controller upgrade

[JES2020]

Thomas is correct. If you put higher power controller you may fry motor and melt cable. The waterproof cables cannot take more than 1500w in my opinion

Hold on, he said the motor was limited to 22amps, didn't you just post a video saying the controller was putting out "28" amps??? Or am I hallucinating?
Would you mind posting actual specs on the motor?

 

[Calibike]

Just watch the video you can see amps watts and speed

 

[JES2020]

Just watch the video you can see amps watts and speed

So The motor can take more than 22amps.

Also I am only pushing 48v and 21 amps which is only 960 watts. If the cables can take 1500w than I should be able to put at least 30 amps and 48v which = 1440w.

Am I missing something here?

 

[Calibike]

So The motor can take more than 22amps.

Also I am only pushing 48v and 21 amps which is only 960 watts. If the cables can take 1500w than I should be able to put at least 30 amps and 48v which = 1440w.

Am I missing something here?

Controller does peak at 28a. A fully charged 48v battery is 54v. Do the math 54v x 28a = ?

 

[AHicks]

I see one thing missing. That's the fact that motors, wires, and connectors take some time to get hot enough to fail. Until they get to that point, they can run considerably more than the "rated" power. The question becomes how long can they handle it? Kind of like asking a 500w motor to handle 750 or 1000w.

Going from some inexpensive featureless controller to something like a 35a max KT controller is more than current capacity too. It's often about additional features, AND the ability to change a bunch of operating parameters to customize it for your needs/tastes. THEN, we can start talking about all the different display options....

Point being, there's a lot to a controller upgrade. Been using a KT controller for 4 years now, and I'm very happy with it...

 

[JES2020]

Controller does peak at 28a. A fully charged 48v battery is 54v. Do the math 54v x 28a = ?

That makes sense at 54v. And from what Al says, It seems clear that if a person isn't pushing the system constantly to the extreame , they should be able to get better performance with a upgraded controller. So all in all, I should be able to put a 30a controller and just use the extra power judicially, especially at full battery charge.

 

[JES2020]

I see one thing missing. That's the fact that motors, wires, and connectors take some time to get hot enough to fail. Until they get to that point, they can run considerably more than the "rated" power. The question becomes how long can they handle it? Kind of like asking a 500w motor to handle 750 or 1000w.

Going from some inexpensive featureless controller to something like a 35a max KT controller is more than current capacity too. It's often about additional features, AND the ability to change a bunch of operating parameters to customize it for your needs/tastes. THEN, we can start talking about all the different display options....

Point being, there's a lot to a controller upgrade. Been using a KT controller for 4 years now, and I'm very happy with it...

It seems clear that if a person isn't pushing the system constantly to the extreme , they should be able to get better performance with a upgraded controller. So all in all, I should be able to put a 30a controller and just use the extra power judicially, especially at full battery charge.

 

[AHicks]

Yes!
I'm running a 1000w geared hub, a real torque monster. I rarely have the need for it's full capacity (after seeing what it could REALLY do early on), as I'm able to climb the biggest hills I ride normally in PAS 3 (yes I'm helping, but nothing too strenuous). This with the controller limiting power available to the motor to 1100w or so (about 20a or so).

Big motor just loafing along + controller able to pass more than enough power easily = long trouble free life = happy owner. -Al

 

[JES2020]

The problem that you're going to run into is that the 9-pin motor connector used in your kit is really only good for 30 amps, so most 35a controllers use a bigger connector that would be incompatible. There are some 30a controllers out there that should work, such as this one. If you just google "30a kt controller waterproof" you can find others. Just make sure they have the same 9-pin motor connector and 1-4 main cable (for the display, brakes and throttle).

It seems dishonest to market that kit as 1500w. Even with a 52v battery, at 22 amps it's only 1,144 watts.

I have been searching for a controller for a while now ...I forgot about the one you posted.
Question, this controller says it's for a 500w motor, will it fully push a "1500w" motor?
Also have you ever bought from this site, if so do they take PayPal?

In the mean time I attached a temporary amp meter and will be checking out the total amps this 22a kt puts out, come spring.
I have a work around if all else fails by moding the controller to put out more amps, another reason for the amp meter, to check my mod results.
This cool little $16 device remembers the highest amp reading during the ride.

 

[JES2020]

The motor has a high speed winding. Controller says 22a measured actual is almost 28a.

You can see actual real time power and speed in video below. The power leads the speed by few seconds. So you will see max speed with lower power. Power is needed for acceleration and speed is actually integral of applied power

I hooked up an amp meter and was only getting 18 amps on the listed 22amp peak controller full power at close to stall .

 

[JES2020]

I see one thing missing. That's the fact that motors, wires, and connectors take some time to get hot enough to fail. Until they get to that point, they can run considerably more than the "rated" power. The question becomes how long can they handle it? Kind of like asking a 500w motor to handle 750 or 1000w.

Going from some inexpensive featureless controller to something like a 35a max KT controller is more than current capacity too. It's often about additional features, AND the ability to change a bunch of operating parameters to customize it for your needs/tastes. THEN, we can start talking about all the different display options....

Point being, there's a lot to a controller upgrade. Been using a KT controller for 4 years now, and I'm very happy with it...

Well after months of searching it appears the connectors for above 750 w motor controllers, have the 3 pin motor connectors on KTs, (according to the KT manufacture) So apparently the 1500 W CaliBike motor is really probably an over volted 750 watt motor according to the 9 pin motor connector !

Also thanks to your explaining that it takes a bit of time to overheat , and some more research, I was able to mod my controller from 18 peak to 32 peak amps output !

I can already feel the additional torque on the bike stand, but am wondering if it will effect the smooth power curve of the PAS. I will have to wait for the spring to test, however it should be simple to un mod or reduce the amperage of the mod, if needed.

 

[AHicks]

There's a lot of factors like rolling resistance, your weight, etc, but my experience has been that if you can get the wattage down into the range of 80-100 while in PAS 1, you'll have something you can work with - assuming good low speed control is your target/goal.

Oh, and there's 2 distinct series of KT controls, waterproof and non. Pictures of the larger 750w plus waterproof plug show what appear to be 3 wire connectors, but a better picture of that same plug will show 5-6 smaller tabs located arund the outside of the 3 bigger ones located in the center. Bafang doesn't use a 3 wire connector on anything.... -Al

 

[JES2020]

There's a lot of factors like rolling resistance, your weight, etc, but my experience has been that if you can get the wattage down into the range of 80-100 while in PAS 1, you'll have something you can work with - assuming good low speed control is your target/goal.

Oh, and there's 2 distinct series of KT controls, waterproof and non. Pictures of the larger 750w plus waterproof plug show what appear to be 3 wire connectors, but a better picture of that same plug will show 5-6 smaller tabs located arund the outside of the 3 bigger ones located in the center. Bafang doesn't use a 3 wire connector on anything.... -Al

Yeah, I believe your right about the 3 pin WP motor connectors, it seems using the 3 pin term, is how they differentiate from the 9 equal sized pins.
Also after checking it seems the 9 pin is made for 750 w motors too. So my so called 1500w could be a over volted 750 w motor.
I just checked and in PAS 1, I show 117 WP (watts peak), so I may need to do some tuning of the mod for
slow speed PAS. I didn't have the amp meter last time I rode but wheel certainly spins up faster than it did before the mod. But like you said weight and resistance may help modulate the response.
UPDATE 3-9-21
First ride of the season with the modded controller. Seems like a whole new bike and the PAS is still smooth at 117+ watts !
For some reason I am getting 1.5 more MPH too !Not sure how that happened. In PAS 5 this thing takes off like a bronco, I have to remember to hold on a little tighter now when I want to gun it. When I checked the amp meter it said peak amps at 30, that's when I gunned from stop to 31.5 MPH, throttle only. Thinking about putting a larger chain ring (from 42 to 52) on it as after 15-20 MPH, pedaling is a waste of time.
I have my throttle set to the PAS range and even in PAS 1, I can get going MUCH faster than befor, very handy for crossing streets and other important times.

 

[JES2020]

Yeah, I believe your right about the 3 pin WP motor connectors, it seems using the 3 pin term, is how they differentiate from the 9 equal sized pins.
Also after checking it seems the 9 pin is made for 750 w motors too. So my so called 1500w could be a over volted 750 w motor.
I just checked and in PAS 1, I show 117 WP (watts peak), so I may need to do some tuning of the mod for
slow speed PAS. I didn't have the amp meter last time I rode but wheel certainly spins up faster than it did before the mod. But like you said weight and resistance may help modulate the response.
UPDATE 3-9-21
First ride of the season with the modded controller. Seems like a whole new bike and the PAS is still smooth at 117+ watts !
For some reason I am getting 1.5 more MPH too !Not sure how that happened. In PAS 5 this thing takes off like a bronco, I have to remember to hold on a little tighter now when I want to gun it. When I checked the amp meter it said peak amps at 30, that's when I gunned from stop to 31.5 MPH, throttle only. Thinking about putting a larger chain ring (from 42 to 52) on it as after 15-20 MPH, pedaling is a waste of time.
I have my throttle set to the PAS range and even in PAS 1, I can get going MUCH faster than befor, very handy for crossing streets and other important times.

Did a max speed run the other day and with pedaling, somehow I was able to hit 38.6 MPH !
As I understand it, an increase of amps should only improve acceleration, not speed, yet before the mod, I was only able to hit 33 MPH level and pedaling. What gives?

 

[AHicks]

Sounds to me like you ate your Wheaties that morning!

Kidding. Speed is about the amount of voltage actually delivered to the motor. The more you start with, the less sag it's delivered with, the faster you go.

 

[JES2020]

Sounds to me like you ate your Wheaties that morning!

Kidding. Speed is about the amount of voltage actually delivered to the motor. The more you start with, the less sag it's delivered with, the faster you go.

Interesting, and makes good sense ! I just realized my battery was only at 49.x v when I did the test !
Maybe I might be able to break the elusive 40 MPH event horizon , with a full battery.

 

[TForan]

Interesting, and makes good sense ! I just realized my battery was only at 49.x v when I did the test !
Maybe I might be able to break the elusive 40 MPH event horizon , with a full battery.

Sure you want to go 40 mph on a bicycle ?

 

[JES2020]

Sure you want to go 40 mph on a bicycle ?

YEP.
One , I have gone 130 MPH on a motorcycle which is much more dangerous than 40 on a bike.
Two , I have a brown belt in Judo so I can safely fall at much greater distance and speed than you could imagine.
Three , I own and fly airplanes...nuff said.

 

[TForan]

YEP.
One , I have gone 130 MPH on a motorcycle which is much more dangerous than 40 on a bike.
Two , I have a brown belt in Judo so I can safely fall at much greater distance and speed than you could imagine.
Three , I own and fly airplanes...nuff said.

Ok, but I would suggest some body armor.

 

[JES2020]

Ok, but I would suggest some body armor.

YOU are of course free to live in a cave, inside a protective bubble !