CNBC: Why China Is Beating The U.S. In Electric Vehicles
- Thread starter Timpo
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Comfortably Numb
Well-Known Member
They're beating the U.S. in just about everything now. They just do stuff and don't initiate a Spanish inquisition every time in order to getting something real easy even started.
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jamesauto24
New Member
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- USA
all this is related to the environmental situation in the first place.
PedalUma
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- Petaluma, CA
China does not have the legacy of car culture holding them back from leaping ahead into an all electric future.
theemartymac
Well-Known Member
You can argue about policy and regulation all day, and it's certainly a factor, but there are two gigantic elephants that have to be considered.
1. China is 1 Billion people larger than the US (in roughly the same land mass). You can't discuss any sort of number without normalizing those numbers for population. The fact is the US will never again touch China for production capacity unless or until there is some sort of major economic shift or collapse. They are just too massive, and have huge capacity for earning and production as long as they can maintain supply chains and resources.
2. China is massively denser, which means infrastructure implementation is going to be more efficient. China's 50 largest cities are all well over 2 million people (The biggest is 30M), while the US only has 5 cities over 2 million and even NY is only 8M. Building charging infrastructure alone is going to see far better utilization than anywhere else. Here in Canada for example, we accept that road infrastructure is always going to be more costly per capita than much of the world as we have a tiny population vs our land mass and distances we need to support.
Now the fact that China is operating at 50 year old US levels of regulation and environmental protection are short term factors, but that is changing. You can't use that as an excuse anymore. The US simply needs to accept that they need to measure their success in relative terms. Even is the US rolled back it's EPA initiatives to post-war levels, they still can't catch the giant tiger. They just don't have the domestic capacity anymore, and the worlds tolerance for colonial action is shrinking by the year.
1. China is 1 Billion people larger than the US (in roughly the same land mass). You can't discuss any sort of number without normalizing those numbers for population. The fact is the US will never again touch China for production capacity unless or until there is some sort of major economic shift or collapse. They are just too massive, and have huge capacity for earning and production as long as they can maintain supply chains and resources.
2. China is massively denser, which means infrastructure implementation is going to be more efficient. China's 50 largest cities are all well over 2 million people (The biggest is 30M), while the US only has 5 cities over 2 million and even NY is only 8M. Building charging infrastructure alone is going to see far better utilization than anywhere else. Here in Canada for example, we accept that road infrastructure is always going to be more costly per capita than much of the world as we have a tiny population vs our land mass and distances we need to support.
Now the fact that China is operating at 50 year old US levels of regulation and environmental protection are short term factors, but that is changing. You can't use that as an excuse anymore. The US simply needs to accept that they need to measure their success in relative terms. Even is the US rolled back it's EPA initiatives to post-war levels, they still can't catch the giant tiger. They just don't have the domestic capacity anymore, and the worlds tolerance for colonial action is shrinking by the year.
In China the government funds small businesses such as the companies making hub motors and bike frames. In the USA there is crowd funding which is not effective by comparison. Bankers make a great deal of money in the U.S. sitting on their money and taking the 2% differential between the cost of money from the fed and providing it to large corporations and hedge funds. It is not just electric vehicles but all forms of transportation that are more advanced in China and of course in Europe as well. Want to ride a 200 mph train from one city to the next then you need to go to China or Japan or anywhere in Europe. Sad to say but when transportation is done entirely to maximize profits for a few investors the end result is a very inefficient system such as we have in the USA.
10 years ago I was in China and it was rare to see a ICE scooter on the streets. Everyone was riding electric scooters in major cities and they had special protected bike and scooter lanes separated from motor vehicle traffic. In Europe many places have streets and bridges that are for only pedestrians and bicyclists and one sees far more elderly people doing their shopping with bicycles.
10 years ago I was in China and it was rare to see a ICE scooter on the streets. Everyone was riding electric scooters in major cities and they had special protected bike and scooter lanes separated from motor vehicle traffic. In Europe many places have streets and bridges that are for only pedestrians and bicyclists and one sees far more elderly people doing their shopping with bicycles.
PedalUma
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- USA
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- Petaluma, CA
We could use more of this: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/24/nyregion/nyc-bridge-bike-pedestrians.html
Most of what we are getting in the eBike market comes from China's Special Economic Zones. https://transportgeography.org/cont...rnational-trade/special-economic-zones-china/
My battery reprehensive reached out to me overnight. They are hurting. No premium cells are available on the wholesale market. Do not believe the specifications of online only bikes and read the fine print. Those are not the cells they claim because the good ones do not exist at any price.
Most of what we are getting in the eBike market comes from China's Special Economic Zones. https://transportgeography.org/cont...rnational-trade/special-economic-zones-china/
My battery reprehensive reached out to me overnight. They are hurting. No premium cells are available on the wholesale market. Do not believe the specifications of online only bikes and read the fine print. Those are not the cells they claim because the good ones do not exist at any price.
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