Creo 2 Noisy/Juddering SRAM brakes

[Amazer98]

If any of you are having a brake issue with a Creo 2, this story might help. For the first four or five rides (approx 100 miles) on my Creo 2 Expert, the SRAM brakes worked just fine.

But all of a sudden, on maybe my fifth ride, the front brake started to judder and squeal, hellaciously vibrating the front wheel. All those rides were on decent tarmac in clear weather, so I don't think I contaminated the pads.

I took it back to the shop, where the mechanic verified the vibrations and promptly installed a new rotor, pads and even new calipers. Still, the vibration persisted and so the mechanic called Sram, who assigned one of their engineers to help with the fix. They sent down yet another Centerline rotor, and a fresh set of pads, which the mechanic installed.

He took the bike out for a ride and bedded the brakes according to factory instructions. Still, they vibrated and shook the front fork, just as the original brakes did.

I got my bike back a few days ago. After talking some more with the SRAM engineer, they decided to swap the standard Centerline rotors out and install SRAM Paceline rotors. The LBS also swapped the ‘quiet’ standard pads and installed the slightly more grippy (but allegedly noisier) semi-metallic pads.

I’m happy to say the new combo of rotors and pads performs consistently smoothly (at least so far after two 25 mile rides) and the brakes don’t seem unduly noisy. So… problem solved!

I don’t understand why the factory specced brakes started juddering (perfect word for what happened) and why the replacement parts continued to have issues. But hopefully if you have the same problem, this account will help.

 

[AvalancheRun]

The worst factory brakes were on my Gazelle Ultimate. Squeeeaaaaaaaaal all day long. Despite the LBS promising they would always be quiet, they tried to charge me $80 the second time I brought it back. REI fixed it for $30.

My Diverge can get honking loud and it's probably time to change pads. There is some vibration too, so I might try this. It’s a rival setup. Since it's not shrill like the Gazelle a little noise helps people I'm coming

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I can fully understand you want to have everything perfect on your e-bikes but you seem to demonize the things a little Hydraulic disk brakes are wild animals, and not everything about them can be explained or solved in a technical or scientific way. All that matters is a totally flat (straight) rotor, centered brake calipers, brake pads of appropriate thickness, and properly sealed hydraulic system. Hydraulic disk brakes may "judder" as you Amazer described it, and they can squeal like a pig on descents (especially with semi-metallic pads).

For instance, I was experiencing a similar phenomenon as you Amazer on the factory new Tektro brakes in my Vado SL. I didn't care as the brakes were stopping my e-bike properly. Later, given regular maintenance of the brakes, these stopped vibrating unless the braking was violent. Just recently (the mileage on the e-bike over 8,000 mi), the front brake rotor required straightening by a bike mechanic but I think that was a recent matter.

TRP brakes on my Vado 5.0/6.0 used to squeal very much, especially on mountain rides. Much later, I replaced the rotors with good Shimano ones, went for organic pads, and that made those brakes silent unless the braking was violent again!

I would not worry so much were I you. Having said the above, I need to mention my brother who is an excellent, experienced and observant bike mechanic exclaimed "SRAM is EVIL!" upon buying a SRAM equipped Marin gravel bike This is a guy who -- on his demand -- got the bike in the factory box, dismantled the bike into the smallest pieces, wrapped the frame and then built the bike from the scratch. My brother is a long time user of Shimano and he certainly can tell the difference between these competing systems Well, he's learning to live with SRAM For example, he says the SRAM brakes seem to have never been designed for gravel/off-road, as they get soiled early and cannot clean themselves.

 

[mschwett]

i have to agree with stefan's brother in some ways, i would not by choice have an SRAM group, but that's not just the brakes, it's the whole design philosophy. some of their components are excellent and i have gotten many miles out of those, for example the excellent x-dome cassettes, matching chains, the xd and xdr freehub system, etc. but no brakes should "judder" unless something is broken. a bike like the creo is capable of - and meant for - descending fast, and major oscillations are a potential disaster here.

i'm glad that SRAM fixed it, but your story moves my "i would never choose SRAM brakes/group" to "someone will have to explain this in depth and how it was fixed with the original parts before i even consider such a bike."

while it can be hard to clean pads and rotors, clean pads and clean rotors, properly bedded, and dry, do not squeal. i use 99% + isopropyl alcohol, and careful but vigorous sanding if something is truly contaminated. unfortunately there are a lot of little mistakes with disk brakes that are easy to make, for example spraying a bit of degreaser/chain cleaner anywhere near them unless they're covered!

 

[Stefan Mikes]

while it can be hard to clean pads and rotors, clean pads and clean rotors, properly bedded, and dry, do not squeal.

Although I generally agree to your views, you should watch some Electric Mountain Bike Network videos While your brakes might not squeal in the urban/road enviroment, hydraulic disk brakes do squeal when they are used under more demanding conditions

 

[mschwett]

Although I generally agree to your views, you should watch some Electric Mountain Bike Network videos While your brakes might not squeal in the urban/road enviroment, hydraulic disk brakes do squeal when they are used under more demanding conditions

yes, when brakes are dirty they can squeal! see again what i said - "clean pads and clean rotors, properly bedded, and dry, do not squeal."

nothing wrong with getting them dirty and wet, they still work. doesn't mean they're not dirty!

 

[Rás Cnoic]

I currently have original Tektro brake pads on my Vado SL. I get through a lot of pads with all the steep twisty descending and I constantly try and get deals on brake pads online. Anyway these Tektros were on sale on Amazon and I have to say it's worth getting the originals as the Tektros seem to be longer lasting and have more power then the last few third party brake pads I've used. And speaking of screaming brakes, think it's time to change the pads on my BB7 mechanical disks on my steel road bike as the juddering and squealing (out of the blue) the other day on a long steep descent would have woken the dead. I miss the longevity of rim brake pads! And the Deore V brakes on my old mtb are still superb, but I really do appreciate the hydros on the heavier e bike. Mechanical disks however seem the worst of both worlds. On that bike I wish it just had plain old reliable rim brakes. On road bikes I never had an issue with rim brakes when racing.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

On road bikes I never had an issue with rim brakes when racing.

I still love having the paint on my modern wheel rims

 

[Rás Cnoic]

I still love having the paint on my modern wheel rims

Rims, like chain sets and brake calipers used to be unpainted & polished alloy. They were beautiful.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

They were beautiful.

I beg to differ.
They looked cheap.
And had to be cheap because of their wear.

 

[Rás Cnoic]

It's more complex then that. Cheap rims are cheap rims regardless, both now and then, though components on the lower price bracket have improved out of all recognition. But when you raced you didn't have cheap rims. You'd have training wheels, clinchers, for ease of tyre changing with punctures on the road and they'd usually be clear anodised alloy rims which took a battering (and you'd try and avoid going anywhere near Weinmann rims which seemed to buckle just by looking at them sideways) and for race day you'd have your very precious very expensive tubular rims, Mavic if you could afford them and black anodised if possible. That might have been new for the 80s as I think previously everything was just alloy. Over time they wore down, but probably because there was no other options besides rim brakes, the wear wasn't even thought about back then, in terms of looks. Plus of course it helps that the rims were so shallow! Like these rims King Kelly is using here in '87.

You might be remembering the last generation of rim bike wheels when the fashion was for black everything and yeah especially on cheap mtbs which took a pounding with grit & mud and so on from the powerful V brakes. I have several 26er black rims in the garage with the brake line totally silvery white from much use.

 

[Amazer98]

Hi all, just to circle back a bit, I’m not sure what Stefan meant when he remarked that I appeared to be ‘demonizing’ the brakes. Now, perhaps my brakes were possessed by demons, but I assure you that I did not consciously aid or abet any demonic possession!

Two of my previous bikes also had SRAM disk brakes. My Salsa Vaya had mechanical disks and my last ebike (a Bulls Gravel Evo) had SRAM hydraulic discs. I rode both bikes over the course of 10 years or so and never had the squealing or juddering that my Creo 2 was plagued by.

By the way, I don’t get overly perturbed by a little squeal or noise from the brakes. I certainly don’t expect complete silence when I apply the brakes. But the squeal I was getting was ear piercing, and the shaking was pretty violent, resonating up through the fork and into the handlebars, quite visibly. it was well worth a visit to the Bike Shop to get this sorted out, and I am now very happy with my brakes and have no complaints at all.

 

[AvalancheRun]

Hi all, just to circle back a bit, I’m not sure what Stefan meant when he remarked that I appeared to be ‘demonizing’ the brakes. Now, perhaps my brakes were possessed by demons, but I assure you that I did not consciously aid or abet any demonic possession!

Two of my previous bikes also had SRAM disk brakes. My Salsa Vaya had mechanical disks and my last ebike (a Bulls Gravel Evo) had SRAM hydraulic discs. I rode both bikes over the course of 10 years or so and never had the squealing or juddering that my Creo 2 was plagued by.

By the way, I don’t get overly perturbed by a little squeal or noise from the brakes. I certainly don’t expect complete silence when I apply the brakes. But the squeal I was getting was ear piercing, and the shaking was pretty violent, resonating up through the fork and into the handlebars, quite visibly. it was well worth a visit to the Bike Shop to get this sorted out, and I am now very happy with my brakes and have no complaints at all.

He was talking to me - but I totally agree and am happy to hear you got that sorted out! Will be posing that rotor/pad question to my LBS when I bring my bike back (rear brake currently not working after hitting muddy trails).

 

[Rás Cnoic]

Hi all, just to circle back a bit, I’m not sure what Stefan meant when he remarked that I appeared to be ‘demonizing’ the brakes. Now, perhaps my brakes were possessed by demons, but I assure you that I did not consciously aid or abet any demonic possession!

Two of my previous bikes also had SRAM disk brakes. My Salsa Vaya had mechanical disks and my last ebike (a Bulls Gravel Evo) had SRAM hydraulic discs. I rode both bikes over the course of 10 years or so and never had the squealing or juddering that my Creo 2 was plagued by.

By the way, I don’t get overly perturbed by a little squeal or noise from the brakes. I certainly don’t expect complete silence when I apply the brakes. But the squeal I was getting was ear piercing, and the shaking was pretty violent, resonating up through the fork and into the handlebars, quite visibly. it was well worth a visit to the Bike Shop to get this sorted out, and I am now very happy with my brakes and have no complaints at all.

Ha my steel steed I mentioned as having BB7s that squealed to wake the dead the other day is a Salsa Vaya! I’ll investigate but suspect it’s worn out pads. Or contamination.