Charging Ebikes on EV Charging stations

Thanks for all the info. For European riders Aliexpress sell Type2 (Mennekes) plug to 220-240VAC socket for about €30. Few different socket types to choose from.
Google "type2 to domestic socket"

I have 3 4A chargers and 3 batteries so that is 450wh an hour roughly across 3 batteries. Couple stops a day and I never need campground with power, but one with showers is must.
Hi,
Thanks a lot for your information. Would you please type for me for USA which adapter is the best regardless of the price to connect ebike regular plug to EV charging outlet?
Thank you
 
Hi,
Very grateful for you as it was one of the best ebike information I read. I have 2 questions please as follows:
1- Regardless of the money, for the fastest charging time, is there another faster connection, setup or hardware?

2- How much per KWH if will pay for the charging on average?
1. Speed depends on your bike charger, not on station. I used the fastest available for Bosch-powered ebikes, which is 6A and all the numbers are for this charger.
2. This was free station (up to 4 hours), so I paid nothing. You can calculate the cost yourself, but it still be very cheap since bike require just a fraction of what car will need.
 
1. Speed depends on your bike charger, not on station. I used the fastest available for Bosch-powered ebikes, which is 6A and all the numbers are for this charger.
2. This was free station (up to 4 hours), so I paid nothing. You can calculate the cost yourself, but it still be very cheap since bike require just a fraction of what car will need.
Hi,
Thanks a lot for your very fast response Mister.
Have a great day
 
As long as signs say EV (Electric Vehicle) charging you have as much rights as electric car owner to use charger. Sooner or later you will endup debating this point with driver that wants to use charger bay you are occupying.
 
As long as signs say EV (Electric Vehicle) charging you have as much rights as electric car owner to use charger. Sooner or later you will endup debating this point with driver that wants to use charger bay you are occupying.
I've already witnessed such an altercation. I left before the shouting match escalated. I did hear the car owner say he was going to call the police. It would have been interesting so see what the cops had to say but I didn't have time to hang around.

Another issue I've found is there are several types of plugs used on US charging stations. Most EV's carry adapters but it gets bulky to carry these on an ebike. Carrying one or two chargers, a cube tap and extension cord is also a hassle.

I hope the designers of these charging stations will eventually get wise and put a simple 110V outlet on the side of the cabinet. This would eliminate any conflict with EV owners.

Personally, I would rather carry spare batteries instead of the necessary charging paraphernalia. I generally carry enough juice to get me 100 miles or so, which is more than I usually ride in a day. The places I stay allow me to bring the bike inside and recharge in room.
 
1- Regardless of the money, for the fastest charging time, is there another faster connection, setup or hardware?
It has nothing to do with the mains plugin. Its the charger that will dictate speed. You have to know what you are doing to crank that up. Your typical tiny bullet battery plug on say a Hailong-style case is going to be safe up to about 3 amps, tops. Thats got a lot to do with why you see mostly 2 amp chargers on the open market. If you want to pump more amps (current) into a battery, you need more robust connectors. This is why you see custom battery packs using 10-12 gauge wiring on the charge port, and XT60 connectors. They can take anything you can realistically throw at them.

Once you get past the connectors to the battery, in order for a battery to take a lot of amps, it has to be a big pack. Frankly... bigger than most of the packs on the market. 20ah+ before you start thinking about pumping in a lot of amps (lets arbitrarily say 5 amps) to it.

OK so you took care of the battery side. Now what are you going to use for a charger? It better be powerful. A 52v battery getting 5a pumped into it comes out to... 58.8v * 5a = 294w. So your charger needs to be rated for about 300w (if it has CC+CV modes, which is smart charging, the charge rate decreases as it gets to target voltage so 300w is not as close to the line as it seems). 300w is a lot. BUT there are devices commonly used to make weatherproof, adjustable chargers that are this powerful and then some. Read this and focus in on the HLG-320H-54A.


I also own an HLG-480H-54A which is good for 8a of current to a 52v battery. But I only use it on a bike that genuinely needs fast charging, and its hooked up to a 32ah pack that can absorb that kind of punishment. Speaking of punishment... If you fast-charge, you burn down your battery's life. High charge rates = high heat and heat kills battery packs. So thats one more thing for you to consider if you think fast charging is a great idea.

I am building this bike right now (leaving to work on it in a few minutes, in fact). You see a 35ah 21700 pack in the rear box. The front box has in the very front a 25a controller for the front motor, and at the rear thats an HLG-185H-54A... only a 3a charger. But its WAY less heavy than the next step up 320w unit that I also have a spare of. This will be a permanently affixed onboard charger permanently connected to the battery and sealed up under a floor panel. I have decided 3a is enough on this daily driver bike that has a battery that is unlikely to need a top-up on any given day of commuting and shopping activity. I have the room to do a bigger charger but its too much of a good thing.

20230110_153359 (1).jpg


That pic is in fact an early test fit and the front 'hat channel' has since had sides put on to make it a box, gotten coats of paint and primer etc. etc.

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Moral of the story is stay away from fast charging unless you know exactly what you are doing and build your bike's components to handle it from the start.

 
The information on my battery charger for the Wart Hog MD 750 bike is this:
F300 Battery Charger
I can use use either 110V or 220VAC, 50/60HZ, 6A
(has a switch to change voltage)
Output 54.6v @5A For Li-ion Battery only.
Has a 3 pin plug for either the batteries or bike,
I can charge both battery's thru the bike.

If I am out in BFE, and I need to charge my batteries,
I will use the EV charging station
and the car can wait, just like I would wait for it next in line.

Around here it is often 50-110 miles to the nearest location that may has power,
I just checked and almost all the towns across Nevada have a EV charging station,
some have a couple of different types on I-80 or Hwy 50, all other places are sol,
once you get away from the main travel routes, that goes for gas and Diesel fuels also.
YMMV,
Tia,
Don
 
This has nothing to do with road transportation or convenient parking lot racks for bikes. It has everything to do with "fueling" electric cars. The infrastructure concerning charging stations is designed for large motor vehicles needing 7kWh EVSE, not bicycles.

And don't give me that BS that you can't find a 120v outlet anywhere. They are everywhere, in every building, and every gas station, every home, and every convenience store/public building/fast food place. Common outlets have been everywhere since the 1930s. If you ask to use an outlet in a business you may well find you are welcome to do so. You could easily stop in at a local library or community center to use their 120v outlets with no problem at all. Relax and read a book, or send emails, while you wait.

Level 2 public EVSE stations for EVs , on the other hand, are still few and far between as society is still in the adoptive stage for electric cars (except for Tesla), and rollout for providing the energy needs to fuel electric cars beyond home charging is trying to catch up. They are expensive to put in place, need to be 220-240 to provide the 7kWh current required by an EV, and placed in car centric locations for this very reason.

Just because you "discovered" a hack to tap into this new "free energy" source allocated for motor vehicles doesn't give you the right to do so. Charge your bike from the correct 120v common outlet that your bike battery has been designed to use. Be considerate, and stop being the jerk that deliberately hogs a resource not meant for you or your bike. All you are doing is encouraging more "reasons" to automobile owners hating cyclists as "entitled brats" even more than we are hated now.
A little history might help get some perspective here: In the early automobile days, the distribution of gasoline was very limited. For a while, you would get gas by the can from a general store. It took quite a while for gas stations to become ubiquitous. Now, you can sometimes find them on all four corners of any busy intersection--all different competing brands of course.

One advantage the ICE engine still has is the very quick refueling time--a matter of minutes, at most. The slow recharge time of batteries is going to be a limiting factor in the transition to EVs. I frankly can't see how this can be mitigated. New technology allowing much quicker charging, maybe? Or even battery swap-out, where you trade your depleted battery for a fresh one (like when buying welding gas--you may buy a brand new (empty) tank, but when you swap it for a full tank, you may get a well-used one). This might actually be a feasible solution, but for the problem of safely handling high voltage batteries. So I'm picturing stations staffed by trained individuals who make a living doing this (as in Oregon which still requires that station personnel refill your tank--no self-serve like the rest of the world). Your depleted battery could be charged up at the station, or even sent to a regional location for large scale recharging and battery testing and maintenance. I'm assuming you would get credit for any remaining charge in your battery.

You would, of course, still be able to charge up at home.
 
You're right - the speed at which a gas tank can be filled vs the current speed of battery charging for equal miles is still heavily in favor of the ICE. On the flip side, Level 3 fast charging isn't the sole means of replenishing the battery. Level 2, aka - charging from home when the EV is parked and not being used - is by far (over 80% according to some sources while my personal estimate is well over 90%) the primary means of refueling. So unlike a gas car that has to be driven to a regulated gas station, maybe having to wait in line until a gas pump is available, then fueled, then driven back home, the EV is simply parked in the garage, plugged in, and charges while the owner goes about their day. Effectively zero waiting time. Your car recharges on its own without needing you there. Can't do that with a gasoline car. My cars (I currently own 2 EVs) both are set to automatically charge starting at midnight while I'm sleeping. I do plug them in to start recharging when I arrive back home after using them, with the timed late-at-night charging a fail-safe backup.

Now, about Level 3. This high speed charge is rarely used except for long distance driving. Say, distances beyond a 200 mile radius. Speaking from my own history as a new EV owner of almost 5 years who did not buy a Tesla with it's already well established fast charging infrastructure at the time, my car's Level 3 charging rate was set at a maximum of 50kW (20 minutes from 30% to 90%) so if I was on a trip I did have to build recharging time into my travel plans, especially as my range was only 150 miles per charge. My new EV can accept a charge at 3x my older EV's speed, and has 2x the range. The new charging stations being designed and built in high traffic areas can charge up to 350kW, and the new EVs coming out are being designed with batteries that can take that speed, well reducing the time spent to Level 3 charge to close the time gap based on refilling a gas car.

The Level 3 charger, which usually cost to recharge but can be found free in some cases, is for long distance trips. The Level 2 is at home or for leisure trips, are everywhere nowadays, and almost always free out in the public arena at the present time.

Just like your historical example of the early days of the ICE (which needed Rockefeller and his Standard Oil company to finance Henry Ford to mass produce an ICE in order to have a market for the fuel) when the fuel was only found at pharmacies in limited supply, time was required for the gasoline infrastructure to catch up with demand. EVs back in the early 1900s - much beloved by women because there was no engine to be cranked, didn't require noxious fuel, were quiet and didn't spew smelly smoke, and were charged at home - had their range limited by lack of infrastructure outside the home as well. Technology favored the ICE when the starter was finally designed for the gas car and regular fueling stations were built, at which point the ICE took off, outdistancing the EV in both range and speed of refueling, and sales.

The EV is now catching up thanks to technology that is being designed for other products, and by happy circumstances being the boon needed to bring EVs back to the fore. A Level 4 charging speed is already underway, which will bring the EVs capable of accepting that ultra high speed charge to a point where they will equal or surpass the speed it takes to fill a tank of gas.

As for battery swapping? It was a very early idea among other very early ideas that was scrapped for its unweildy complexity and market constraints. It was also based on the concept of the ICE gas stations - having to go somewhere to refuel. Increasing battery capacity and increasing speed of recharging every year just makes the idea of swapping out batteries a no-go, not feasible economically even in the industrial world for commercial trucks and transports. So visions of battery swapping stations is something fun to bounce around in one's head, but will not exist in real life for the EV owner or for the EV manufacturer. Battery technology is already light years ahead in recharging capabilities and gaining speed even as we speak. If the industry can finally find a way to make the solid state battery viable, you're going to have a front row seat to a virtual explosion forward in the transportation industry in charging speed as well as lighter, smaller, more compact batteries

I agree we are in the early transition days. But this is fun to watch, and to take part in the transition. Everyone is going to have a tipping point at what they'll accept to make the switch to electric. If you make long distance trips over 300 miles a day, every day, then maybe you'll want to wait for an EV capable of Level 4 charging and a 600 mile range. But if you are among the majority who do less than 200 miles a day, every day, then the ability to park your car at home, plug it in, and go about your day while your car quietly charges on its own without you being there, and presents you with a 100% recharged battery the next day, the overwhelming advantages of an EV can't be ignored.

We have a unique opportunity to watch a fascinating change to our transportation era's move forward into a new decade. Why keep mucking out the stall while claiming the horse is the better technology? Give it a fond pat on the head, and hang up the pitchfork. In one more decade your old hot rod is going to be outnumbered on the road and gasoline fueling stations a dying industry.

Ask yourself- at what point will you be joining the new technology and retiring the old? When you can fill a battery at the same time frame as having to drive to a gas station, fuel up, and drive back home? Or when you see others having been freed of that constraint by charging from home every day without having to attend to the car, presented with a new "tankful" of juice in their EV overnight while while they slept in bed?

It takes a new mindset and a new way of looking at a car. I know it's scary. I have a lot of people approach me when I'm charging at the free Level 2 at our local grocery store, and I do listen to their worries and fears about transitioning. It's very hard to go from what we know and accept to something new, different, and unknown. We've lived a lifetime with what we know, and what our parents knew (grandparents are iffy depending upon when they were born), and we cling to the familiar. Not going to throw shade on that. But do keep an open mind on the reality of what's happening, and how it's happening. Sooner than you think that change will become part of your everyday life, and that of everyone around you.
 
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Thanks. That's interesting and informative. Excellent.

I'd be interested in reading your views on EV battery longevity, any issues relating to recycling and the cost of replacement batteries.

Peter
 
Thanks @Readytoride, that was very interesting. Just for the sake of argument, here are my concerns:

The US has plenty of oil but no lithium. Should we be concerned about the world lithium supply and what countries control it?
Are we banking too heavily on the hopes battery & charging technology will improve, using more common materials?
Is our generating capacity & grid up to handling the increased load without having to burn more fossil fuels?
Will an EV transportation system fail completely during a widespread disaster? Oil can be transported to these areas by pipeline or truck. Electricity cannot without a grid.

A slow evolution toward an EV based transportation system is a good thing but rushing it may not be in our best interest until the above questions are answered.
 
Thanks @Readytoride, that was very interesting. Just for the sake of argument, here are my concerns:

The US has plenty of oil but no lithium. Should we be concerned about the world lithium supply and what countries control it?
Are we banking too heavily on the hopes battery & charging technology will improve, using more common materials?
Is our generating capacity & grid up to handling the increased load without having to burn more fossil fuels?
Will an EV transportation system fail completely during a widespread disaster? Oil can be transported to these areas by pipeline or truck. Electricity cannot without a grid.

A slow evolution toward an EV based transportation system is a good thing but rushing it may not be in our best interest until the above questions are answered.
My thoughts (and experiences - I'm an old lady but love technology so factor that in. 😁)

1. The US has been "exploring" homegrown lithium reserves for years since the lithium technology came out on top in the fastest/strongest/highest charging capability race in the past few decades. The western state of Nevada currently has discovered it has one of the biggest reserves in the world (Thacker Pass Lithium Mine). Supposedly it's the 3rd largest in the world. At the moment the current "mining" in the US comprises 3.8% worldwide production, but that number is growing. So no concerns for the future production or being held captive by other countries that could throttle the supply chain.

2. Honestly speaking, I regard lithium the same as I regard whale oil for lamps, or colbalt batteries. It's a transitory technology, a stop-gap. On top today, and not the leader tomorrow. I hear the battery industry is heavily banking on the development of high density solid state batteries which use a solid electrolyte rather than a liquid electrolyte (lithium). Easier to build, cheaper, lighter, faster to charge, and no rare earth materials. I'd say a decade or so more research and development is needed, but seeing how NASA is as deeply invested as they are, there is no doubt it will be a reality before long.

3. Unlike oil which relies 100% on finite resources, electricity has a broad range of essentially free infinite sources: wind, solar, ocean water tides. The progress in utilizing battery technology for transportation is being matched by advances in the solar industry in increasing the efficiency of solar collecting panels. There isn't a single household that can drill on its own property for oil, pump it, refine it at home, and use it in their vehicles or furnances, etc. There are, however, thousands of residences worldwide whose numbers are increasing every day building their own "power plants" of solar, wind, or water. Last year we put in a solar array that is producing enough energy to happily supply not only our house with all of its electrical needs, but both of our electric cars. My goal down the road is to eventually have batteries to store our solar electric, rather than feeding it back into the grid and taking it back in the quantities we need while letting the grid hold on to our excess until we need it. It's called NetZero, and cost is virtually a $7 a month connection fee, and no cost whatsoever for the Grid to hold our power and feed it back to us when we want it. Payback to the Grid is their ability to claim our "green power" as part of the fossil fuel reduction initiatives (and heafy fines for non-compliance) being instituted by the governments on utility electricity generation. It's a win-win for all of us - me, the utility, and the government.

Now, do I belive NetZero to be sustainable as more and more residences and industries start producing their own power? No, I think in the long run that the Grid is going to have to start charging more for their services as a middleman. It just stands to reason, economically speaking, because homegrown electricity is almost impossible to maintain on a steady state basis which is what the Grid was developed to do with generators that run 24/7. They never stopped the generators because of a number of factors. You can Google why they don't, so I don't have to make this thread an endless one. The drawbacks to green technology are: sun only shines during the day, and the wind blows when the wind feels like it. The only constant would be ocean tides which are 24/7 but the technology to capture is limited to available waters. Even hydropower on a small basis using streams is still subject to weather variations such as winter and droughts. A big Grid issue, not quite for a single entity.

So that brings us back to how to sustain a steady stream of electricity needed under inconsistent sources. Batteries are the answer. More energy condensed, and Iighter/faster/cheaper/maintainable without maintenance for decades, etc. Hence the worldwide push to find that "golden egg" already freely available without having to feed and house and protect the goose.

5. No. Not to the extent that an oil crisis would have in crippling us. As more and more businesses and residences build battery capability into their solar and wind collection systems, the less any regional or country wide areas will suffer from outages. Read up on the solar community of Babcock Ranch near Ft Meyers after Hurricane Ian devastated that area of Florida. They not only stayed up and running with all their electricity but managed to mitigate a lot of the damage that hurricanes habitually inflict on unprepared communities.

6. Not only can electricity be produced and available without the necessity of a corporate utility, but it also allows us the freedom that we don't have right now since we are tied to a corporate entity that dictates how much we are allowed to use, and how much they charge us to use it. If you think about oil as something that merely has to be trucked in, you're forgetting about it having to surmount roads that have been destroyed, ports of call that have been ravaged and unable to support tanker ships, and critical distribution points along the way to feed stations that might have been completely wiped out with no other means of people getting fuel for fossil- fuel-based implements.

Considering that we live in a global economic community, and everything we do now is really based upon corporations and businesses and industries that operate worldwide with a distribution chain that extends around the world, do you think you'd be happier with having some solar panels on your roof, making you electricity that you can store in your own batteries, and having that support your lifestyle? Personally, I would. If anything, I hate the chain that industry has around our neck for our everyday lives for the rest of our lives. I'm ready for a little freedom. And if the sun is free, I'm in there for all I can grab.

More thoughts to come but I'm running late so will expand on this later.

And thanks for listening. Loving your collective feedback and questions.

PS : disclaimer : over 30 years of writing articles for national magazines on the days of horses and carriages as transportation and sport, and endless hours researching in centuries old crumbling magazines, dusty books and periodicals for the then current observations written during the very heyday of those horse powered eras. So I'm well versed in the history of our world before the combustion engine and electric made the horse and oxen supplied power a foot note rather then the headline it was once.
 
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I'd be interested in reading your views on EV battery longevity, any issues relating to recycling and the cost of replacement batteries.

Peter
At the current state of development, a properly maintained EV battery that has been protected via thermal management from hot climate conditions will easily last 300,000 miles or more without any need for maintenance. Unlike a car engine which historically degrades from use and time (ie things rusting out, seizing due to disuse, leaking gaskets, etc), the EV battery nemesis is simply Time. Used or stationary, the ticking clock is what sips the life from battery cells. As the individual cells age they are less capable of holding a charge 100%, and as a result the range for the EV diminishes. Thankfully, like an ICE engine that can be brought back to useful life via new parts, so can a battery. The cells packed inside the battery containment can be switched out with minimal effort, restoring the original range. EV battery compartments are one complete unit like a suitcase, designed to be dropped out of the chassis fairly quickly, opened like that suitcase, and the cells need to be replaced can be pulled out and replaced with new.

I do know a full replacement battery for a Nissan Leaf is covered under warranty for 8 years or 100,000 miles, and used to cost $8k. From what I hear now it now costs from $10k-$12k because only the newer tech 40kWh and 60kWh batteries are being used as replacements. The original 24kwh and 30kWh Leaf batteries are no longer being produced.

As far as the old batteries that are starting to trickle on the aftermarket now, there is already a number of Industries starting up in the solar and stored power arena finding these old car batteries to be a very useful product for recycling and reuse for purposes other than an EV. Nothing is going into a landfill. Trust me! I already know of four businesses around me that are constantly on the look for old outdated Leafs in order to cash in on the batteries. The two original size batteries (24 And 30) are perfect for home solar power containment especially since the fast charging port is both DC and bi-directional. Waaaay cheaper than a Tesla powerwall, and with bigger capacity. I have a friend scouting for a 25 or 30kw for me for my house. He's been telling me it is near impossible to find one because these batteries are lasting forever and when they come on the market they are being snapped up immediately. I'm still keeping my fingers crossed I can find one. I am giving my 40kWh Leaf to my son who is very anxious to get it, but with the caveat that he cannot sell it, and has to give it back to me at the end of its useful life so I can pull the battery to use for solar storage. He's already told me that he plans the same thing for when he gets solar on his place. I can see it now - we're going to be fighting over who gets the battery in the car. 🙃
 
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