nearly all the time, and probably 150 if i was really trying to conserve. i don’t know how much of that is dark mode vs computational efficiency, frequency of memory writes, etc. old mission control wasn’t quite as good, but similar. 75-100 on an iphone mini.

 

[jason.flood]

Hi Jeremy,

I've just been searching back through my rises on my Specialized App.

After looking at my last 35 rides and seeing they all had a full graphs for power data I just found one where the power data did not start recording until much later into the ride.

You can see in the first image that speed and elevation were recorded throughout the ride.
When I looked more closely there were several other metrics that only got recorded from about 25% into the ride.

Data recorded from 25% into ride:
Rider Power(30s)
Rider Power
Motor power(30s)
Motor power
Cadence
Battery Level
Assis Modes

Data continuously recorded:
Elevation
Speed
Heart Rate

One interesting thing from this ride was that I stopped at my office en route around time the all the ride data started recording properly.

I would have entered the subterranean building garage, parked my bike, turned the bike off, gone upstairs with my phone. Then I would have returned to my bike, turned it back on and it would have reconnected automatically with the Specialized app. I generally have the auto end timer set at 1 or 2 hours when doing longer rides.

My suspicion is that this was a simple bluetooth connection failure that didn't get rectified until the bike was turned of and on again. However the HRM data still got recorded.

The Garmin chest HRM is connected to the bike via ANT+ but also it can connect to by iPhone via bluetooth. Perhaps the HRM was data via ANT+ to the Mastermind TCU is relayed on to the phone through a different bluetooth channel or perhaps it just fell back to connecting directly to there phone.

I suspect Elevation and Speed data just fell back to being directly recorded via the iPhone GPS.

Clearly different devices (phones * dedicated GPS and the Mastermind TCU itself) and all going to have varying connection reliability in the presence of interference.
Maybe you could borrow another phone (or even a Wahoo before Stefan suggests again ) to see if the connection reliability changes? If it doesn't, maybe there is an issue with the Mastermind TCU?

Sounds like it's happening regularly enough that it should take too long to establish the lowest common denominator.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

Hi Jeremy,

I've just been searching back through my rises on my Specialized App.

After looking at my last 35 rides and seeing they all had a full graphs for power data I just found one where the power data did not start recording until much later into the ride.

You can see in the first image that speed and elevation were recorded throughout the ride.
When I looked more closely there were several other metrics that only got recorded from about 25% into the ride.

Data recorded from 25% into ride:
Rider Power(30s)
Rider Power
Motor power(30s)
Motor power
Cadence
Battery Level
Assis Modes

Data continuously recorded:
Elevation
Speed
Heart Rate

One interesting thing from this ride was that I stopped at my office en route around time the all the ride data started recording properly.

I would have entered the subterranean building garage, parked my bike, turned the bike off, gone upstairs with my phone. Then I would have returned to my bike, turned it back on and it would have reconnected automatically with the Specialized app. I generally have the auto end timer set at 1 or 2 hours when doing longer rides.

My suspicion is that this was a simple bluetooth connection failure that didn't get rectified until the bike was turned of and on again. However the HRM data still got recorded.

The Garmin chest HRM is connected to the bike via ANT+ but also it can connect to by iPhone via bluetooth. Perhaps the HRM was data via ANT+ to the Mastermind TCU is relayed on to the phone through a different bluetooth channel or perhaps it just fell back to connecting directly to there phone.

I suspect Elevation and Speed data just fell back to being directly recorded via the iPhone GPS.

Clearly different devices (phones * dedicated GPS and the Mastermind TCU itself) and all going to have varying connection reliability in the presence of interference.
Maybe you could borrow another phone (or even a Wahoo before Stefan suggests again ) to see if the connection reliability changes? If it doesn't, maybe there is an issue with the Mastermind TCU?

Sounds like it's happening regularly enough that it should take too long to establish the lowest common denominator.



View attachment 187007

Really appreciate all the time and effort that went into that! Much to digest.

You inspired me look back through all 60 rides to date. In all, 6 recording failures affecting on average 1 ride in 10. I now see that each failure involved both rider power and cadence. No other data affected. Seems like simple Bluetooth failures would have been less selective.

At a 10% failure rate, I'd have to borrow a Wahoo for many tens of rides to prove that the Wahoo doesn't have this problem. Then I'd have to admit that @Stefan Mikes is right. Sorry, can't take that risk.
;^}