Commute with Full Suspension

The document is current, not 2012 and I have linked both above.

https://www.ridefox.com/service.php?m=bike



I did speak with Trek and specialized engineers as to why they design their commuter bikes the way they are doing. It is to keep it nimble (less weight) maintenance-free and for longevity.

Anyone can call their nearest premier Trek dealership and ask why they don't build full-suspension bikes for commuting. Most dedicated riders would not pick a full suspension bike because they know what it entails.
I am always rooting for anyone who spreads scientific knowledge and there will always be inherent bias when we are benefiting business wise.

FS bikes work well for deep potholes or large inconsistencies in the terrain but it is not an improvement for small bumps or high frequency inconsistencies. It is one of the reasons Schwalbe's balloon tires are such a hit (Supermoto-X) and BodyFloat suspension seatpost is a great upgrade.

I will list some points so people can educate themselves.

Co-motion cycles out of Portland is a world renowned touring bike manufacturer. Their non E-bikes cost more than R&M ebikes and none of their bikes have suspension.

https://co-motion.com/bikes/bikes-grid-touring

Koga out of Netherlands is another world's most respected touring bike manufacturer and their signature world traveler has Rohloff E-14 but no suspension.

https://www.koga.com/en/bikes/e-bikes/collection/e-worldtraveller.htm?frame=H


Asserting oneself authoritatively does not make anyone into an expert and shrewdness is not intelligence.
Clarity comes with saddle time and experience.

This is completely inaccurate. I have demoed numerous rock shox and fox forks and shocks from 2014 to 2018 and small bump compliance is absolutely outstanding in the most recent models. Go to any dealer or demo day, get forks and shock setup for your weight and preference and go hammer. The latest suspension is fantastic.

If you want the highest level of comfort, use high quality suspension from rockshox and/or fox, paired with a carbon frame. Carbon wheels and/or handlebar will add further comfort. Even plastic pedals will take the edge off of pedal strikes. But at this point we're talking about far more expensive bicycles.

Third, plus sized tires, especially set up tubeless, are phenomenal for added comfort.

As you can see from the rec. service intervals, riding in dirty, wet, muddy conditions means shorter service intervals. Riding in dryer, cleaner conditions hitting only occasional bumps means longer service intervals. Just common sense. What is absolutely necessary? Hard to say, since fox and rockshox and suntour are just as concerned with liability as performance and so will err by recommending shorter service intervals.

As far as why trek doesn't offer full suspension for the road, the answers are very simple: cost, lack of demand, and possibly due to a hit in performance on the street. A hardtail with optional suspension seatpost will cover the needs of most riders.

There is a subset of riders here however who are older, have had significant injuries or simply more sensitive to road shock, who are willing to put up with the tradeoffs. A 500 to 750 watt motor will certainly help with any performance in hit in pedaling efficiency! For me a hardtail with suspension seatpost will be fine for road riding, but I can't speak for everyone, much less the entire industry or even one particular brand.

This is a great thread. Thanks to both @Ravi Kempaiah and @Chris Nolte for putting some great information and perspectives out there.

And now to add my own two ducats:

I love my R&M Charger, and consider it a great bike. I have, however, ridded a lot of different bikes over the years, some of them quite nice and more than a few not-so-nice. So I think I have a bit of sensitivity to what I would vaguely call "road feel".

The Charger is an aluminum-framed bike, and like all such bikes it is quite stiff. The thicker i-beam "tubes" and the longer chainstay and slacker geometry in general all combine to make the bike very stiff and at times more than a bit ponderous. I think R&M is kind of forced by those design features to go for full suspension, or at least a front suspension and a suspension seat post.

I think an interesting experiment would be to retrofit a Charger with a really nice and springy steel front fork and a suspension stem (I've not yet found a fork that would come even remotely close to working). Preferably also with a set of Jones Bars.

E-bike motors force manufacturers to alter frame design. Mid drive motors necessitate longer chainstays usually. This could change in the future as motors become smaller, but generally speaking, long chainstays on e-bikes are the design norm. This means slower steering, but it also increases comfort and high speed stability and may benefit climbing.

I do agree that aluminum is less comfortable than carbon but then there are tradeoffs involved there as well (cost and differences in frame failure).
 
Pretty cool that you were able to visit the Brooklyn shop. I would have liked to have been there to meet you, but I'm sure Lee treated you well. The Homage has been one of our most popular models so far this year. It's quite an awesome bike!

We sell these bikes throughout the US and we haven't had trouble supporting our customers. We keep parts in stock and we have gotten really good and knowing the issues which one might encounter. For the Bosch system, there is minimal maintenance required and there are Bosch dealers throughout the US that can help out in the rare instance you have trouble that can't be solved easily. Outside of that, we're talking about regular bike maintenance.

We would recommend you connect with a local shop which works on mountain bikes, they should be familiar with hydraulic brakes and suspension. Outside of that most of the maintenance is pretty straight forward. If you opt for the Rohloff hub, you'll need the maintenance kit to swap the oil but that's a really straightforward process and the guys in Brooklyn can help educate you about that.

Feel free to reach out anytime and I will be happy to assist!

Hey Chris, I just went back to Propel today and took out a Homage Rohloff to try again- around Ft Green Park and through some trails at Prospect Park. I placed my order with Lee today. It’ll be late June before my 49cm Kiox arrives and I hope to increase the size of my Brooklyn/NYC world! Love your shop and the easy service. Thanks for touching base. The Bklyn shop is a great place- the guys are helpful and friendly. Take care and keep up those videos with Court! Cheers!
 
Hey Chris, I just went back to Propel today and took out a Homage Rohloff to try again- around Ft Green Park and through some trails at Prospect Park. I placed my order with Lee today. It’ll be late June before my 49cm Kiox arrives and I hope to increase the size of my Brooklyn/NYC world! Love your shop and the easy service. Thanks for touching base. The Bklyn shop is a great place- the guys are helpful and friendly. Take care and keep up those videos with Court! Cheers!
Awesome! Thank you for your business! I’m really fortunate to have a great team in Brooklyn and they’re passionate about what they do which you really can’t beat.

I’m sure you’re going to love the Homage, it’s quickly becoming one of our most popular bikes this year.
 
Nancy and I went for our first ride, both riding Riese & Muller Homages, yesterday. She couldn't believe how comfortable and safe she felt. Nancy is no speed demon, cautious by nature and though athletic she is not physically bold. The evident safety and control resulting from a well tuned full suspension gave her the confidence to ride at a significantly faster pace than she had previously. She got the hang of shifting with the Rohloff within the first ten miles of the ride. We ended up riding 34 miles. This was her first ride since last fall. She was super pleased and loves her new ride.

20190324_131342.jpg
 
Nancy and I went for our first ride, both riding Riese & Muller Homages, yesterday. She couldn't believe how comfortable and safe she felt. Nancy is no speed demon, cautious by nature and though athletic she is not physically bold. The evident safety and control resulting from a well tuned full suspension gave her the confidence to ride at a significantly faster pace than she had previously. She got the hang of shifting with the Rohloff within the first ten miles of the ride. We ended up riding 34 miles. This was her first ride since last fall. She was super pleased and loves her new ride.

What mudguards are you both running on your bikes? They look well suited for front forks...

I'm really keen on the Giant Fathom E+ 2 Pro for a daily commuter and mudguards are the single biggest issue I have to get over. I want full wrap ones for commuting every day in winter where it might not be raining but the roads will be wet/damp with little stones and rocks and dirt from trucks.

Anyone have any suggestions?
 
What mudguards are you both running on your bikes? They look well suited for front forks...

I'm really keen on the Giant Fathom E+ 2 Pro for a daily commuter and mudguards are the single biggest issue I have to get over. I want full wrap ones for commuting every day in winter where it might not be raining but the roads will be wet/damp with little stones and rocks and dirt from trucks.

Anyone have any suggestions?

Those are SKS fenders, you’ll need to use them in conjunction with clamps from Cateye for the fork lowers and mounting to the bridge of the fork and the rear triangle can be a bit tricky. The above frames were made to accommodate fenders, but if you’re crafty I imaging you could make something work. Make sure you leave decent clearance though, as having fenders tight to the tire can be dabgerous if something gets caught.
 
The lower mud flaps I attached to the fenders on the 2019 Homage are made by Bibbia. Quite an easy install. 20190324_160627.jpg
 
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Those are SKS fenders, you’ll need to use them in conjunction with clamps from Cateye for the fork lowers and mounting to the bridge of the fork and the rear triangle can be a bit tricky. The above frames were made to accommodate fenders, but if you’re crafty I imaging you could make something work. Make sure you leave decent clearance though, as having fenders tight to the tire can be dabgerous if something gets caught.
Thanks Chris. Looks good. They look like these:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07HJ7TGSR

Do they rattle much?
 
Had anyone addressed the bobbing that occurs with full suspension? I know plenty of people who lock out their rear suspensions when commuting.

Bottom line, if youre on a budget, Id say a good hardtail with better components would be better for commuting than a cheaper (sub $2500) full suspension bike. Cheap rear suspensions won't add much besides additional weight and maintenance and might soak up some of your energy. On the other hand, if you're thinking of investing in a high end, full suspension rig, then youll feel the benefits of the super responsive rear shock while on the road.
 
One other issue I would see with suspension bikes (MTBs) is that the crankset is usually small for higher speed commute runs. The Giant Fathom E+ 2 Pro has a 36T compared to 42T on the Quick E+. Did a calc, and the difference is 36km/h versus 42km/h at 80rpm cadence. Then I've heard people go and fit a 48T on the Quick E+. It doesn't look like it can be enlargened too because the lower back wheel frame juts out really close to the cog.
 
I've two bosch cx MTBs, Cube 140mm FS and Trek Powerfly 7 HT setup with SKS mudguards and rack. Both bikes have dropper posts commuter tyres.

I've tried both bikes on same rough uphill track, with FS climbing speed was limited by power, with HT I had to back off power, as back wheel was bouncing all over place. A suspension seatpost wouldn't have helped here, but would make all difference for rider comfort at more moderate pace.
When comes to comfort and handling Cube leaves Trek HT for dead on and off road, both are running similar tyres and brakes. When comes to practical commuter/tourer the HT is better due to decent mudguards, 25kg rated rack, kickstand (must for commuter) and lower suspension maintenance. Still safe handling bike at speed.

With commuting I prefer dropperpost over suspension seatpost. Dropper is gives more control on downhill and is must for stop start traffic. Running tyres around 35-40psi helps smooth out ride.

If money was no problem, Homage with IGH would be my first choice for commuter/tourer, but well setup quality 29" HT makes for lot cheaper alternative.
 
What about holding the road better at speed? Ebikes can often hit and maintain 25-28mph. Would a full suspension function more like a motorcycle, giving conficence ar at speed in road, or the opposite? Maybe less secure and more bouncy?
 
A full suspension when set up properly keeps your tires in contact with the road through the bumps and flaws in the surface. This makes cornering more sure-footed and improves braking performance immensely. And yes, it is way kinder to your tush making longer distances more doable. The main thing about having a full suspension on a commuter is control and safety. Comfort comes in a distant third...we maybe not so distant but third nonetheless.
 
maybe I missed the point.. what's so bad about having suspension?
I bought a Vado 1.0 several months ago and I have put almost 2,000 miles on the bike. I sold my car a few weeks ago and enjoy the savings as well as the bike. Keeping in mind that I am almost 76 years old, my first choice was a full suspension commuter bike with fenders and a rack, but, the Reis-Moeller that I wanted was $10,000 dollars, and the Vado was $2,500 dollars. I bought the "stripped" version of the Vado because I had my own lights and horn. I added a rack and fenders. Probably because of the fenders, which are from Specialized, the bike is noisy on any kind of rough pavement or sidewalk, on which I ride in Scottsdale. Also, occasionally, I want to mountain bike, but the Vado is ill-equipped for such uses. I have a Body Float seat post, and it helps, and is way better than the Thudbuster that I had on my previous bike, but it is not nearly adequate and not suited at all for mountain biking. I like the concept of "one bike": commuting and mountain biking. I don't know why that an American company does not make such a bike. If I was younger, and not living on Social Security, I would definitely buy the RM. By the way, in the greater Phoenix area, with 5 million souls, there are no RM dealers. I would add, that the fear that i had that an ebike would lead to diminished conditioning have been allayed: sometimes, I don't even use the motor, particularly when there is even a mild downhill; i find that I don't need it. When I do use the motor, i almost always used the lowest level of assist, and my heartbeat has remained at 60, after several months of using the bike. But, when it is 113 degrees, or going up hill loaded with groceries, I use more boost. In sum, if you can afford it, I would go with a commuter bike with solidly mounted fenders and full-suspension. You don't want buyer's remorse. But, to echo what another person said, you may have different needs. For example, I ride on the sidewalk when there is no bike trail, and although the suspension that i do have keeps me from being jarred a lot, the noise is annoying.
 
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