Change gearing on Vado

D

digibud

New Member
I am considering a Vado 5.0. I don't need or want a downhill full suspension bike but I do need very low gearing for the long steep hills I climb. I am 69yrs old and weigh in around 230 so my favorite ride is about 35mi with 3500 feet of climbing and for me it's a challenge with a lot of 7-8% and some short stretches of 13% on mediocre dirt roads. No single track. The SL configuration with a booster battery looks perfect but I would need a smaller chain ring and bigger cogs in the rear. I have no idea of the motor is "locked" into the existing chain ring size or if I can customize the drive train in the same manner I would on a non-electric bike. My current bike is a high end carbon bike with no forks or suspension and is geared very low for some of the 13% (short) grades that I could barely make before some issues have developed with my foot. I think electric is potentially a great addition but many bikes come in at 50lb which is shocking thus the SL. I don't know what the extra battery weighs...or if I'd need it...but all bets are off if I can't customize the gearing. Thoughts?
 
Digibud,
The Vado SL has too low torque (and too low assistance) to consider it for serious climbing if you are not extremely fit. The Vado 5.0 would be a good choice with some restrictions.

The Specialized 1.3 (Brose S) motor found in Vado 5.0 is a monster. It will give you up to 550 W peak power and 90 Nm torque, making it one of the strongest mid-drive e-bike motors in the class (I don't talk about Chinese cr*p). I assume your favourite ride does not consist of only climbs. Rest assured you might cover your 35 mi/3500 elevation gain route with Vado 5.0. When you are about to ride up the steepest climb, you just switch the assistance to Turbo and the Vado would take you up the hill with the flying colours, so strong the motor is. On easier climbs, the Sport mode might do, and you'd be riding downhill either by not pedalling or with the assistance Off to conserve the battery charge. (There are options in the Mission Control app to tune the assistance the way your route would be completed on a single battery charge as well).

As I have said, there are some restrictions.

Vado 5.0 has been designed for speed, not for climbing. Therefore, it sports a 48T chainring and 11-42T cassette. The simplest mod would be replacing the cassette with the Shimano Deore XT CS-M8000, which is 11-46T, 11 speed one. That would change your lowest gearing from 1.14 to 1.04. You could also try the Sunrace MX 80 11-50t 11-speed cassette, giving you the granny gear ratio of 0.96. @Sierratim, thoughts?

There is worse situation with the chainring. There is a large thread about chainring replacement in the Specialized forum here. It is not so easy to find a proper replacement chainring, although it is doable. Ironically, Vado 4.0 (that would be not the best for your specific needs) comes with a 40T chainring.

Tyres! The 5.0 comes now with the Trigger Sport 47-622 tyres. If you consider riding dirt roads, the stock tyres might not do their job well. Vado 5.0 accepts up to 2" tyres but only slick ones. You could try 47-622 tyres designed for (potentially) high speed and with a good offroad grip such as Continental Top Contact II -- in case you find the stock tyres not performing well on your rides.

If the 5.0 is available in your area, go for it. It is a fantastic e-bike. The problem is there is limited availability of e-bikes nowadays and it is hard to even suggest options other than the Vado 5.0 today.

I think other users will also contribute.
 
Last edited:
Stefan Mikes said:
Digibud,
The Vado SL has too low torque (and too low assistance) to consider it for serious climbing if you are not extremely fit. The Vado 5.0 would be a good choice with some restrictions.

The Specialized 1.3 (Brose S) motor found in Vado 5.0 is a monster. It will give you up to 550 W peak power and 90 Nm torque, making it one of the strongest mid-drive e-bike motors in the class (I don't talk about Chinese cr*p). I assume your favourite ride does not consist of only climbs. Rest assured you might cover your 35 mi/3500 elevation gain route with Vado 5.0. When you are about to ride up the steepest climb, you just switch the assistance to Turbo and the Vado would take you up the hill with the flying colours, so strong the motor is. On easier climbs, the Sport mode might do, and you'd be riding downhill either by not pedalling or with the assistance Off to conserve the battery charge. (There are options in the Mission Control app to tune the assistance the way your route would be completed on a single battery charge as well).

As I have said, there are some restrictions.

Vado 5.0 has been designed for speed, not for climbing. Therefore, it sports a 48T chainring and 11-42T cassette. The simplest mod would be replacing the cassette with the Shimano Deore XT CS-M8000, which is 11-46T, 11 speed one. That would change your lowest gearing from 1.14 to 1.04. You could also try the Sunrace MX 80 11-50t 11-speed cassette, giving you the granny gear ratio of 0.96. @Sierratim, thoughts?

There is worse situation with the chainring. There is a large thread about chainring replacement in the Specialized forum here. It is not so easy to find a proper replacement chainring, although it is doable. Ironically, Vado 4.0 (that would be not the best for your specific needs) comes with a 40T chainring.

Tyres! The 5.0 comes now with the Trigger Sport 47-622 tyres. If you consider riding dirt roads, the stock tyres might not do their job well. Vado 5.0 accepts up to 2" tyres but only slick ones. You could try 47-622 tyres designed for (potentially) high speed and with a good offroad grip such as Continental Top Contact II -- in case you find the stock tyres not performing well on your rides.

If the 5.0 is available in your area, go for it. It is a fantastic e-bike. The problem is there is limited availability of e-bikes nowadays and it is hard to even suggest options other than the Vado 5.0 today.

I think other users will also contribute.
Click to expand...
thanks...I look forward to anyone else's thoughts on this
 
You could also look here:
electricbikereview.com

Chain ring tooth selection

I am slowly changing various components on my Vado 4 to suit my personal situation - having changed the tyres, the grips and the seatpost so far. I have noticed that I am only using the smallest 3 cogs on the cassette, and I would rather be operating a couple of cogs up from that - the...
electricbikereview.com electricbikereview.com

Just ask the question how difficult it is to replace the 48t Vado chainring with the 40t or 44t there. You'll find a great response there.
 
A smaller front chainring may be the simpler upgrade. It would require shortening the existing chain whereas the larger cassette would require a new longer chain. 10/11sp chains greater than 118links are hard to find imho. You'll lose top end speed but hills are your thing so gear accordingly and spin out on the descents and recover. I use a 38x11 top gear on my 1x gravel bike and spin out at about 30-31 mph with similar size tires as the Vado.

Praxis Works doesn't list the chainring on their website but I suggest asking them if they can source you a smaller chainring. Your dealer should be able to get one also and maybe even the stock ring guard of the other Vado models to keep your pant leg clean. The BCD of the ring is 108 I believe which is common but I think it needs to be threaded as there's little clearance for traditional nut on the inboard side of the chainring.

Don't worry too much about the bike weight when riding. With a motor it will more than compensate. You will feel like you have superpowers! Maintenance and transport by car or truck is when you'll notice the heft as it can be hard to lift.

-bryceu, Vado 4.0 and 5 more non-assist bikes (n+1)
 
As @Stefan Mikes suggests, the Vado SL won't have the torque or range you're looking for, the Vado 5 will. I'm in my 70s and ride a Vado 5 in a very hilly little town. With its standard gearing there's no local hill it won't climb. I've never used the smallest cogs so I've never felt a need to change any gearing. I get ~35 miles per charge on our hilly terrain though my typical ride has a bit less than 3500 of elevation gain. I have to admit that I like to ride fast so I do use Turbo assist more than necessary...😎 My wife rides more conservatively and gets better range.

As to changing gearing, changing out the cassette is the easiest approach. The chainring is a bit more of a challenge than it would seem, compounded by a shortage of compatible supply. Be sure to checkout the link Stefan provided on this if you're seriously considering it.

As Stefan suggested, the Sunrace MX 80 11-50t 11-speed is a good choice for a new cassette. I use the 10 speed version of this on my mech bike. You will need to add a link or two to your chain. My Vado was equipped with a Shimano chain without a master link. This makes adding links more complicated, but since Shimano now offers master links for their 11-speed chains, it is doable. If you use 11-speed chains in your shop you can 'borrow' the links you need. Otherwise I'd suggest checking with your LBS. They sometimes have 'sacraficial' chains they use for this same purpose. When reinstalling the lengthened chain be sure to observe the color coded detail on the inside of the chainring to match the chain links to the chainring's wide/narrow teeth. The derailleur may need a minor adjustment to be sure it clears the bigger cog on the cassette. Run the chain though all the cogs when it's on your workstand just to be sure.

You might be able to get the bike shop to do a cassette change out gratis as a part of your purchase. Doesn't hurt to ask...😉
 
Stefan Mikes said:
Digibud,
The Vado SL has too low torque (and too low assistance) to consider it for serious climbing if you are not extremely fit. The Vado 5.0 would be a good choice with some restrictions.

The Specialized 1.3 (Brose S) motor found in Vado 5.0 is a monster. It will give you up to 550 W peak power and 90 Nm torque, making it one of the strongest mid-drive e-bike motors in the class (I don't talk about Chinese cr*p). I assume your favourite ride does not consist of only climbs. Rest assured you might cover your 35 mi/3500 elevation gain route with Vado 5.0. When you are about to ride up the steepest climb, you just switch the assistance to Turbo and the Vado would take you up the hill with the flying colours, so strong the motor is. On easier climbs, the Sport mode might do, and you'd be riding downhill either by not pedalling or with the assistance Off to conserve the battery charge. (There are options in the Mission Control app to tune the assistance the way your route would be completed on a single battery charge as well).

As I have said, there are some restrictions.

Vado 5.0 has been designed for speed, not for climbing. Therefore, it sports a 48T chainring and 11-42T cassette. The simplest mod would be replacing the cassette with the Shimano Deore XT CS-M8000, which is 11-46T, 11 speed one. That would change your lowest gearing from 1.14 to 1.04. You could also try the Sunrace MX 80 11-50t 11-speed cassette, giving you the granny gear ratio of 0.96. @Sierratim, thoughts?

There is worse situation with the chainring. There is a large thread about chainring replacement in the Specialized forum here. It is not so easy to find a proper replacement chainring, although it is doable. Ironically, Vado 4.0 (that would be not the best for your specific needs) comes with a 40T chainring.

Tyres! The 5.0 comes now with the Trigger Sport 47-622 tyres. If you consider riding dirt roads, the stock tyres might not do their job well. Vado 5.0 accepts up to 2" tyres but only slick ones. You could try 47-622 tyres designed for (potentially) high speed and with a good offroad grip such as Continental Top Contact II -- in case you find the stock tyres not performing well on your rides.

If the 5.0 is available in your area, go for it. It is a fantastic e-bike. The problem is there is limited availability of e-bikes nowadays and it is hard to even suggest options other than the Vado 5.0 today.

I think other users will also contribute.
Click to expand...
Well said. As the owner of Vado 5 (second ebike I have owned), I agree with every word @Stefan Mikes has said.
Enjoy it if you get it. Don’t change anything in the bike unless you absolutely have to. Specialized have thought about almost everything.
 
Marcela said:
Don’t think you’ll be happy with the SL, not enough grunt. Listen to Stefan. I’ve been up some pretty steep grades with nonSL 5.0 with 48t at 190#.
Click to expand...
I'm realizing the Levo may be a better option. The problem is the center triangle is so small it's hard to carry the gear I need for a 5 hour ride including warm weather clothing, rain gear, three water bottles, etc. I may have to use a bag attached to my handlebar. This bike would be for Denali Park and there are no services (often no people at all) on many of my rides. I have to be fully self contained and ready for warm, cool, cold or rainy weather as well as emergency break-downs. It can be a fair bit of gear. I would prefer the Vado shape and don't need the suspension -at all- but as I get older I need some assist. The Vado alone may do it...and would allow me to carry more...tough call. My current ride is my Corvus carbon fat bike with 27.5 mtn bike tires. Light...roomy... I want a vado with a levo engine!
 

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Vado 5.0 has the same motor as previous MYs of the Levo... The 1.3 is the Brose S, the MTB motor. The current Levo uses the 2.1, which is the Brose S made of magnesium. The 1.3 is made of aluminum. Both motors perform identically! So indeed, Vado 5 has the Levo motor...
 
digibud said:
I'm realizing the Levo may be a better option. The problem is the center triangle is so small it's hard to carry the gear I need for a 5 hour ride including warm weather clothing, rain gear, three water bottles, etc. I may have to use a bag attached to my handlebar. This bike would be for Denali Park and there are no services (often no people at all) on many of my rides. I have to be fully self contained and ready for warm, cool, cold or rainy weather as well as emergency break-downs. It can be a fair bit of gear. I would prefer the Vado shape and don't need the suspension -at all- but as I get older I need some assist. The Vado alone may do it...and would allow me to carry more...tough call. My current ride is my Corvus carbon fat bike with 27.5 mtn bike tires. Light...roomy... I want a vado with a levo engine!
Click to expand...
I've got my Vado equipped with bags that total 66L. Plenty of capacity for a multi-day trip.

20200218_135754.jpg



I think I've mentioned this before, but my approach to riding in the snow is the Florida Keys...😎
 
Hi all, sorry to dig up an old thread. I have a Vado 4.0 and I'd like to put the 48T Vado 5.0 chainring on. I cannot find the right parts online and was wondering if anyone could let me know the chainring part number and chainring cover. I gather I also need a longer chain. Thank you.
 
The chainring part number is S211400005. "CHR VADO, PRAXIS 48T, 104BCD, SINGLE WAVE STYLE 10/11 SPEED, W/ BOLTS". I cannot help you with the chainring cover though.

You will need a 130 or 132 link chain. Meaning you need to buy a 138 link e-bike chain for the proper number of speeds (cassette sprockets) and shorten it. Shimano or KMC make such long chains.

If you accept no chainring cover (as I do), please have a look at Garbaruk chainrings, 104 BCD, 4 bolt holes. These are very high quality chainrings. However, you will also need four 8x8 mm MTB chainring bolts and a Park Tool CNW-2 wrench. Deckas chainrings are less expensive.
 
I’ve been riding my Vado 5.0 SL as a gravel bike, and consider it perfect for me except for the lack of torque on long, steep uphills (and the telltale motor whine). Assuming I could source a motor, is it possible/practical to retrofit a 1.3 or 2.1 into the SL?
 
Setubalense said:
I’ve been riding my Vado 5.0 SL as a gravel bike, and consider it perfect for me except for the lack of torque on long, steep uphills (and the telltale motor whine). Assuming I could source a motor, is it possible/practical to retrofit a 1.3 or 2.1 into the SL?
Click to expand...
Not doable at all. A different shape and size, different battery/voltage and a different controller.
 
Setubalense said:
Thanks, Stefan. That was my prediction, but you can’t fault a guy for dreaming. If the 5.0 had just a little more power it would be an amazing machine.
Click to expand...
Out of curiosity: Does the SL Turbo mode combined with a low gear take you through your hills?
 
It definitely does, but I have not yet done any mountain riding that requires ascents of 500+ m, one after the other. Especially since low gear is quite low, I encounter few hills that I can’t climb. My biggest complaint is that low gear requires a very high cadence to achieve satisfactory speed and motor efficiency, and that is no fun on a long hill. A slightly smaller chainring would improve climbing ability even more, theoretically at the cost of top end speed (not really a concern), but it would compound the “insane cadence” problem. It’s also tough to come up off the seat and shift my weight forward while peddling so fast. My friends with more torque at their disposal always leave me behind on the uphills.
 
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