seandepagnier
New Member
- Region
- Canada
I am in the US, specifically north carolina. I like bicycles. I enjoyed an ebike last year. I am now a pedestrian and I don't think it is very far to walk 5 miles each way to do shopping so have no need for a bicycle currently. I have enjoyed an ebike and had one for almost a year. I use the motor to power a boat now instead. I returned to a place I had visited 4 years ago, and the situation has been transformed due to ebikes.
Unlike most internet users I can change my mine and opinions so I appreciate feedback in a civil discussion.
1) Safety: ebikes are physically heavier than regular bicycles due to the batteries and motor. The average speed of an bicycle is 8-12mph. Kinetic energy in crashes is related to mass times velocity squared. Reaction time is divided by velocity. The first time I tried my ebike I crashed badly as it had many times more power than I can pedal and I did not expect this. Around here I see 10 year old kids on full size very heavy ebikes that they probably couldn't pedal more than 10mph. I had some batteries short out on the bicycle frame. I had to jump off, throw the battery off, remove some cells that were burning hot, and jam a wire inbetween some cells and continue at a lower voltage. This is not very safe but completely legal. An actual collision is one of several ways to trigger a lithium battery fire.
2) Power: A normal rider outputs 120W or so. Few people are capable of 250W for extended periods. It seems 750W is not really appropriate. The argument about 1 horse power... well horses are a completely different animal, and they weigh roughly 800 pounds and travel about 4mph when producing 1 horse power.
3) Speed: I could maintain 20mph if I was very fit on flat ground. When I did this on a greenway when back in 2008 people yelled at me. It was rude to do travel this speed and few people pedal this fast simply because of their own physical limitation. ebikes go this speed all the time regardless of terrain. Sure some riders dont go the maximum speed they can, but that is not the norm around here. These are college students and they go as fast as the machine allows. Some ride on the road, and others ride on the sidewalk passing within inches of me. So far the dangerous ones have all been males in their 20's who aren't pedaling at all going much faster than 20mph on the sidewalk or bike path on what looks to me more like a motorcycle than a bicycle.
4) Future: Where does the energy come from to charge the ebike? I use 100 watts of solar panels for all my electricity. My ebike went 1 mile per 20 watt hours going 15mph. Compare efficiency, and you will find the lower speed has better efficiency. Solar power has a significant environmental impact. The panels have cadmium and should be used sparingly. Is it reasonable to consume excess energy from damaging sources like solar or even dirtier forms of power (we barely have any renewables on the grid as it is)? My ebike motor destroyed my alloy wheel making multiple cracks in the rim, after only few months of use. This means more waste, or heavier wheels, either way: more consumption. I went back to a standard bicycle and after a few weeks, the 20 mile round trip to the nearst grocery store didn't seem far anymore as I got back in shape pedaling again. In the past people took more pride in their fitness, now 74% are overweight and 42.4% obese setting new records. Replacing physical effort with motors seems a poor choice. What kind of society will remain?
5) Ethics: ebike batteries often use cobolt which is mined with child labor. The copper required comes at the expense of innocent lives. Please read about the panguna mine in bouganville if you dont believe me. Tens of thousands of innocent people who lived carbon-neutral lives were essentially murdered for the sake of greed of copper mining corporation "rio tinto" who refused to take responsibility for any wrong doing. Although the people there paid with their blood to shut that mine down, many women were raped and comitted suicide from the trama and the forest there continues to die off to this day as the toxic waste spreads. The children have leisons from swimming in the river and the people dont even have bicycles let alone ebikes. Other copper mines have similar negative environmental impacts. In china where rare earth metals are turned into neodymium magnets, entire villages went extinct from cancer. Most lithium batteries end up in landfill or worse. These factors do not exist for regular bicycles and cannot be ignored.
6) Evidence: reports are showing that over the past 4-5 years (2018-2022) ebikes are more dangerous than motorcycles. This is largely due to motorcycle riders generally wearing much better protective gear. This should be a concern to everyone. In europe, ebikes are 250W and no faster than 25kph (15mph) and generally age restricted. Is it not time to consider learning something from countries that know much more about widespread bicycle transportation?
7) Enforcement: In my own ebike, I used a vesc open source controller with a 1500W BMC motor I got for $100 on ebay. I never ran it above 400W but the power rating is not printed anywhere. I had 72 "2 year old" 18650 cells I got off ebay for $50. The bicycle itself was free, so the ebike cost was $200 total. There was no speed limit and it went a lot faster than I can pedal. One video I saw was an ebike with 7,500W, and by lying to police that it is only 750W they were told to "ride in the bike lane." youtube videos showing "this simple 5 minute hack to unlock your ebike" and another "safety mods" turns his ebike into 8000W capable of 80mph, all with positive feedback comments about how "sick" it is. No police seemed to care at all what speed I went. Anyone can swap a motor controller in 5 minutes or print a different sticker. People do whatever they can get away with. How can regulations on ebikes actually be enforced?
In conclusion: I don't care what speed ebikes go on roads: this is the only place I used mine. My concern is primarily sidewalks, and to some extent bike paths. As a pedestrian ebikes are new, in an marginalized space, and passing within inches at high speed. It is time to abolish these nonsense class 1, 2, 3 rules as they don't even make any sense, and adopt the european standards. An age restriction of 15 years and older anything with an electric motor for no other reason than to ensure less total resource consumption in our depleted world. Do we have to wait until enough kids crack their heads open to open our own minds as well? Can anyone agree? If not, can you explain why?
Unlike most internet users I can change my mine and opinions so I appreciate feedback in a civil discussion.
1) Safety: ebikes are physically heavier than regular bicycles due to the batteries and motor. The average speed of an bicycle is 8-12mph. Kinetic energy in crashes is related to mass times velocity squared. Reaction time is divided by velocity. The first time I tried my ebike I crashed badly as it had many times more power than I can pedal and I did not expect this. Around here I see 10 year old kids on full size very heavy ebikes that they probably couldn't pedal more than 10mph. I had some batteries short out on the bicycle frame. I had to jump off, throw the battery off, remove some cells that were burning hot, and jam a wire inbetween some cells and continue at a lower voltage. This is not very safe but completely legal. An actual collision is one of several ways to trigger a lithium battery fire.
2) Power: A normal rider outputs 120W or so. Few people are capable of 250W for extended periods. It seems 750W is not really appropriate. The argument about 1 horse power... well horses are a completely different animal, and they weigh roughly 800 pounds and travel about 4mph when producing 1 horse power.
3) Speed: I could maintain 20mph if I was very fit on flat ground. When I did this on a greenway when back in 2008 people yelled at me. It was rude to do travel this speed and few people pedal this fast simply because of their own physical limitation. ebikes go this speed all the time regardless of terrain. Sure some riders dont go the maximum speed they can, but that is not the norm around here. These are college students and they go as fast as the machine allows. Some ride on the road, and others ride on the sidewalk passing within inches of me. So far the dangerous ones have all been males in their 20's who aren't pedaling at all going much faster than 20mph on the sidewalk or bike path on what looks to me more like a motorcycle than a bicycle.
4) Future: Where does the energy come from to charge the ebike? I use 100 watts of solar panels for all my electricity. My ebike went 1 mile per 20 watt hours going 15mph. Compare efficiency, and you will find the lower speed has better efficiency. Solar power has a significant environmental impact. The panels have cadmium and should be used sparingly. Is it reasonable to consume excess energy from damaging sources like solar or even dirtier forms of power (we barely have any renewables on the grid as it is)? My ebike motor destroyed my alloy wheel making multiple cracks in the rim, after only few months of use. This means more waste, or heavier wheels, either way: more consumption. I went back to a standard bicycle and after a few weeks, the 20 mile round trip to the nearst grocery store didn't seem far anymore as I got back in shape pedaling again. In the past people took more pride in their fitness, now 74% are overweight and 42.4% obese setting new records. Replacing physical effort with motors seems a poor choice. What kind of society will remain?
5) Ethics: ebike batteries often use cobolt which is mined with child labor. The copper required comes at the expense of innocent lives. Please read about the panguna mine in bouganville if you dont believe me. Tens of thousands of innocent people who lived carbon-neutral lives were essentially murdered for the sake of greed of copper mining corporation "rio tinto" who refused to take responsibility for any wrong doing. Although the people there paid with their blood to shut that mine down, many women were raped and comitted suicide from the trama and the forest there continues to die off to this day as the toxic waste spreads. The children have leisons from swimming in the river and the people dont even have bicycles let alone ebikes. Other copper mines have similar negative environmental impacts. In china where rare earth metals are turned into neodymium magnets, entire villages went extinct from cancer. Most lithium batteries end up in landfill or worse. These factors do not exist for regular bicycles and cannot be ignored.
6) Evidence: reports are showing that over the past 4-5 years (2018-2022) ebikes are more dangerous than motorcycles. This is largely due to motorcycle riders generally wearing much better protective gear. This should be a concern to everyone. In europe, ebikes are 250W and no faster than 25kph (15mph) and generally age restricted. Is it not time to consider learning something from countries that know much more about widespread bicycle transportation?
7) Enforcement: In my own ebike, I used a vesc open source controller with a 1500W BMC motor I got for $100 on ebay. I never ran it above 400W but the power rating is not printed anywhere. I had 72 "2 year old" 18650 cells I got off ebay for $50. The bicycle itself was free, so the ebike cost was $200 total. There was no speed limit and it went a lot faster than I can pedal. One video I saw was an ebike with 7,500W, and by lying to police that it is only 750W they were told to "ride in the bike lane." youtube videos showing "this simple 5 minute hack to unlock your ebike" and another "safety mods" turns his ebike into 8000W capable of 80mph, all with positive feedback comments about how "sick" it is. No police seemed to care at all what speed I went. Anyone can swap a motor controller in 5 minutes or print a different sticker. People do whatever they can get away with. How can regulations on ebikes actually be enforced?
In conclusion: I don't care what speed ebikes go on roads: this is the only place I used mine. My concern is primarily sidewalks, and to some extent bike paths. As a pedestrian ebikes are new, in an marginalized space, and passing within inches at high speed. It is time to abolish these nonsense class 1, 2, 3 rules as they don't even make any sense, and adopt the european standards. An age restriction of 15 years and older anything with an electric motor for no other reason than to ensure less total resource consumption in our depleted world. Do we have to wait until enough kids crack their heads open to open our own minds as well? Can anyone agree? If not, can you explain why?
