Confessions of an ebike startup owner - Watt Wagons

[sisyphus]

Congratulations Pushcar! A great year for you.

Reading the comments, I thought Mike’s E-bikes had a great point advising you to be careful, and I took it as caring as much as criticism. FlatSiz911 was also kind, and I think correct to praise you for your openness. If I may say, it’s a balance. As a retired fairly savvy business exec. (forgive some lack of humility) I’ve been fascinated to watch the new trend of entrepreneurs who publicly detail their journeys.

At first, I thought it a bad move. But I’ve watched a number of start-ups do very well by creating an actual community around their product and their success. I think that in order to do that well the CEO needs to be a very sincere individual. Lucky for you, you ooze sincerity, passion, and intelligence. So, keep doing what you’re doing, AND, be careful.

On a related note, it amazes me how, on thousands of EBR posts, people will critique components, or bikes they’ve never actually tried. Incredible. - Thus, in 2020, I wish you patience, resolve, and the ability to filter the wisdom from the foolishness.

Can’t wait till I get delivery of my new Cross Tour!

Craig

PS: I need to send you some Oolong tea.

 

[Ayl]

The Brooks B17 Imperial saddle is one of the most comfortable seats out there. Like any solid leather product it takes a little breaking in. Usually after a few hundred miles is when it is formed to your butt bones.

Before converting over to the Brooks B17 saddle I was using a Spongy Wonder bike seat due to typical bicycle seats causing issues with my perineum nerve. I'm probably a couple of hundred miles away from fully breaking in my Brooks B17, but even after riding a couple of hours the saddle is not causing any perineum nerve problems.

 

[pushkar]

Hey everyone - just another follow up to multiple posts here. Thanks so much for believing in me and the bike. I love to hear these amazing stories about my bike and the components, and that motivates me to do better every day.

I cant wait for the oolong tea

 

[JRA]

Before converting over to the Brooks B17 saddle I was using a Spongy Wonder bike seat due to typical bicycle seats causing issues with my perineum nerve. I'm probably a couple of hundred miles away from fully breaking in my Brooks B17, but even after riding a couple of hours the saddle is not causing any perineum nerve problems.

I've posted about this before here but the best way to break in a Brooks without any discomfort is to fill a suitably sized container with warm water and put the saddle, which can stay attached to the post, in it for about 10-15 minutes checking for pliability every so often. When it starts to feel pliable put it on the bike and go for a decent length ride and when you come back your saddle will fit your backside like a glove. In fact that trick has been used for leather gloves as well as boots for years. It will dry out overnight and after dry apply Proofhide and every so often re-apply it. I always found that it takes warm water to get the leather moving in a pliable direction and never had issues with riding in natural wet conditions. I used B17's and Pro's for years on my mountain bikes and broke in about 4 saddles in this manner and never had any failures.

Watch the older video out there that shows how Brooks makes their saddles. The first thing they do is soak the leather in, you guessed it, warm water.

 

[webcurl]

At first, I thought it a bad move. But I’ve watched a number of start-ups do very well by creating an actual community around their product and their success. I think that in order to do that well the CEO needs to be a very sincere individual. Lucky for you, you ooze sincerity, passion, and intelligence. So, keep doing what you’re doing, AND, be careful.

One case in point about sincerity is the testimonials section on your website, it seems that 2 of the 4 entries are from prospective owners not actual owners.

 

[pushkar]

One case in point about sincerity is the testimonials section on your website, it seems that 2 of the 4 entries are from prospective owners not actual owners.

All of them are from people who have bought the bike. Which quotes from prospective buyers are you referring to?

 

[vincent]

I am a Wattwagon owner and have been super happy with Pushkar and my bike

have not had time to write up a review because of work but Pushkar has been great to work with

 

[webcurl]

I currently have a 2018 R&M Supercharger, i like the manual Rohloff shift and i assume you're not using E14 as i believe it's a Bosch only thing.

My perfect off-road touring ebike would be a R&M SuperDelite Rohloff with GX & Fox upgrade but i'm no longer interested in Bosch & E14.

I'd prefer the following:
- Super strong frame with the overall weight capacity of 160kg or more
- Preferably Fox shocks
- Non Bosch motor/batteries as i'll be charging via solar when stationary and Bosch are a pain in the arse/fanny for this, also not liking Bosch's anti-tuning measures as i'd like to go faster in the Aussie outback on private properties.
- Manual Rohloff shift
- Ergon GP5's: https://www.ergonbike.com/en/product-details.html?a=griffe&anr=42410075&s=gptouring
- Selle SMP saddle: https://www.sellesmp.com/en/saddles/tourism/trk-large-gel.html
- Pedals: https://www.raceface.com/products/details/aeffect-pedals (I already have these on the SuperCharger and are excellent)
- 65mm + Tires: https://www.schwalbe.com/en/mtb-reader/smart-sam-dd or https://www.schwalbe.com/en/mtb-reader/hurricane
- A high beam switch
- It must however have Rohloff & Gates CDX belt

Everything else on your Ultimate Commuter Pro looks great. Can these things be customized?
But the biggest concerns i have are if you can ship to Australia and the Bafang itself as per what i found on youtube:

QC

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObChzkNVgNk Check it out at 0:29:00 and worse still at 2:10:40 ... Bad design. I'd like to go for Bafang but this doesn't give me much confidence!

electricbikereview.com

 

[webcurl]

All of them are from people who have bought the bike. Which quotes from prospective buyers are you referring to?

1) "I am new to ebiking so I need to do some reading and research. I came across your bike by looking for the kind of build you do. When I saw the picture and specs it felt a little like long ago seeing that one girl across the crowded room..."
2) "I stumbled upon your website while looking for an ebike with rohloff and gates belt. I am impressed with what you are offering. You seem to have the kind of bike that would make me happy."

They sound like prospective buyers to me.

 

[BillP]

I currently have a 2018 R&M Supercharger, i like the manual Rohloff shift and i assume you're not using E14 as i believe it's a Bosch only thing.

My perfect off-road touring ebike would be a R&M SuperDelite Rohloff with GX & Fox upgrade but i'm no longer interested in Bosch & E14.

I'd prefer the following:
- Super strong frame with the overall weight capacity of 160kg or more
- Preferably Fox shocks
- Non Bosch motor/batteries as i'll be charging via solar when stationary and Bosch are a pain in the arse/fanny for this, also not liking Bosch's anti-tuning measures as i'd like to go faster in the Aussie outback when there's no traffic even if it is illegal here.
- Manual Rohloff shift
- Ergon GP5's: https://www.ergonbike.com/en/product-details.html?a=griffe&anr=42410075&s=gptouring
- Selle SMP saddle: https://www.sellesmp.com/en/saddles/tourism/trk-large-gel.html
- Pedals: https://www.raceface.com/products/details/aeffect-pedals (I already have these on the SuperCharger and are excellent)
- 65mm + Tires: https://www.schwalbe.com/en/mtb-reader/smart-sam-dd
- A high beam switch
- It must however have Rohloff & Gates CDX belt

Everything else on your Ultimate Commuter Pro looks great. Can these things be customized?
But the biggest concerns i have are if you can ship to Australia and the Bafang itself as per what i found on youtube:

QC

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObChzkNVgNk Check it out at 0:29:00 and worse still at 2:10:40 ... Bad design. I'd like to go for Bafang but this doesn't give me much confidence!

electricbikereview.com

webcurl... Your looking at the wrong motor

 

[pushkar]

1) "I am new to ebiking so I need to do some reading and research. I came across your bike by looking for the kind of build you do. When I saw the picture and specs it felt a little like long ago seeing that one girl across the crowded room..."
2) "I stumbled upon your website while looking for an ebike with rohloff and gates belt. I am impressed with what you are offering. You seem to have the kind of bike that would make me happy."

They sound like prospective buyers to me.

Oh! Ha ha.. Now that I read them with a different context, they definitely sound like prospective customers.

But fortunately they are both customers.

I am fortunate that customers care about the bike. Some of the emails and reviews I have received are so deeply personal that I cant share them publicly without sounding absolutely pompous / self aggrandizing.

Thanks again for your feedback. I will see if there are other better / customer sounding items that I can use.

 

[webcurl]

- Ergon GP5's: https://www.ergonbike.com/en/product-details.html?a=griffe&anr=42410075&s=gptouring

Scratch that, the Surly Mokolo Loop bar looks to be already quite flexible for hand positions.

 

[pushkar]

I currently have a 2018 R&M Supercharger, i like the manual Rohloff shift and i assume you're not using E14 as i believe it's a Bosch only thing.

My perfect off-road touring ebike would be a R&M SuperDelite Rohloff with GX & Fox upgrade but i'm no longer interested in Bosch & E14.

I'd prefer the following:
- Super strong frame with the overall weight capacity of 160kg or more
- Preferably Fox shocks
- Non Bosch motor/batteries as i'll be charging via solar when stationary and Bosch are a pain in the arse/fanny for this, also not liking Bosch's anti-tuning measures as i'd like to go faster in the Aussie outback when there's no traffic even if it is illegal here.
- Manual Rohloff shift
- Ergon GP5's: https://www.ergonbike.com/en/product-details.html?a=griffe&anr=42410075&s=gptouring
- Selle SMP saddle: https://www.sellesmp.com/en/saddles/tourism/trk-large-gel.html
- Pedals: https://www.raceface.com/products/details/aeffect-pedals (I already have these on the SuperCharger and are excellent)
- 65mm + Tires: https://www.schwalbe.com/en/mtb-reader/smart-sam-dd
- A high beam switch
- It must however have Rohloff & Gates CDX belt

Everything else on your Ultimate Commuter Pro looks great. Can these things be customized?
But the biggest concerns i have are if you can ship to Australia and the Bafang itself as per what i found on youtube:

QC

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObChzkNVgNk Check it out at 0:29:00 and worse still at 2:10:40 ... Bad design. I'd like to go for Bafang but this doesn't give me much confidence!

electricbikereview.com

1. The frame is rated for 150kg / ~300lb. I can up it, but I’d like to know more about the use case. Are you going to do more cargo ?
2. Yes, Rohloff manual shifting is standard.
3. Ergon GP1s can be swapped out for GP5s.
4. Selle SMP saddle is no problem.
5. Pedals / Raceface are no problem.
6. Wider tires are no problem.
7. Lezyne 1800i megadrive comes with a light switch (it is toggle, not just full beam), plus an iPhone app, so your choice on how you want to do it.
8. Rohloff and belt are standard.
9. Yes we ship to Australia!

In terms of the video - I didn’t get far - would be great to know what issue you were trying to bring up.

 

[webcurl]

In terms of the video - I didn’t get far - would be great to know what issue you were trying to bring up.

I listed 2 time points for the video.
The first is not a problem if the PCB is through-hole - a good solder connection on only one side of the PCB is ok, if it''s not through-hole then it's really bad. Through-hole means an electrical connection from one side of the PCB to the other. I assume the Bafang PCB is through-hole though.
The second is really bad, if there needs to be a "thick" connection between points on the PCB to handle high electrical currents then it really should be designed with wires to connect the points, not rely upon a bed/thick track of solder to carry the current. And as can be seen the "thick" solder track was interrupted, this is not good at all. It's a combination of bad design and poor QC.
But i hope they're getting better!

 

[pushkar]

I listed 2 time points for the video.
The first is not a problem if the PCB is through-hole - a good solder connection on only one side of the PCB is ok, if it''s not through-hole then it's really bad. Through-hole means an electrical connection from one side of the PCB to the other. I assume the Bafang PCB is through-hole though.
The second is really bad, if there needs to be a "thick" connection between points on the PCB to handle high electrical currents then it really should be designed with wires to connect the points, not rely upon a bed/thick track of solder to carry the current. And as can be seen the "thick" solder track was interrupted, this is not good at all. It's a combination of bad design and poor QC.
But i hope they're getting better!

I would echo what @BillP mentioned earlier. The motor in the video is the BBSHD. The motor on our bikes is the newer Bafang Ultra. I cannot speak to the type of soldering used - I am sure we have experts on EBR who can comment on the build quality of the BBSHD and Bafang Ultra lines.

Regardless, we provide a 2 year warranty on the bike - including the motor and the battery. If there are any issues, we will Quickly provide replacement or repair options.

 

[webcurl]

The frame is rated for 150kg / ~300lb. I can up it, but I’d like to know more about the use case. Are you going to do more cargo ?

Yes, i'm 80-85kg, not sure what the UC Pro weighs as standard. But would like to carry lot's of water in the Aussie outback. And my Solar charging setup is 5-7kg. On top of food and camping gear, panniers etc.
Rough terrain.
On the rear i have: https://www.ortlieb.com/back-roller-pro-plus+F5252
I have one of these already for the front forks, with side frames and works well: https://www.thule.com/en-us/bike-accessories/rear-bike-racks/thule-tour-rack-_-100090 , with these: https://www.ortlieb.com/gravel-pack
But ideally would like one of these (they don't ship outside of the EU): https://faiv.de/fahrrad/gepaecktraeger-hoogar/
Also have a frame bag i can put 2.5l of water in - 2.5kg.

 

[pushkar]

Yes, i'm 80-85kg, not sure what the UC Pro weighs as standard. But would like to carry lot's of water in the Aussie outback. And my Solar charging setup is 5-7kg. On top of food and camping gear, panniers etc.
Rough terrain.
On the rear i have: https://www.ortlieb.com/back-roller-pro-plus+F5252
I have one of these already for the front forks, with side frames and works well: https://www.thule.com/en-us/bike-accessories/rear-bike-racks/thule-tour-rack-_-100090 , with these: https://www.ortlieb.com/gravel-pack
But ideally would like one of these (they don't ship outside of the EU): https://faiv.de/fahrrad/gepaecktraeger-hoogar/
Also have a frame bag i can put 2.5l of water in - 2.5kg.

Got it. I think @KellyH can help you with a bunch of these. He in fact built a custom solar charger trailer to go with the bike.

 

[webcurl]

Got it. I think @KellyH can help you with a bunch of these. He in fact built a custom solar charger trailer to go with the bike.

Thanks but i want to stick to the agility of 2 x 27.5" wheels without a trailer and i've invested heavily in 2 foldable solar panels from the U.S. (https://p3solar.com/portfolio/p3-125/), plus electronics.
My touring patterns would be:
Ride for a day then camp where there's a power outlet.
Or ride for a day towards a decent camp, and if sufficient water/food rest for a day or 2 whilst solar panels charge batteries, then ride for a day towards a camp with power outlet.
Or combination of the 2.
Hence why i want a strong frame. How would you strengthen it?

 

[Mass Deduction]

Green tea also has a little caffeine, all DECAF teas and coffees have caffeine (10-30mg).
The shelf life of caffeine in someone’s system is up to 7-8hours. But w/o this nice titanium ebike couldn’t have been built.

Caffeine, It Is a very damaging substance and unbelievably ,it is a legal poison.
To a better sleep and a great WW ebike

Tea has both caffeine (a stimulant) and theanine (a relaxant). Black tea, and most types of green tea, are more stimulating than relaxing. That can lead to dependency issues and other problems.

But there's one variety of green tea where the caffeine and the theanines are in balance: matcha. So I drink matcha, and whether I have a lot or have a little it doesn't make any difference to me. I don't get a buzz from drinking a lot, and I don't miss it when I only drink a little. Matcha is regular green tea that's grown in the shade, which is like the equivalent of high altitude training for tea. It increases the theanine level which brings it into balance with the caffeine.

Back on topic. Congrats to the OP on working hard on your passion project and having some success!

 

[TomD]

Is it just me or does Watt Wagons sound like a company that would specialize in cargo bikes like this as opposed to a company specializing in high end spec ebikes with lots of power and range?

My only other comment is I'm not keen on externally mounted batteries. In this price range I'd want something cleaner looking with integrated battery and rear suspension. Make something like a Riese & Muller Superdelite with suspended rack and you probably wouldn't be able to keep up with demand. That said, congrats on what you have accomplished so far and wishing you continued success.